talisyn Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 The economy is the major issue in politics at the moment. The official unemployment number given through the BLS is at 9%. However, many economists say this number is very skewed. I found this chart (Alternate Unemployment Charts) with figures from 15% to 20% unemployment if you factor in long term discouraged workers not being counted and those working part time but cannot find full time employment.My forecast is a worsening recession with more industrial base being transferred to China. We also will continue to see food prices rise and the price of other commodities increase with the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing programs.The growth we have seen recently in the economy is the growth of the investment class, not average individuals (in my opinion).What do you think?Food prices are one of those things that get 'adjusted'. Like 'seasonal' unemployment doesn't get counted towards unemployment figures. I forgot what else doesn't get counted in official reports. BTW did you see the news article talking about how the storms in the Midwest are affecting food prices? It's winter. It's the Midwest. They aren't even digging into the ground for another 2-3 months and already the price of food got higher? Food costs at record high as U.N. warns of volatile era - Yahoo! News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 The local news did a story on a job fair held at the local university. One of the business at the job fair, a business that was hiring one hundred new employees, was an AT&T call center. How about that - college graduates doing call center work for $8.50 an hour. Pathetic. What was worse was that during this same broadcast there was talk of all the new fast food restaurant being built by one company - an company this is well known for hiring non union workers. They showed a small clip of some house being built and the workers had on black clothing with round black hats - they were AMISH! Amazing they went from employing U.S. citizens to illegal aliens to the Amish who don't care one iota about receiving healthcare benefits or pensions or anything else. I'm with others. I'm flabbergasted and disgusted at your comment about the Amish. You do come across that these people are not worth hiring. It seems like you are putting them below illegal aliens. What???These people are honest, hard working and probably some of the best carpenters you could find. Yet they aren't worthy to have jobs? That's what your post is insinuating and I find it highly offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew0059 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Inflation. Soon.Hyper-inflation. Soon after.This coming from someone with no economics training but a finger on the spiritual pulse of our nation and world. We're almost spiritually dead, and the tares are about the be separated from the chaff at an accelerated rate. Expect about 20 years of hell on earth starting soon, IMO.As for the Amish- I have heard that some (many?) Amish communities pool resources to provide their own health care- when one of them gets seriously sick and needs to go to a hospital, they can pay the full amount in cash. Perhaps this is what Hoosier meant by not caring about benefits?My understanding of Hoosier's contention is that the Amish would be less likely to unionize because they care less about the benefits that have, in our society, become affixed to employment (healthcare and pensions mainly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'm... If you can very carefully explain your position on why it's bad to hire the Amish, I would love to hear. The Amish are U.S. citizens and have as much a right to be hired as any other U.S. citizen. And no, it's not technically bad to hire someone who is Amish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisyn Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think maybe HG didn't phrase his words quite how he wanted to? I think I know what he's saying, that there are segments of society that will work for lower pay/less benefits than what would fund most people's lifestyle (like rent, health insurance, auto care and insurance etc.)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew0059 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 · Hidden Hidden The Amish are U.S. citizens and have as much a right to be hired as any other U.S. citizen. And no, it's not technically bad to hire someone who is Amish.I feel as if your post could equally read:"The mentally retarded are U.S. citizens and have as much a right to be hired as any other U.S. citizen. And no, it's not technically bad to hire someone who is mentally retarded."And the same tone would be preserved. Perhaps you could explain why Amish workers serve as an example of a degenerating economic situation/society? Link to comment
Matthew0059 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 The Amish are U.S. citizens and have as much a right to be hired as any other U.S. citizen. And no, it's not technically bad to hire someone who is Amish.This doesn't do much to allay the feeling I have that you see the Amish as somehow sub-par. Perhaps you could explain why a construction company hiring Amish workers is an example of a degraded economy and/or society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 I think maybe HG didn't phrase his words quite how he wanted to? I think I know what he's saying, that there are segments of society that will work for lower pay/less benefits than what would fund most people's lifestyle (like rent, health insurance, auto care and insurance etc.)