Atheist attacking... what 2do?

[Auryx]

So, I have a classmate who declares himself an atheistic person, a bright person and a very intelligent person...

I say that i am a LDS, and everyday he tries to "convert" me into an atheistic and bright person just as he is (Please, no!). I have talked about my beliefs and i have shared my testimony with many classmates a couple of times, because we all have different perspectives and we respect each other... except for him. He is constantly telling me how religion is harmfull for society and for my children. He says that i MUST teach them to believe in Critical Thinking instead of a bunch of nonsense....

Im fed up with this situation and i cant stand this anymore, i attach a link:

Six-arguments-against-religion where he states why religion is silly.

I dont know what to do, everytime i defend my posture and give reasons, he starts fighting and yelling and when i turn around to leave the conversation he says things like: "You see,... there's no point of believing!!! I know you realized it!!!"

I dont want to fight, but i want him to be respectfull... that wont happen, so, tell me something to shut up him cuz i cant handle this anymore... help me!

Please

[Dravin]

Ignore him? Particularly if he's yelling at you. Some people's opinions are not worth worrying about. Sometimes you need to let the hog wallow in the mud by himself.

[HoosierGuy]

He probably just wants to argue. State your case and walk away. It's a battle in his eyes, not yours. Don't let him pull you into his negative emotions. And the loudest one talking does not make one a winner. Although in this case there are no winners or loser. He has his opinion and you have yours.

[Dravin]

Actually looking through the website linked I'm noting a theme of Proof by Example Fallacy (Proof by example - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)* particularly because it focuses on the Catholic Church. It argues the Catholic Church is bad and then stands back and basks in, "See, I just showed how all religion is bad." Which causes problems, for instance one can't exactly accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses of war mongering.

The Catholic Church is bad.

The Catholic Church is religion.

Therefore all religion is bad

Is not a logically valid argument. And something tells me if one pointed to the Soviet Union as evidence for why atheism is bad they would quickly recognize it for what it is.

* Depending on how one looks at it, it could also be a compositional fallicy (Fallacy of composition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The subset Catholic of relgion is bad therefore all of relgion is bad.

As far as your guy's parting shots are concerned it sounds like a form of Arguement from Silence (Argument from silence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Edit: Just to be perfectly honest about it all. Religious folks use their share of logical fallacies and even though he uses logical fallacies does not logically mean his conclusion is false.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Dravin

[Guest Godless]

That kid sounds like an idiot (this coming from an atheist, mind you). Idiots are best left ignored.

[Dravin]

That kid sounds like an idiot (this coming from an atheist, mind you). Idiots are best left ignored.

Isn't that handy advice? What I love is it is so widely applicable.

Religious Idiot? Ignore.

Atheistic Idiot? Ignore.

Political Idiot? Ignore.

Bigoted Idiot? Ignore.

[rameumptom]

He's one of the New Atheists, who think they can convert the world to nothing.

First, explain to him that many intelligent, critical thinkers believe in God, including many leading scientists (and even Isaac Newton!). So you are in very good company.

Second, explain to him that the biggest genocidal events in history were caused by atheists. Stalin slaughtered 20-40 million of his own people. Mao Tse Tung killed 40 million people. Pol Pot killed millions, including all the doctors and teachers!

Have radical religionists killed people? Yes. But nowhere near as many as have the atheists. And many religionists do great works of charity. How many atheist organizations donate millions of dollars and thousands of hours of service to the poor and needy as does the LDS Church each year? And other Christian organizations donate in like manner.

When the 2004 tsunami devastated Indonesia, Americans (mostly Christian, and other religions) donated more through private donations than all of Agnostic Europe did as a whole (including government contributions).

It was religious people of the West who defended freedom during the Cold War against the Soviets and Communist Chinese. The reason so many millions have greater freedom today than in 1990 is because Ronald Reagan and his Christian followers insisted, "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Compare the human rights abuses in the USA with that in China or North Korea. Yes, we have some, but few compared to those bastions of atheism.

[Guest BarcodeIIIlll]

So, I have a classmate who declares himself an atheistic person, a bright person and a very intelligent person...

I say that i am a LDS, and everyday he tries to "convert" me into an atheistic and bright person just as he is (Please, no!). I have talked about my beliefs and i have shared my testimony with many classmates a couple of times, because we all have different perspectives and we respect each other... except for him. He is constantly telling me how religion is harmfull for society and for my children. He says that i MUST teach them to believe in Critical Thinking instead of a bunch of nonsense....

