Honor? Article Sent to BYUH Magazine

[Nelly]

I have a friend that attends BYU-Hawaii and she posted this on her facebook from a friend of hers M.F. He wrote about the Honor Code office and how it became an issue with two people. I thought it was pretty interesting and thought I would share it with others and your opinions on it.

Sent to the local BYUH magazine and the Honor Code office.

One of the greatest truths ever uttered is the line “The good don’t know how close to evil they really are.” It’s a truth, albeit a difficult one to accept, that more fully embraces a much older saying most are familiar with: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The truth in these statements is well evidenced in history. The Pharisees for example were not always a diabolically stubborn and arrogant group that resisted the savior, they started off as the priests waiting for his coming. But over time as they took more and more measures to ‘enforce good’, they began to believe more and more in forcing people to be righteous. Once that system was in place, abuse quickly avalanched, and a once righteous group of people ended up being the fiercest to oppose Christ’s coming. They knew better, they were the right ones, and nothing could dissuade them.

BYUH is, like all the BYU schools, a firm believer in what they refer to as an “Honor Code”, a set of rules and moral values that students are encouraged to adhere to. Usually, this isn’t a bad thing. Much like members of the church are encouraged to live certain values, each of the BYU schools encourages its students to stand for something honorable and right.

The problem is that BYUH has of today crossed the line. The honor code as I witnessed it being used today is not a standard of good, but a tool for personal power. Many students have voiced concerns over the recent lockdown of many vague and unexplained areas of the honor code, areas vague enough they are left open to abuse by those who enforce it. For those of you who have not yet had the misfortune of running into the new Honor Code Gestapo, I would like to relate two stories that have both occurred in the last week.

I’m an off-campus student who lives like many students in Hauula due to BYUH’s housing shortages. This puts me several miles from campus, and I walk or bike these miles every day. In order to keep from being a disgusting sticky mess when I arrive on campus, I wear carefully selected athletic shorts. They’re modest, below the knees, plainly colored, and I have worn them both while here and the entirety of my three and a half years spent at BYU Provo, which has no problem with athletic shorts as long as they are modest.

Last week I had the unfortunate experience of being told I was no longer welcome to eat at the school cafeteria because I was wearing these shorts. I was upset. Why had I never been turned away before? They were modest shorts. My garments were covered. They weren’t extravagant or “extreme”. Any attempts to get an explanation were thrown back at my face with a simple phrase: That’s the rule. You can’t eat here.

So I went to the honor code office to voice my displeasure and found myself talking to a senior couple, the McWells. In trying to explain my case (which had to be forced over the McWells constant lack of interest) I reached the point of explaining how I biked from Hauula, Sister McWell interrupted me to loudly exclaim “Well then you can just bike to another university!” and turned up her nose at me.

This was when I decided that the BYUH honor code as it stands now needs to be changed. But what I saw today drove home another fact. That we need to change how it is enforced. Today, once church let out I decided to see what the cafeteria was serving for lunch. Turns out it was snideness, with a side order of derision.

Brother and Sister McWell had parked themselves outside of the front door to the cafeteria and were busily turning away what seemed to be about three out of every four who came to eat. But they weren’t just turning them away, they were acting in what I believe to be the most arrogant and insulting manner I have ever seen in a BYU employee at any school.

I witnessed a group of people walk up fresh from church and almost pass until Sister McWell held out her hand and informed one member of the group that he wasn’t allowed to eat there because he hadn’t shaved. Now, it was clear to see that this clean, well dressed young student had in fact, shaved that morning. There wasn’t even a five o’ clock shadow on his face, just the few whiskers that normally pop up after a few hours. But that wasn’t the clincher.

No the clincher was when she looked right at him and told him in the same manner as you would a two year old barely old enough to understand, “You see, we have standards at this school. And you’re not following those standards. You’re not welcome here.”