... I think he used his words correctly. It's just typical HG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 This doesn't do much to allay the feeling I have that you see the Amish as somehow sub-par. Perhaps you could explain why a construction company hiring Amish workers is an example of a degraded economy and/or society. I never said once that U.S. citizens who work construction are sub-par, or illegal aliens, or U.S. Amish. My second post explained my viewpoint. Actually I want the best for all U.S. citizens, illegal aliens, and U.S. Amish. Here's a typical problem with the country courtesy of the new governor of Wisconsin - Scott Walker: New Wisconsin GOP Governor Pushes For Massive Rollback Of Worker Rights | TPMDC In an interview with the Associated Press, Scott Walker proposed stripping nearly all government workers of their collective bargaining rights. And as a warning shot across the bow, he told Wisconsin reporters Friday that he's alerted the National Guard ahead of any unrest, or in the event that state services are interrupted. How's that for this new feudalist economy? You dare strike for better pay or safer conditions and the governor will call out the military on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 LM, this post is a non-sequitur to the comment quoted.I guess I need a little more information on how you think outsourcing keeps prices down then. You specifically mentioned call centers (where people are paid to talk on phones) and software development (where people are paid to write software).What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 I never said once that U.S. citizens who work construction are sub-par, or illegal aliens, or U.S. Amish. My second post explained my viewpoint. Actually I want the best for all U.S. citizens, illegal aliens, and U.S. Amish. Actually HG basically you did. Let me quote you: They showed a small clip of some house being built and the workers had on black clothing with round black hats - they were AMISH! Amazing they went from employing U.S. citizens to illegal aliens to the Amish who don't care one iota about receiving healthcare benefits or pensions or anything else. That leaves us with the perception that you find the Amish to be below illegal aliens. That is what people are getting tiffed about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 How's that for this new feudalist economy? You dare strike for better pay or safer conditions and the governor will call out the military on you.Kinda makes you long for the days when the unions could hire goons to beat the living daylights out of any "scabs" who were still willing to show up for work, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightynancy Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 This coming from someone with no economics training but a finger on the spiritual pulse of our nation and world. We're almost spiritually dead, and the tares are about the be separated from the chaff at an accelerated rate. Dude, you'd better call Salt Lake. Quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) They aren't even digging into the ground for another 2-3 months and already the price of food got higher? Food costs at record high as U.N. warns of volatile era - Yahoo! NewsFrom your referenced article:Dubbed "Stormageddon," one of the biggest snowstorm in decades dumped up to 20 inches of snow in some parts of the U.S. grain belt this week, paralyzing grain and livestock movement. Meanwhile, more cold weather in the U.S. Plains ignited concerns the region's winter wheat lacked adequate insulating moisture.The disruption of infrastructure would explain short term price increases. The winter wheat though would have a longer term impact. A fear that winter wheat production for the coming season will be low explains the speculation on other crops (also, if you suspect that there will be a shortfall of wheat production it's worth it for you to keep your silo in reserve for when those prices increase giving more money for your product). The article also talks about how it's not just winter wheat folks are worried about. Edited February 12, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew0059 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Dude, you'd better call Salt Lake. Quick.For what reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightynancy Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 It sounds like you've got some seein' and prophesyin' going on! K, let me break ranks and say that we're on the verge of the next tech revolution AND breakthroughs in energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew0059 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 It sounds like you've got some seein' and prophesyin' going on!No more than any member could do, if they avoid mocking righteousness and try to develop their spiritual sensitivity. I guarantee you the Apostles know far more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 I guess I need a little more information on how you think outsourcing keeps prices down then. You specifically mentioned call centers (where people are paid to talk on phones) and software development (where people are paid to write software).What am I missing?The reason companies outsource is to lower production costs. The reason they need to lower production costs is not necessarily to increase profit margin. The reason is usually to remain price competitive - to stay ahead of competition. This assures that prices remain low.As the international trade cost gap narrows (especially with the advent of great advancements in telecommunications and computing), competition goes global - a trend we clearly see in industries that use telecommunications and computing to provide services, so that, you can continue to buy a Dell Computer in the USA for $399 even when the minimum wage in the US rises and the cost for employee benefits skyrocket. Because, American consumers have some tolerance to talking to somebody from Cebu, Philippines for Dell after-market support - which costs Dell $5/hr of support instead of the American alternative of $12/hr*.*made up numbers just for illustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisyn Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Kinda makes you long for the days when the unions could hire goons to beat the living daylights out of any "scabs" who were still willing to show up for work, doesn't it?I don't think they had to hire anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 The reason companies outsource is to lower production costs....Because, American consumers have some tolerance to talking to somebody from Cebu, Philippines for Dell after-market support - which costs Dell $5/hr of support instead of the American alternative of $12/hr*.