Im fed up with this situation and i cant stand this anymore, i attach a link:

Six-arguments-against-religion where he states why religion is silly.

I dont know what to do, everytime i defend my posture and give reasons, he starts fighting and yelling and when i turn around to leave the conversation he says things like: "You see,... there's no point of believing!!! I know you realized it!!!"

I dont want to fight, but i want him to be respectfull... that wont happen, so, tell me something to shut up him cuz i cant handle this anymore... help me!

Please

Well, I know that atheist people like him do not like it when someone talks to them about religion. One of my suggestions is that saying "I dont shove my religion in your face, so please dont shove your atheism in my face" thats what i say to other people. I mean, my best friends at school are aganostic/atheist, One of them is an idiot who disagrees with my religion, I ignored her and she eventually stopped talking about it. I respect atheists, I just hate it when theypurposlySay there atheist thoughts against you just because they enjoy annoying you.

"I dont shove my religion in your face in a bad way, So please dont shove your atheism hatred into my face, I respect what you beleive, please just dont try and try and convert me to atheism, I respect you for your thoughts, so please respect me for mine"

[Guest]

I do have the answer to this problem. Really. Ready?

SMILE. Yep, it really is THAT simple. If you can't avoid being in the situation that gives him the chance to start talking to you about your religion, simply SMILE... then jet at the very first opportunity!

No need to say anything even. Isn't that wonderfully easy? :)

People CHOOSE to be offended. You can't always control what other people do or say. But you can control how you react to it. You know what you believe. You know the kind of person he is. So, just accept it and move on. Smile!

[slamjet]

Ran into an atheist once. I told him after cutting short his filibuster that "I dare you to find God, until then, we have nothing to talk about." That pretty much ended it. He muttered while walking away "I dare you to not find God."

What a lazy, short-sighted, narrow-minded way to live.

[Elphaba]

So, I have a classmate who declares himself an atheistic person, a bright person and a very intelligent person...

I say that i am a LDS, and everyday he tries to "convert" me into an atheistic and bright person just as he is (Please, no!). I have talked about my beliefs and i have shared my testimony with many classmates a couple of times, because we all have different perspectives and we respect each other... except for him. He is constantly telling me how religion is harmfull for society and for my children. He says that i MUST teach them to believe in Critical Thinking instead of a bunch of nonsense....

Im fed up with this situation and i cant stand this anymore, i attach a link:

Six-arguments-against-religion where he states why religion is silly.

I dont know what to do, everytime i defend my posture and give reasons, he starts fighting and yelling and when i turn around to leave the conversation he says things like: "You see,... there's no point of believing!!! I know you realized it!!!"

I dont want to fight, but i want him to be respectfull... that wont happen, so, tell me something to shut up him cuz i cant handle this anymore... help me!

Please

:confused

Where do these encounters happen? Is it in the classroom? Are you forced to talk to him because of the physical environment?

Have you told him you find his approach disrespectful? Is it possible he doesn't realize how aggressive he is? From your description, I don't think he cares, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Rude comes in all belief systems, and it proves nothing as to the truthfulness of that belief system. But what's important is to realize that trying to defend yourself to rude is a complete waste of time.

I sense you think you should continue discussing this with him with the hope of converting him. If so, you should let that go. He is as entitled to his belief system as you are to yours. But more importantly, continuing to let him treat you rudely is not going to persuade him.

If he is as aggressive as you say, and if you truly want it to stop, then you need to stop engaging him--period. Do as anatess said, and smile when he approaches you, but that's it. You might warn him that you're not interested in discussing it anymore, and give him the opportunity to honor that. But at this point you're the one in charge of what you will, or will not, discuss. If you choose to continue responding to him then you are at fault for your discomfort--not him.

If the discussion were about something other than religion, would you continue to talk to a person who treated you so rudely? Of course not, and you shouldn't do it with this guy either--atheist or otherwise.

Elphaba, a die-hard atheist

[Elphaba]

Ran into an atheist once. I told him after cutting short his filibuster that "I dare you to find God, until then, we have nothing to talk about." That pretty much ended it. He muttered while walking away "I dare you to not find God."

What a lazy, short-sighted, narrow-minded way to live.

So when you say it, it's pertinent, but when the atheist responds in kind, it's lazy, short-sighted and narrow-minded?

Lazy, short-sighted and narrow-minded, indeed.

