God calls a murderer to preach? - Prisonchaplain

[prisonchaplain]

No, no, no! I did not murder anyone!

Rather, I recently was guest speaker at my home church. The topic "Forgiving Your Enemies," includes the story of a convicted first degree murderer who became pastor of a large church, and also a presbyter (similar to a Stake President).

Comments are tolerated and kudos always welcomed!

Assemblies of God Online Sermons and Podcasts | Angle Lake Neighborhood Church | Angle Lake Neighborhood Church

[GeneC]

No, no, no! I did not murder anyone!

Rather, I recently was guest speaker at my home church. The topic "Forgiving Your Enemies," includes the story of a convicted first degree murderer who became pastor of a large church, and also a presbyter (similar to a Stake President).

Comments are tolerated and kudos always welcomed!

Assemblies of God Online Sermons and Podcasts | Angle Lake Neighborhood Church | Angle Lake Neighborhood Church

Maybe completely off the point, but it kinda reminds me of the life story of the author of my most favorite song (almost) Amazing Grace. Moves me, there's always hope.

[FunkyTown]

Wasn't Paul a murderer?

God can call who he will.

[Just_A_Guy]

Technically, Paul was an "unindicted co-conspirator".

But, I see your point.

[mordorbund]

Wasn't Paul a murderer?

God can call who he will.

I see your Paul, and raise you a Moses.

And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

Sure he was defending another, but the text makes it sound quite questionable since he looked to see if anyone was watching him, and then tried to make the corpus non-habeas.

[prisonchaplain]

In fairness, here is an example of a critical article on the pastor.

A grieving son finds no justice on Rev. Maury Davis' path to redemption | Cover Story | Nashville Scene

Another hint...to get the feel meaning...listen to the podcast. Hey, I need my voice, too! :-)

[Pahoran99]

In fairness, here is an example of a critical article on the pastor.

A grieving son finds no justice on Rev. Maury Davis' path to redemption | Cover Story | Nashville Scene

Another hint...to get the feel meaning...listen to the podcast. Hey, I need my voice, too! :-)

Question: did the "born again" juror have no duty of disclosure regarding his conflict of interest? His approaching the defense lawyer and promising to help all he could seems highly improper to me, although different jurisdictions may have different rules.

In my view, you cannot require a person -- including, but not exclusively, a bereaved person -- to forgive someone. Anyone who wants to criticise the son for not forgiving the man who murdered his mother is unlikely to be extending such criticism from an informed position.

Nor does anyone other than the bereaved have any right to forgive a murderer.

Mr Davis took a life. Gawrsh he feels sorry; but evidently not sorry enough to avoid using every legal trick in the book to avoid paying his debt. It's not for me to say how sincere his repentance is; but until the one incorruptible judge delivers His verdict, I reserve the right to have my doubts on that score.

Regards,

Pahoran

[prisonchaplain]

Pahoran...in the talk I make it very clear that, apart from the grace of God, it is more than understandable that the bereaved would not forgive. Ironically, the bitterness and unforgiveness have done far more harm them than they have to Davis.

[Pahoran99]

Pahoran...in the talk I make it very clear that, apart from the grace of God, it is more than understandable that the bereaved would not forgive. Ironically, the bitterness and unforgiveness have done far more harm them than they have to Davis.

No doubt; that's usually the way. Bitterness just eats us out from the inside.

However, there's another side to that. I have no reason to feel bitter towards Mr Davis, but from my perspective on the other side of the world, I notice that he caused a good deal more harm than he received in return; I am aware of no effort on his part to make any amends; and there is as yet no healing for those he has harmed.

Unless I am wrong on the second point, I would say that mercy has manifestly robbed justice in his case. And that's not how it's supposed to be.

At the risk of sounding flippant, it seems like, way cool that he would have all these neat-o experiences to set him up for his present career. I'm just not convinced that it was worth the level of collateral damage inflicted along the way. I would really, really, really like to believe that he has been through his own personal Gethsemane; but I would be the more readily convinced of the sincerity of Mr Davis's repentance if I knew he was working every waking moment to find a way to make amends to the family he savaged, instead of dining out on his dramatic "from the gutter to the pulpit" backstory.

Regards,

Pahoran

[slamjet]

I'm just not convinced that it was worth the level of collateral damage inflicted along the way. I would really, really, really like to believe that he has been through his own personal Gethsemane; but I would be the more readily convinced of the sincerity of Mr Davis's repentance if I knew he was working every waking moment to find a way to make amends to the family he savaged, instead of dining out on his dramatic "from the gutter to the pulpit" backstory.