Have you ever seen the fifth Harry Potter movie? The one with Dolores Umbridge, the absolutely vile self-assured woman who acts like everyone is a small child that needs to be told what to think and plainly abuses what power she has in every way? The situation here reminds me a lot of that.

Is this what the honor code is supposed to represent? If the honor code is to be enforced, there is a right way to do it and there is a wrong way to do it. This is the wrong way. This is in fact one of the worst ways that the “honor” code could be enforced. And yes, I surround it with quotes because as it is being enforced now, there is nothing honorable about it. It’s a sham. For the “honor” code to be honorable, it would be left to the decision of the student, not enforced by an all-to-eager couple hunting for infractions.

Part of the current problem with the “honor” code stems from what I said earlier about it. The “honor” code is very vague in several areas. No athletic shorts is a prime example. What’s wrong with athletic shorts? Nothing is said. I can see a clear problem if someone arrives at the cafeteria with a pair of shorts covering about as much as a speedo, or a bit more, but when someone shows up wearing a pair of below-the-knee plain black shorts, what is the problem? What determines whether shorts are indeed athletic? I’ve seen several pairs of shorts that are ‘approved’ that don’t look very different from the shorts I’m wearing. Is there a list of brands I should be avoiding? Has BYUH decided that Adidas are permissible but Nike shorts are not? Seems to me that shorts make much more sense than a pair of business slacks, one is cool and refreshing, the other is hot, muggy and leaves you sweaty. Also, lets ignore the argument that one is “unprofessional” is worthless. My field won’t hire people wearing ties because of bad experiences with so-called professionals. I happen to own my own development studio. The “unprofessional” argument is just a way of justifying enforcement of a personal opinion.

There are other grey areas as well. The honor code states that all men must have a “Clean-shaven appearance.” Who defines what is and isn’t clean shaven? The young man I saw turned away from the cafeteria had plainly shaved several hours earlier, is BYUH going to put in a series of “shave-rooms” so that every man on BYU campus can shave every five hours in order to be “clean shaven” enough to eat? Currently these vague areas are where the advantage is being taken by those who have been given the capacity to enforce them.

The grayest area by far that deserves mention is BYUH’s supposed use of facebook. Now I will state right up front that the BYUH honor code office in the same sentence will both deny ever using facebook and say “but it’s public information anyway”, which casts a lot of doubt on the first half of the statement. I’ll simply add that while it may be public information, the law is saying otherwise to those who assume it can be used, having decreed facebook as “protected content”. A word to the wise BYUH, if a student caught you snooping on their facebook page as many have voiced concerns over, you could be facing serious legal problems.

Now a word about enforcement. Clearly there is something wrong with BYUH’s “honor” code if it is enforced through belittlement, insults and threats. First of all, if the majority of your student body is actively breaking a rule which you set in place, the issue probably isn’t that the students are being unreasonable, it is far more likely that you are. Secondly, if the reaction to the active breaking of the rule is to enforce a form of tyranny, to take away the students choice in the matter, to belittle them, to insult them in order to bend them to your will, then you may as well drop the pretense of the “honor” code altogether. We should already know by now that forcing someone to do right is the wrong way to do things. Then there is the irony of people wearing the “respectable” clothing being the ones acting in a derogatory manner, which I’ll leave at that.

To summarize, BYUH has overstepped its own bounds in enforcing a document which is at odds with the students. Rather than admit the possibility of change or engage in one-to-one discussion, BYUH’s honor code office has gone on the attack. BYUH claims to be working towards “…moral, ethical, and spiritual enrichment…” but I fail to see how it lives up to that standard when it verbally attacks and insults students for disobeying loosely defined “honor” values the school itself claims to live by. BYUH needs a change now, both in the “Honor” code an in its own structure.

Change is in no way unheard of. BYU Provo has made many changes over the years. Until the 80s, women were not even allowed to wear pants on BYU campus, until enough women revolted that BYU Provo realized that it in fact had to change and in the end nothing was wrong with pants.