Elphaba

Edited December 9, 2010 by Elphaba
Added a clarifying comma.

[Jbdf]

I agree with rameumptom and a number of the others here. Auryx, your classmate is - to put it bluntly - being a jerk, and I suspect that his self-proclaimed "critical thinking" skills are really the "bunch of nonsense" that he thinks your beliefs are. If I were in your shoes, I'd mention the points that rameumptom mentioned and then tell your classmate that there is a good point in being a person of faith: it means you don't have to yell at people who disagree with you. And then I'd tell the classmate that if he ever wants to have a civil conversation, that might be a different story - and from there on out, unless he changes, I'd follow anatess' suggestion of just smiling and ignoring his attempts to lure you into a fight. (But diplomacy ain't one of my strong suits.) And if you do want help dealing with the arguments he's using, I'm sure there are a few people here who can help you out; I'd be glad to take a look at them (the link doesn't have any anymore). But yeah, the main thing I'd say to him is that there's no point in a discussion if there isn't respect there.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I would say following the LORD's counsel on this one:

Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

I would pray for this person.

[bert10]

Couple of options here.

1, Well first of all...tell him that this is harassment and if he does not cease and desist you will report him.

2. It is nice to be an atheist when everything is going well in one's life...it is well known by those who lived through it that there is no atheist in a foxhole.

3. Unless God act in his life....that He one day will know fear and that he will know the truth when he is at death door when the veil is about to part.

bert10

So, I have a classmate who declares himself an atheistic person, a bright person and a very intelligent person...

I say that i am a LDS, and everyday he tries to "convert" me into an atheistic and bright person just as he is (Please, no!). I have talked about my beliefs and i have shared my testimony with many classmates a couple of times, because we all have different perspectives and we respect each other... except for him. He is constantly telling me how religion is harmfull for society and for my children. He says that i MUST teach them to believe in Critical Thinking instead of a bunch of nonsense....

Im fed up with this situation and i cant stand this anymore, i attach a link:

Six-arguments-against-religion where he states why religion is silly.

I dont know what to do, everytime i defend my posture and give reasons, he starts fighting and yelling and when i turn around to leave the conversation he says things like: "You see,... there's no point of believing!!! I know you realized it!!!"

I dont want to fight, but i want him to be respectfull... that wont happen, so, tell me something to shut up him cuz i cant handle this anymore... help me!

Please

[Guest Godless]

2. It is nice to be an atheist when everything is going well in one's life...it is well known by those who lived through it that there is no atheist in a foxhole.

Not true. And yes, I've lived through it.

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, my dad went through WWII, and lived his entire life apparently content that he didn't know or care if there was a God or not. Yet he was also fond of that phrase though, so I dunno. Maybe a traumatic experience like combat can solidify one's conception of deity, as either someone there or someone not there? Dunno.

LM

[rameumptom]

I would say following the LORD's counsel on this one:

Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

I would pray for this person.

But if there is no God, isn't that wasting your time? And if there IS a God, aren't you interfering in the atheist's world view?

[slamjet]

So when you say it, it's pertinent, but when the atheist responds in kind, it's lazy, short-sighted and narrow-minded?

Lazy, short-sighted and narrow-minded, indeed.

Elphaba

Wow, Harsh.

I've known, worked with and spoke to many atheists in my time. They all have one thing in common: adjustable responsibility and morality.

They are willing to adjust their role in an act because it's what suits them best at the moment while holding up everyone else to a higher standard when it comes to how it affects them; "big deal, you only live once so get the most out of it that you can regardless of anything else." I knew one lady who defiantly said there is no God. This left her open to run over people, stomp on folks, use folks and just plain lie and cheat so that she could get ahead. And she did. Unfortunately, she's not the only one like that I've run into.

To live and not care about anyone except for ones self, using the survival of the fittest rule precludes good behavior since there is no one to set the standard except for "nature." And if you look around nature, you will find an example of EVERYTHING. To look up to a higher power or source for guidance on how to live means to give up control of what one thinks is moral. This is what Atheist are running away from.

It is Lazy, short-sighted and narrow-minded.

[Soulsearcher]

Wow, Harsh.

I've known, worked with and spoke to many atheists in my time. They all have one thing in common: adjustable responsibility and morality.

