Polygamy Questions

[Tantalus]

Later, describing the reasons for the Manifesto, President Woodruff told Church members, "The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for ... any of the men in this temple ... for all (temple sacraments) would be stopped throughout the land. ... Confusion would reign ... and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice."

Today Church members honor and respect the sacrifices made by those who practiced polygamy in the early days of the Church. However, the practice is outlawed in the Church, and no person can practice plural marriage and remain a member.

The standard doctrine of the Church is monogamy, as it always has been, as indicated in the Book of Mormon (Jacob chapter 2): “Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none. … For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.”

In other words, the standard of the Lord’s people is monogamy unless the Lord reveals otherwise. Latter-day Saints believe the season the Church practiced polygamy was one of these exceptions.

I don't quite understand whats been said in this text. If someone could clarify what it means that would be appreciated.

First question, was polygamy outlawed because the president claimed to receive a vision from God?

What sacrifices did early polygamists make?

By what exception did Latter-day Saints believe that polygamy was fine early on?

Thanks in advance.

[slamjet]

I'm sure someone will come along to answer better than me, but I'm going to throw out what I know and see if I get corrected and learn.

First, President Woodruff, being a Prophet and leader of the Church, has the responsibility to run the Church according to the will of whom we claim to be the head of the church, Jesus Christ. As such, he is entitled to receive revelations as to the direction that Christ dictates for the church.

Polygamy, being an accepted practice at that time, was instituted under the leadership of Joseph Smith as a way to deal with the numerous single mothers whom had a need of a male head of the household (because of the culture of the times). This practice was limited to those for whom the leadership of the church asked, or called specific men to do. It was not a wide-spread, anything goes, anyone can do it doctrine.

After the Saints emigrated to the Utah territory, the United States began a campaign of harassment of the Mormons. As part of this campaign, they outlawed the practice of polygamy. Now, having polygamy as an illegal act, the men who were polygamist were summarily arrested and jailed, this included much of the church leadership. Church properties were being seized.

One of our Articles of Faith is that we believe to be subject to the laws of the land. So it would not be a surprise that the church would overturn it's practice of polygamy for that reason. But there was also the problem that the priesthood members who had multiple wives were being arrested and jailed, thus decimating the leadership; and the church properties and temples were threatened to all being seized by the Government, thus restricting, or ending temple work. This would have thrown the church into chaos.

Supplicating the Lord for guidance, President Woodruff received instruction that the practice of polygamy was to end for the reasons that are in the quote.

[bytor2112]

What sacrifices did early polygamists make?

Seriously??? Have you seen some of the women these brethren married?:eek: I'd definitely call that sacrifice.

[slamjet]

Seriously??? Have you seen some of the women these brethren married?:eek: I'd definitely call that sacrifice.

Booooo, Hissss, May Lightning Strike YOU

[Tantalus]

I'm sure someone will come along to answer better than me, but I'm going to throw out what I know and see if I get corrected and learn.

First, President Woodruff, being a Prophet and leader of the Church, has the responsibility to run the Church according to the will of whom we claim to be the head of the church, Jesus Christ. As such, he is entitled to receive revelations as to the direction that Christ dictates for the church.

Polygamy, being an accepted practice at that time, was instituted under the leadership of Joseph Smith as a way to deal with the numerous single mothers whom had a need of a male head of the household (because of the culture of the times). This practice was limited to those for whom the leadership of the church asked, or called specific men to do. It was not a wide-spread, anything goes, anyone can do it doctrine.

After the Saints emigrated to the Utah territory, the United States began a campaign of harassment of the Mormons. As part of this campaign, they outlawed the practice of polygamy. Now, having polygamy as an illegal act, the men who were polygamist were summarily arrested and jailed, this included much of the church leadership. Church properties were being seized.

One of our Articles of Faith is that we believe to be subject to the laws of the land. So it would not be a surprise that the church would overturn it's practice of polygamy for that reason. But there was also the problem that the priesthood members who had multiple wives were being arrested and jailed, thus decimating the leadership; and the church properties and temples were threatened to all being seized by the Government, thus restricting, or ending temple work. This would have thrown the church into chaos.

Supplicating the Lord for guidance, President Woodruff received instruction that the practice of polygamy was to end for the reasons that are in the quote.

So Christ lets LDS pick who they want to receive information, such as new rules?

The Lord's decision to abolish polygamy was the result of non-LDS attacking LDS? Would this not be the Lord submitting to non-LDS law?

So the sacrifices of early polygamists was the persecution of the United States?

[bytor2112]

So Christ lets LDS pick who they want to receive information, such as new rules?

We are led by a Prophet....chosen by God. However each of us are entitled to personal revelation from God pertaining to ourselves and our families and also for people we may be called to have stewardship over in the church.

The Lord's decision to abolish polygamy was the result of non-LDS attacking LDS? Would this not be the Lord submitting to non-LDS law?

We believe in being subject to Kings and rulers. Plural marriage continues in the Eternal sense in that men are often sealed in Temples to a new wife if their current wife were to predecease them.

The Lord's purposes will be served and man and the laws of man will not slow the progress of the Lord's work.