And if the family doesn't want amends short of death? What is he to do? Being in his shoes (not murder, but I wronged a lot of people) I can understand and I can assure you that he most likely has thought about it a lot. I would like to make amends, but the other persons don't want to hear it, see me, or deal with in any way with me. Matter of fact, I'm still being blamed for everything that has, can, or could go wrong in this, if not these persons lives. Am I suppose to put my life on hold until these people comes around? Am I suppose to be in sackcloth and ashes until these people forgive me? It took me a while, but I answered "NO." For other people to forgive me is their choice, not something I can control so I progressed and moved on. If the other person want's to live in a state of bitterness and blame, that's their choice.

It's taken a lot of years until I forgave myself. I'm not going to pin my progress on other people's forgiveness of me. Nor should this Pastor. Nor should anyone else.

[Blackmarch]

No, no, no! I did not murder anyone!

Rather, I recently was guest speaker at my home church. The topic "Forgiving Your Enemies," includes the story of a convicted first degree murderer who became pastor of a large church, and also a presbyter (similar to a Stake President).

Comments are tolerated and kudos always welcomed!

Assemblies of God Online Sermons and Podcasts | Angle Lake Neighborhood Church | Angle Lake Neighborhood Church

I think anyone who's been lost in the throes of sin, and is snatched from it by the lord will feel a debt to him, one that drives him or her to share their salvation with those they meet.

[prisonchaplain]

Mr Davis took a life. Gawrsh he feels sorry; but evidently not sorry enough to avoid using every legal trick in the book to avoid paying his debt. It's not for me to say how sincere his repentance is; but until the one incorruptible judge delivers His verdict, I reserve the right to have my doubts on that score.

Regards,

Pahoran

Are you suggesting that Davis forgo his legal counsel, and ask for the death penalty, since that would satisfy the bereaved? Right or wrong, our legal system is set up as an adversial one. By definition, each side is using "every legal trick in the book." The system says this is right and proper.

You say we cannot blame the bereaved. True enough. That's outside anyone's jurisdiction. At the same time, I'm not sure how much good we do by casting doubt upon Davis' repentance and conversion. Are you sure that is a right you should reserve for yourself--especially decades after the incident?

[jaiotu]

The Apostle Paul was not *technically* a murderer. He was acting on behalf of the authorities who authorizes him. His murder was socially acceptable, much like the murders committed in the name of Hitler, making them all the more repugnant. Paul was more than just a murderer. He was a monster until Christ knocked him of his horse.

[Guest gopecon]

Paul's life became one of service and spreading the word, not getting wealthy by playing up his status as a convicted felon who had "found the Lord". Paul was also not the one to throw the stones - although he was working with those who did.

As the victim's son said, it would be one thing for him to find a quiet church to minister at. It's pretty galling to see him use his conviction of a viscious murder as a hook to get people in the seats, while making huge profits doing so. I do hope that Mr. Davis has changed and been forgiven, but this is a pretty crass way of showing it.

[prisonchaplain]

Paul was also not the one to throw the stones ...It's pretty galling to see him use his conviction of a viscious murder as a hook to get people in the seats, while making huge profits doing so. I do hope that Mr. Davis has changed and been forgiven, but this is a pretty crass way of showing it.

Sounds to me like you'd be okay with this guy if his church hadn't gotten big, and if he refused to talk about how he "once but lost by now is found, was blind, but now can see." Glad you think stone-throwing is not cool, though.

[Guest gopecon]

I'm not terribly comfortable with anyone getting rich from their ministry. Somewhere there's a line where the repentant soul goes from humbly referencing his gratitude for being saved from a sinful past and exploiting that sinful past to get gain. Admitedly it's not for me to judge (maybe its too late for that), but it seems like a million dollar mansion is an indication that one has crossed over that line. I will admit that I would be suspicious of almost any preacher's purity of motive who has that big of a house.

As an aside, I wonder if he uses his prison time for street cred (I did hard time but found the Lord), or if he ever admits to what he actually did (all the details are not necessary, but how aware is his congregation of what he was convicted of). Not sure which would be better, just curious.

[prisonchaplain]

I will admit to not knowing the minister personally. However, he has a solid reputation with his fellowship, and his past is known, but hardly the centerpiece of his ministry. I heard him speak to a convention of ministers in 2000. The focus of his message was how God built a large church using an unworthy vessel like him. His encouragement to us was to believe God for expansion of the kingdom. There was no glorying in his past, nor any denial. Neither was there the prosperity fallacy. The purpose of growing big churches was to see more converts come into the Kingdom and have them mature in the faith.

Big churches generally do pay their ministers more. On the other hand, growing churches mean more souls for God's kingdom. Small stagnant churches do not.