They are willing to adjust their role in an act because it's what suits them best at the moment while holding up everyone else to a higher standard when it comes to how it affects them; "big deal, you only live once so get the most out of it that you can regardless of anything else." I knew one lady who defiantly said there is no God. This left her open to run over people, stomp on folks, use folks and just plain lie and cheat so that she could get ahead. And she did. Unfortunately, she's not the only one like that I've run into.

To live and not care about anyone except for ones self, using the survival of the fittest rule precludes good behavior since there is no one to set the standard except for "nature." And if you look around nature, you will find an example of EVERYTHING. To look up to a higher power or source for guidance on how to live means to give up control of what one thinks is moral. This is what Atheist are running away from.

It is Lazy, short-sighted and narrow-minded.

The problem with this viewpoint is it's not focused on all, just a slim sampling, unless you can prove the majority of people who don't believe in god are only looking out for themselves. I know many who look out for others, do good, and live for the well being of others because they know it builds a stronger world if they do this rather than only take care of ones self. I could contrast this to people who believe in god who struggle to ever lift a finger to help another person and only do it because they are told it's important, but really feel no desire to care about others with out that direction from a higher power.

So we have people who help, give and do what they can for the sake of others. One group does it because they feel it's right and helps the world. The other group has to be told by a higher power to do it, and many of them only tend to help out those of their flock, or if they help people outside the flock tend to make a rather big deal out of it to show just how holy they are? Hmmmmm talk about selfish and narrow minded?

So do we admit both sides have less than stellar persons or do we group both sides up by their worst showings?

Edited December 9, 2010 by Soulsearcher

[Bini]

Slamjet, you've lumped a whole group of people into one and only one category. Your blanket statement portrays all Atheists as selfish people. I believe God would disagree with this notion.

[slamjet]

So do we admit both sides have less than stellar persons or do we group both sides up by their worst showings?

I concede your point. I am painting with a narrow brush. It's just that the atheistic people I've run into are like I've said. But then I should acknowledge that not all folks wear their ideals on their sleeves (I don't go around bragging about my Christianity, which can be a good thing). So who knows.

It's just that in my experience the most incredulous, pompous, irresponsible, back-stabbing, "I answer to no-one" people I've had the unfortunate privilege of schooling and working with were atheist and proud of it. It leaves an indelible mark.

[Soulsearcher]

I concede your point. I am painting with a narrow brush. It's just that the atheistic people I've run into are like I've said. But then I should acknowledge that not all folks wear their ideals on their sleeves (I don't go around bragging about my Christianity, which can be a good thing). So who knows.

It's just that in my experience the most incredulous, pompous, irresponsible, back-stabbing, "I answer to no-one" people I've had the unfortunate privilege of schooling and working with were atheist and proud of it. It leaves an indelible mark.

Sadly such is my Experience with most of the LDS i have known in life

[slamjet]

Slamjet, you've lumped a whole group of people into one and only one category. Your blanket statement portrays all Atheists as selfish people. I believe God would disagree with this notion.

My issue with your statement is that I'm going off my life's experience. If God gave us the ability to choose and learn wisdom, then why would I let myself be used and abused because I don't want to offend a group of people who have done nothing but harm me? I'm sorry but as much as I am wrong for making a blanket statement about a movement, I have yet have a devout atheist show me good fruits.

I should also add that I am dubious of anyone calling themselves Christians. I've also been hurt and abused in all kinds of grotesque ways by pious people. I get a bad chill up my spine when someone comes up to me and says "Hello, I'm Christian." I always answer back "Say's who?"

Yea, ok, I'm mental. But there are a lot of life's experiences both good and bad that I cannot overlook and leave myself open for attack again. Those day's are over.

[me1600]

Faith is faith. And as much as Athiests try to "prove" things there is a huge component of our belief system and way of life that is not something you can measure on a scale. My husbands parents are Athiests, they raised him not to believe in a thing. Let me tell you something, that family has very difficult coping mechanisms and a lot of anger because they have no spiritual basis. As for me, I was living with my boyfriend in sin and so forth when my friend a Christian, said, "the Lord has SO much in store for you but you have to follow his way" there was no, reprimand it was like "it's your choice" so I re dedicated myself to Christ. In one year I was married to that very man, and we have a baby, my greatest joy. My entire career changed and so forth. My life was totally not being driven by me I feel but by Someone Higher. I am deeply happy but know very well that this happiness would never have been found if I had kept doing it "my way".

Hang in there. Stay with like minded people. And, by the way, I am not LDS (yet :)

but I don't think that matters really at this point as we all believe in our Lord Jesus Christ.