So the sacrifices of early polygamists was the persecution of the United States?

Sure and persecution from family and friends that viewed it as a moral wrong. Even righteous men chosen to enter into plural marriage struggled to accept the principle and surely they made huge sacrifices in doing so.

Edited December 23, 2010 by bytor2112

[Tantalus]

We are led by a Prophet....chosen by God. However each of us are entitled to personal revelation from God pertaining to ourselves and our families and also for people we may be called to have stewardship over in the church.

We believe in being subject to Kings and rulers. Plural marriage continues in the Eternal sense in that men are often sealed in Temples to a new wife if their current wife were to predecease them.

The Lord's purposes will be served and man and the laws of man will not slow the progress of the Lord's work.

Sure and persecution from family and friends that viewed it as a moral wrong. Even righteous men chosen to enter into plural marriage struggled to accept the principle and surely they made huge sacrifices in doing so.

So Woodruff wasn't chosen by the people of LDS but by the Lord? How did he prove that God chose him to the other LDS?

What do you mean by sealed in Temples?

Thanks for the helpful responses thus far.

[slamjet]

So Christ lets LDS pick who they want to receive information, such as new rules?

The Lord's decision to abolish polygamy was the result of non-LDS attacking LDS? Would this not be the Lord submitting to non-LDS law?

So the sacrifices of early polygamists was the persecution of the United States?

We do have a hierarchy and a set rule of succession. The church leadership is not put there willy-nilly. Plus a change, such as the topic at hand, is not just one man. We have a Prophet who is also the President of the church with his two counselors. We also have the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The Prophet will present to his counselors and the Quorum of the Twelve the revelation he has received and they will discuss, pray, and vote to accept it. If they do, it's put before the church as a whole.

As for the LDS vs non-LDS laws, Article of Faith #12 states: We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. The Lord has made it clear that we are not above the law of the land. We still have to pay our taxes, we still have to pay our speeding tickets. So you can say we are beholden to the Laws of God and the Law of the Land. Don't forget that Christ himself said "Render unto Ceaser what is Caesers."

I think you don't really have a clear view of what kind of persecution the early Saints were subjected to. You name it, it happened. Jailing, theft, murder, rape, pillage, extermination orders, etc. It was an all out war to end the Mormons. Even the United States sent troops into Utah territory to tame the Mormons.

Do some looking up of what the early church went through and you'll get a good sense what was happening.

[Just_A_Guy]

So Woodruff wasn't chosen by the people of LDS but by the Lord?

As per our theology, yes.

How did he prove that God chose him to the other LDS?

Each member of the Church individually made a decision to accept him as such, based on their own revelation from God.

What do you mean by sealed in Temples?

For the purposes of this discussion . . . "sealed" is simply Mormon jargon for "married". (There's a lot more to it than that, if you start to dig into the theology . . . feel free to ask more if you like.)

[Tantalus]

I think you don't really have a clear view of what kind of persecution the early Saints were subjected to. You name it, it happened. Jailing, theft, murder, rape, pillage, extermination orders, etc. It was an all out war to end the Mormons. Even the United States sent troops into Utah territory to tame the Mormons.

Do some looking up of what the early church went through and you'll get a good sense what was happening.

Will do.

[Tantalus]

As per our theology, yes.

Each member of the Church individually made a decision to accept him as such, based on their own revelation from God.

For the purposes of this discussion . . . "sealed" is simply Mormon jargon for "married". (There's a lot more to it than that, if you start to dig into the theology . . . feel free to ask more if you like.)

Okay, so I'm guessing the same eternal sense of polygamy also applies to women if their husband were to die. Am I right in thinking this?

[Tantalus]

Alright a little off topic here but, if I wanted to catch up on a lot of information instead of eventually asking a ton of questions, would I want to read the 1st and 2nd testament then I'm guessing a book written by Joseph Smith? If so whats the Mormon book called?

[bytor2112]

Alright a little off topic here but, if I wanted to catch up on a lot of information instead of eventually asking a ton of questions, would I want to read the 1st and 2nd testament then I'm guessing a book written by Joseph Smith? If so whats the Mormon book called?

Our scriptures....Holy Writ....are The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price which can all be found here.

[bytor2112]

Tantalus....you may want to check out this site as well. Lots of good stuff.

[Tantalus]

Awesome, so I can read everything from that link? Sweet, thought I was gonna have to go find a LDS Church tomorrow.

[bytor2112]

Awesome, so I can read everything from that link? Sweet, thought I was gonna have to go find a LDS Church tomorrow.

You can actually find one through those sites and you can request a free copy of the Book of Mormon and chat live with some real LDS Missionaries.

[Just_A_Guy]

Okay, so I'm guessing the same eternal sense of polygamy also applies to women if their husband were to die. Am I right in thinking this?

Joseph Smith did practice polyandry--in other words, some of his wives were married to other men (it's debatable whether these particular unions were sexual in nature). However, by the time the church institutionalized the practice of polygamy in the 1850s, it had left polyandry behind.