I call for a change. BYUH’s “honor” code is anything but in the manner it is currently being enforced, and areas of the “honor” code itself are up to myriad interpretations. The honor code needs to be approved by the students, not used as a tool against them. One last word in this regard, I find it not at all in balance that the standards of BYUH’s “honor” code are higher than those required to hold my temple recommend. If the standards are so high that one can enter the temple but not BYUH something needs to change.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Nelly

[Dravin]

Did you (and your friend) have permission to repost the entirety of the article?

[NeuroTypical]

It's amazing how many idealistic students suffer under the yoke of unrighteous oppression. However, most of them mature into adults and figure out how goofy it is to join a chess club and demand to play checkers.

[Nelly]

Did you (and your friend) have permission to repost the entirety of the article?

As in posting this? Yes, I asked before I did.

[Dravin]

As in posting this? Yes, I asked before I did.

Just making sure, wouldn't want to violate copyright (I'm assuming you asked the holder of the copy right which would be the author not your friend under normal circumstances). Some folks think if it's online it's public domain, actually there was a story of a cooking magazine (for profit) that tried that argument when caught stealing material, but I digress.

[Dravin]

It's amazing how many idealistic students suffer under the yoke of unrighteous oppression. However, most of them mature into adults and figure out how goofy it is to join a chess club and demand to play checkers.

I think there tends to be a breakdown when people try to compare the Church's educational institutions with the Church. For instance, one does not have to pay tuition to attend the temple. Nor do I need to maintain grades. The point of the honour code is not to make people meet gospel standards, but to develop a culture at the institution, one that makes it peculiar for good or ill. The point about not being a jerk and to be consistent is of course a legitimate complaint in most circumstances.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Dravin

[Wingnut]

Wah, wah, wah. People sign and agree to abide the honor code before they enter. It's their own problem if they don't read it.

[GeneC]

Nelly, you should be complaining about the people, not the Honor Code. There is nothing wrong with the Honor Code. I've attended both and the school with the Honor Code BYU, Utah was far superior and had the most peaceful Spirit I've encountered outside of the Temple of God.

[Nelly]

Just making sure, wouldn't want to violate copyright (I'm assuming you asked the holder of the copy right which would be the author not your friend under normal circumstances). Some folks think if it's online it's public domain, actually there was a story of a cooking magazine (for profit) that tried that argument when caught stealing material, but I digress.

Yes Dravin, I asked the original person if I could share it :). I wouldn't want to be that silly to post something without permission that someone else wrote .

I

[Dravin]

Nelly, you should be complaining about the people, not the Honor Code. There is nothing wrong with the Honor Code. I've attended both and the school with the Honor Code BYU, Utah was far superior and had the most peaceful Spirit I've encountered outside of the Temple of God.

Well, Nelly herself may not be complaining. Just finding it an interesting article and potential conversation fodder.

Yes Dravin, I asked the original person if I could share it . I wouldn't want to be that silly to post something without permission that someone else wrote .

You'd be surprised.

[GeneC]

I sit corrected.

[Dravin]

I sit corrected.

Well you could also be right. Won't know until Nelly chimes in on the matter. :)

[Nelly]

Nelly, you should be complaining about the people, not the Honor Code. There is nothing wrong with the Honor Code. I've attended both and the school with the Honor Code BYU, Utah was far superior and had the most peaceful Spirit I've encountered outside of the Temple of God.

Well, Nelly herself may not be complaining. Just finding it an interesting article and potential conversation fodder.

You'd be surprised.

I'm not the one complaining, as Dravin said.. I just thought it was interesting and shared it. Also, I think he's more complaining about the people who are enforcing the honor code more than they use to. The students there seem to have more of a issue with the two employees than the honor code itself.

[Dravin]

I'm not the one complaining, as Dravin said.. I just thought it was interesting and shared it. Also, I think he's more complaining about the people who are enforcing the honor code more than they use to. The students there seem to have more of a issue with the two employees than the honor code itself.