*made up numbers just for illustration.Thanks for clarifying, but you were saying just what I thought you were saying, and I'm thinking my reply really was spot on.Because I'm seeing it live in a real budget spreadsheet tracking such things at my work. No really: When developing a new product, we know we can have 4 US engineers do it in a month, or have 8 Asian engineers do it for 3 months, and 1 US engineer for a week to fix everything at the end. Yeah, the Asian folks make 20% of the US engineers, but factor all that other stuff in, an it's harder to gain lower production costs. No really: Today's "lower production cost" countries are getting 3X or 5X the raises the US gets. Again, when was the last time you heard of anyone outsourcing a call center or software development project to Japan? It's because Japan (lower production cost king of the '70's and '80's) now has salaries comprable to US counterparts. India, Singapore, Malaysia - every year that goes by, the lower production costs shrink.Are you sure my response is a non-sequitur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightynancy Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 I guarantee you the Apostles know far more. I'm sure they do. For example, I'm sure they know that chaff and tares are equally useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'm sure they do. For example, I'm sure they know that chaff and tares are equally useless.Not quite. The chaff used to be useful, in that it was an integral part of and provided nourishment to the wheat.The tares were never good for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew0059 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'm sure they do. For example, I'm sure they know that chaff and tares are equally useless.Oops, put the wrong word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Thanks for clarifying, but you were saying just what I thought you were saying, and I'm thinking my reply really was spot on.Because I'm seeing it live in a real budget spreadsheet tracking such things at my work. No really: When developing a new product, we know we can have 4 US engineers do it in a month, or have 8 Asian engineers do it for 3 months, and 1 US engineer for a week to fix everything at the end. Yeah, the Asian folks make 20% of the US engineers, but factor all that other stuff in, an it's harder to gain lower production costs. No really: Today's "lower production cost" countries are getting 3X or 5X the raises the US gets. Again, when was the last time you heard of anyone outsourcing a call center or software development project to Japan? It's because Japan (lower production cost king of the '70's and '80's) now has salaries comprable to US counterparts. India, Singapore, Malaysia - every year that goes by, the lower production costs shrink.Are you sure my response is a non-sequitur?Yes, because, a company's failure to realize its budget forecasts doesn't negate the intention of the production decision.My company outsourced its entire desktop support to the Philippines. It used to be in India then they found a better quality response in the surveys when they did a trial in the Philippines and the Philippines was 30% cheaper. So, it got moved.Companies outsource because it is cheaper. They don't outsource because... they just want to.Cheaper production means more competitive price points on their products. Competition keeps prices low. Low prices are a good thing for American consumers.That's the point I'm trying to make... not, which outsourcing group is cheaper than who... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneC Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 The economy is the major issue in politics at the moment. The official unemployment number given through the BLS is at 9%. However, many economists say this number is very skewed. I found this chart (Alternate Unemployment Charts) with figures from 15% to 20% unemployment if you factor in long term discouraged workers not being counted and those working part time but cannot find full time employment.My forecast is a worsening recession with more industrial base being transferred to China. We also will continue to see food prices rise and the price of other commodities increase with the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing programs.The growth we have seen recently in the economy is the growth of the investment class, not average individuals (in my opinion).What do you think?I think that between our debt, deficit and Obama the world has lost confidence in our economy and wants to move on ie:France Wants to Ditch Dollar as World CurrencyTuesday, 15 Feb 2011 07:04 AMFrance, as current head of the Group of 20 countries, will help the transition to a global financial system based on "several international currencies," French Economy Minister Christine Lagarde said on Monday.Lagarde, speaking ahead of a G-20 finance ministers meeting here on Friday and Saturday, said the world had to move on from the "non-monetary system" it now has to one "based on several international currencies."Accordingly, France wants to see less need for countries, especially the emerging economies, to accumulate huge foreign reserves, she said.At the same time, international capital flows should be better regulated and the role of the Special Drawing Rights issued by the International Monetary Fund should be reinforced by the inclusion of China's yuan in the system.China, whose booming economy now ranks second only to the United States in size after overtaking Japan, has accumulated massive forex reserves of more than $2.5 trillion on the back of its sustained trade surpluses and foreign fund inflows.Washington says the build-up reflects an unfair undervaluation of the yuan, a charge Beijing rejects.France has previously said it wanted to see the global financial system reduce its reliance on the dollar for a more broad-based arrangement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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