[ttribe]

Polygamy, being an accepted practice at that time, was instituted under the leadership of Joseph Smith as a way to deal with the numerous single mothers whom had a need of a male head of the household (because of the culture of the times). This practice was limited to those for whom the leadership of the church asked, or called specific men to do. It was not a wide-spread, anything goes, anyone can do it doctrine.

Actually, by way of clarification, it was not instituted "as a way to deal with the numerous single mothers...." This is a common misconception. It was instituted as revealed in D&C 132.

[ttribe]

However, by the time the church institutionalized the practice of polygamy in the 1850s, it had left polyandry behind.

Mostly. Zina Young would be a notable exception.

[mapman]

Polygamy was causing Utah a lot of problems. It was illegal so many prominent Mormons were being put into prison and the federal government was threatening to confiscate Mormon property including the Salt Lake Temple which they had been working on for decades and had spent huge amounts of money on. The federal government also refused to make Utah a state until they abandoned polygamy. The polygamy problem was one of the factors that led to the Utah War, one of the biggest conflicts in the US until the Civil War. Wilford Woodruff realized that if polygamy had continued it was likely that all the Mormon leaders would end up in prison, they would lose their temples, and would eventually be forced to stop polygamy. Wilford Woodruff went to the Lord because of his concerns and he was told that they did not need to continue practicing polygamy.

[Traveler]

My great-grandfather’s personal journals have given my better understanding to the early LDS understanding of things resulting in the LDS church because of polygamy. He was a polygamist but not by choice. He and his wife were commanded to take another wife into their marriage family. He never had children by his second wife and according to his journals never lived with his second wife but provided a separate home for her. The story of his second wife is interesting but I will leave that and go on to other topics I believe to be relevant.

According to his journals there were strict elements to the proper courtship and preparation for instituting polygamy – in general:

First: A man and his wife must both be commanded by the president (presiding High Priest of the church) to take an additional wife.

Second: It is the responsibility of the first wife to seek out and determine the polygamist wife. Though all involved in the marriage must approve, the selection was up to the first wife. If the wife’s proposal did not work out then the entire process must begin again through personal commandment from the president.

According to his journals there were many (most – like 90%) that were seeking polygamist wives outside of proper protocol and also not executing their proper responsibility of economic care to all wives, that, according to my great-grandfather was an abomination that would bring about great condemnation (both earthly and divine condemnation) upon the entire church for generations to come.

The Traveler

[catalyst]

Polygamy, being an accepted practice at that time, was instituted under the leadership of Joseph Smith as a way to deal with the numerous single mothers whom had a need of a male head of the household (because of the culture of the times).

Actually the common explanation that polygamy was practiced in order to provide homes to a surplus of women in the church is a myth. LDS apostle John Widtsoe discussed this:

“Plural marriage has been a subject of wide and frequent comment. Members of the Church unfamiliar with its history, and many nonmembers, have set up fallacious reasons for the origin of this system of marriage among the Latter-day Saints. “The most common of these conjectures is that the Church, through plural marriage sought to provide husbands for its large surplus of female members. The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church, is NOT supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seems always to have been MORE MALES than females in the Church...

“Another conjecture is that the people were few in numbers and that the Church, desiring greater numbers, permitted the practice so that a phenomenal increase in population could be attained. This is not defensible, since there WAS NO SURPLUS OF WOMEN.”

(Evidences and Reconciliations, 1960, pages 390-392)

[slamjet]

Actually the common explanation that polygamy was practiced in order to provide homes to a surplus of women in the church is a myth. LDS apostle John Widtsoe discussed this:

“Plural marriage has been a subject of wide and frequent comment. Members of the Church unfamiliar with its history, and many nonmembers, have set up fallacious reasons for the origin of this system of marriage among the Latter-day Saints. “The most common of these conjectures is that the Church, through plural marriage sought to provide husbands for its large surplus of female members. The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church, is NOT supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seems always to have been MORE MALES than females in the Church...

“Another conjecture is that the people were few in numbers and that the Church, desiring greater numbers, permitted the practice so that a phenomenal increase in population could be attained. This is not defensible, since there WAS NO SURPLUS OF WOMEN.”

(Evidences and Reconciliations, 1960, pages 390-392)

Then I stand corrected.

[slamjet]

Actually, by way of clarification, it was not instituted "as a way to deal with the numerous single mothers...." This is a common misconception. It was instituted as revealed in D&C 132.

Thanks. I knew this would most likely be picked up as a mistake. But I was not sure, and it was my understanding of events. So I shall jettison that notion and stand corrected.

[Blackmarch]

I don't quite understand whats been said in this text. If someone could clarify what it means that would be appreciated.

First question, was polygamy outlawed because the president claimed to receive a vision from God?

What sacrifices did early polygamists make?

By what exception did Latter-day Saints believe that polygamy was fine early on?

Thanks in advance.

that it is fine only by Gods permission and its not fine by Gods denial. At that time people were commanded and called to be in polygamous arrangements.

While the church practiced polygamy, oppponents were able to convince the government of banning the practice afterwhich church leaders who practiced were hunted down vigorously to be taken to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

the ironic thing was shortly after the church commanded to cease polygamy that sort of anti-polygamist persecution stopped and has been nowhere near that level of prosicution/execution.