I agree that the main thrust is about enforcement but as portrayed I don't think anyone can really disagree with the sentiment (it is of course a one sided portray as all such things tend to be), so the secondary portion complaining about the honor code itself is drawing the comments. That said sentiment is the conclusion doesn't help either.

[beefche]

How horrible! To comply with an Honor code! It just springs up randomly. And imperfect people have to enforce it. That is a tragedy.

Perhaps they should allow those who wish to avoid the Honor Code to pay the price of a private university which is not owned by the church. So, for a mere, let's say...$40,000/year, you can get a special ID which shows you are not to be held to the same Honor Code. Seems like a nice trade off. Those who wish to abide the Honor Code will get a significant discount. Those who don't can pay the tuition seen in other private universities.

[Carl62]

I don't think this is so much about having to abide by a very vague and "made up on the spot" honor code as it is the people's condescending attitude when an "infraction" arises. O.K., I can see why someone would want to call to your attention something that may be a problem or even a potentail problem of which I'm o.k. with, but why is it that yes, there usually does seem to be this kind of a "talking-down" and arrogant attitude that is relayed with that? And please don't give me the cop-out, stale line about how "the church is perfect, the people aren't." It's one thing to maybe have a bad day and have an attitude as such, but when these people can come across as bungholes on an almost daily basis, then how is that acting as any kind of representative of this Church's school or even of this Church? Would Jesus act with this kind of arrogance? Don't think so. I know because I experienced this same exact thing at BYU-I also.

[slamjet]

I find nothing out of sorts with this article other than one thing, maybe she should have changed from her shorts when she entered campus. In any case, there are so many people of self-appointed piety that feel the need to be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to rules and "honor" codes when I'm sure they have their moments themselves. And to be parked outside the cafeteria?

There needs to be a level of compassion and honor mixed into the "honor" codes. I have a daughter in BYU-I right now. There were times where she couldn't make all the mandatory functions because of the level of schoolwork she was carrying. She was made to feel like a criminal by her roommates. So unless these "honor" codes are given while at the same time being counseled to not be abusive to the point of being the self-appointed police, then there will always be those who feel they know better than everyone else, and will not be shy about proclaiming it.

[Traveler]

While attending BYU I had 3 honor code violations. One was for putting a sign up by the main intersection to campus for Heritage Halls that read “Cattle Crossing”. The honor Code committee that listened to my case had almost no sense of humor. But there is one interesting thing that I learned. If one had a “bad” attitude concerning the Honor Code and argued their points - They always lost. Regardless of how brilliant their arguments were.

On the other hand if one had an attitude of how can I make this work - how can I help? They could be forgiven for almost anything. The whole secret in life is to learn to get along. Going before the Honor Code with the attitude of - I am so smart and you all are a bunch of idiots. - Listen to me and I will explain how you can do a much better job of it. Sorry to tell you this but an arrogant attitude never helps with anything.

So here is breaking news. When you have a problem and could use some understanding and help - DON’T GET UPSET AT ANYONE THAT CAN HELP YOU!!! Try being nice. I have found that being nice is so much better that being a B---- or Son of a B---- . if you really want a positive response - have a positive attitude. The “Ill get you for this” attitude will likely backfire.

The Traveler

[Guest]

My feedback on this article:

It would have received a more positive response to the article if the writer would have left out any derisive remarks about the Honor Code and instead, addressed only the tone of its enforcement. Also, a more objective report instead of an article reeking with seemingly biased emotion would have served better to raise awareness of the problem in BYU-H.

My personal remarks about Honor Codes:

BYU Honor Codes are a pittance compared to the Catholic Schools I went to. We had to wear uniforms - even in college - the skirts are to be worn at least 2 inches below the knee and a camisole/undershirt have to be worn over the bra under the button-down collared shirt... this is in the Philippines where there are only 2 seasons - Wet or Dry - where "winter" is 75 and "summer" is 100.

You don't like the uniform? Go to a different school. Varsity volleyball teams wear bicycle shorts or track pants. Yep.

There's a security guard at the gate who checks your uniform and your bag. We give gifts to the security guard so he will stay nice.... and even then, the professor could throw you out of class as well even if you pass security. My professor on all my math classes (I was in engineering - lots of math) is a crazy one. He failed his own son from his class... THREE TIMES. Yep. His own son. He doesn't do the work or misbehaves, he fails - even if his dad is teaching...

Yeah, BYU is heaven compared.

[john doe]

I don't think this is so much about having to abide by a very vague and "made up on the spot" honor code as it is the people's condescending attitude when an "infraction" arises. O.K., I can see why someone would want to call to your attention something that may be a problem or even a potentail problem of which I'm o.k. with, but why is it that yes, there usually does seem to be this kind of a "talking-down" and arrogant attitude that is relayed with that? And please don't give me the cop-out, stale line about how "the church is perfect, the people aren't." It's one thing to maybe have a bad day and have an attitude as such, but when these people can come across as bungholes on an almost daily basis, then how is that acting as any kind of representative of this Church's school or even of this Church? Would Jesus act with this kind of arrogance? Don't think so. I know because I experienced this same exact thing at BYU-I also.

Let's remember that this is one person's interpretation of events. This person is also the one the incident happened to, and is likely still upset and angry about it, thus more likely to spin things in such a way as to make him/herself look good and the people he/she dealt with look bad in the situation. An outside observer of the situation may not have seen the events in question in the same light as the person who was being told they were in violation of the dress and grooming portion of the honor code, which they signed upon entrance to the school.

Personally, I have my doubts that 75% of the students attempting to enter a cafeteria for lunch were turned away for violations. That number seems just a tad high to me. On the other hand, I can see how sometimes people run afoul of the people enforcing the rules and land themselves in hot water when they think they are doing nothing wrong, and may technically be right. In those kinds of situations, I find that it is best to do as Trav advises, and that is to try to find a good compromise and work with the people who enforce the rules to come up with a good solution to the problem. Generally that includes conforming yourself and your attitude to go along with what they ask you to do. And if that doesn't work out to your satisfaction, then there are plenty of places elsewhere that don't have 'silly' rules for you to run afoul of. You will also find that generally they don't carry the same spirit at those other places either.

[Carl62]

Let's remember that this is one person's interpretation of events. This person is also the one the incident happened to, and is likely still upset and angry about it, thus more likely to spin things in such a way as to make him/herself look good and the people he/she dealt with look bad in the situation.

Personally, I have my doubts that 75% of the students attempting to enter a cafeteria for lunch were turned away for violations. That number seems just a tad high to me.

Just like how this is your interpretation of what happened to the OP and how he's reacting....and you weren't even there! You know what they say when you assume things.

[slamjet]

Just like how this is your interpretation of what happened to the OP and how he's reacting....and you weren't even there! You know what they say when you assume things.

I'm sorry, what are you calling me exactly?

[Carl62]

I'm sorry, what are you calling me exactly?

Hello? Can you read? This was not directed towards you!

[slamjet]

Hello? Can you read? This was not directed towards you!

However, I took an assumptive stance so thus I took your post to read that anyone who took a position of assumption should be careful of jumping to conclusions without having both sides to the story. Was that not what you were saying?

[john doe]

Just like how this is your interpretation of what happened to the OP and how he's reacting....and you weren't even there! You know what they say when you assume things.

Excuse me, were YOU there? You know what they say when people assume things after reading something written by someone with an axe to grind. Unless you were there, you don't know what happened, any more than I do. As far as assuming things, I wasn't there, but a 75% turn-away rate seems high to me. Yep, I would assume the number be lower than that. And yeah, I did go to Ricks College, so I do have somewhat of an idea of what I'm talking about.