Gov't Drops Defense of Anti-gay Marriage Law

[Soulsearcher]

I take it a lack of letting a deity sort them out later is intentional? :gulp:

LOL it's funny, every one says " and let god sort them out right?"

my response is " if i wanted them sorted i do it before i kill them, i just want them dead and gone!" My friends have gotten used to it, lol the odd new employee or customer took issue with it but it never went to far beyond a nervous look lol.

[PrinceofLight2000]

No surprise here. They're liberals.

[prophetofdoom]

Just another example of the gentiles' increasing iniquity. It is a slow and incremental advancement of iniquity taking place.

[Soulsearcher]

Just another example of the gentiles' increasing iniquity. It is a slow and incremental advancement of iniquity taking place.

You are so very right, thankfully that's why they aren't defending this law anymore to avoid more iniquity

Edited February 26, 2011 by Soulsearcher

[Matthew0059]

I'm sure people said the same thing when polygamy was outlawed, but the past 130 years haven't been as bad as those doomsday sayers thought it would be. I highly doubt same sex marriage will single handedly usher in the apocalypse.

Is the open acceptance and lauding of same-sex "marriage" the single thing that makes a society wicked? Or is it merely one of many 'litmus tests' that GOD may use?

In this case, what other litmus tests will he use? What will be the signs of the coming destruction?

Most of all, which is better: to always be watching and waiting for the end of the world, or to say "it has not happened yet; therefore it will not happen soon"?

[Soulsearcher]

Is DOMA Dead? - Yahoo! News

[MarginOfError]

Is the open acceptance and lauding of same-sex "marriage" the single thing that makes a society wicked? Or is it merely one of many 'litmus tests' that GOD may use?

In this case, what other litmus tests will he use? What will be the signs of the coming destruction?

Most of all, which is better: to always be watching and waiting for the end of the world, or to say "it has not happened yet; therefore it will not happen soon"?

I've said this before, and I'm sure I'll say it again. Legalizing same sex marriage will hardly have any effect on the country's "wickedness quotient." Same sex relationships are already culturally acceptable. If that was going to be the straw that broke the camel's back, something would have happened already.

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW - if I remember my ancient archaeology correctly, there were civilizations (Sumer, I think?) where prostitution was all but mandated as a part of state-sponsored worship.

We've got a long way to go before we're "ripe for destruction". Not saying we can't get there quickly, and not saying that open social endorsement of gay sex isn't a huge step in that direction compared to where we were previously--but I'm pretty firmly convinced that as far as wickedness goes, we haven't seen anything yet.

[Matthew0059]

I've said this before, and I'm sure I'll say it again.

Probably.

Legalizing same sex marriage will hardly have any effect on the country's "wickedness quotient."

Like the introduction of no-fault divorces? Things take time, but the laws of a land do, over time, have an effect on the morality of a people. Now, does the morality of the people affect the laws more than the laws affect the morality? I think their effects on each other are cyclical. Regardless, legal recognition of same-sex marriage is another stepping stone in anti-family legislation, which is most definitely a reflection on the morality of the people.

Who was it that was paving the way for the destruction of the people of Ammonihah?

Same sex relationships are already culturally acceptable. If that was going to be the straw that broke the camel's back, something would have happened already.

Agreed, but I think the situation is more serious than the common man realizes. As in, death-and-destruction-within-five-years imminent. Edited February 26, 2011 by Matthew0059

[MarginOfError]

Probably.

Like the introduction of no-fault divorces? Things take time, but the laws of a land do, over time, have an effect on the morality of a people. Now, does the morality of the people affect the laws more than the laws affect the morality? I think their effects on each other are cyclical. Regardless, legal recognition of same-sex marriage is another stepping stone in anti-family legislation, which is most definitely a reflection on the morality of the people.

Who was it that was paving the way for the destruction of the people of Ammonihah?

Agreed, but I think the situation is more serious than the common man realizes. As in, death-and-destruction-within-five-years imminent.

It was nice knowing you, Britain.

[Soulsearcher]

Probably.

Like the introduction of no-fault divorces? Things take time, but the laws of a land do, over time, have an effect on the morality of a people. Now, does the morality of the people affect the laws more than the laws affect the morality? I think their effects on each other are cyclical. Regardless, legal recognition of same-sex marriage is another stepping stone in anti-family legislation, which is most definitely a reflection on the morality of the people.

Agreed, but I think the situation is more serious than the common man realizes. As in, death-and-destruction-within-five-years imminent.

I always wonder where the "anti-family" thought comes in. No one is trying to stop families, or is against them. I've always found this kind of fear mongering to scare people so they won't look at reality. Yes the view of what makes a family is evolving, but it's not eliminating the family, it's expanding beyond the nuclear tradition. In a legal sense there is nothing wrong with this. In a moral sense it depends on what your morals are. You can claim it's not inline with your morals, but be very careful commenting on the morality of others, it might not be the same as yours, but that doesn't make it less.

[Matthew0059]

You can claim it's not inline with your morals, but be very careful commenting on the morality of others, it might not be the same as yours, but that doesn't make it less.

To a relativist such as yourself, Soulsearcher, this might be the highest truth there is, but I am a firm believer that GOD and the universe works by set natural laws. I wish you could see it the way GOD does- but it appears you've already counted that possibility out, judging by your signature.

And the "anti-family" comment could also be rendered "anti-traditional-family". I wish I had the time and motivation to take the hours required to build my case, but it would be rejected anyway, so here are the basics:

There is a conspiracy in the minds and hearts of those leading this gay-marriage movement. This conspiracy is the same one that exists in the hearts of the leaders of communist/socialist/fascist revolutions, and all despotic dictators. This conspiracy was started by Satan, and is at its heart a spiritual one- one that cannot be discerned by those unenlightened by the Spirit of GOD and wisdom. This conspiracy aims to tear down anything that typifies GOD and CHRIST and seeks to build up the kingdom of the devil, which seeks to take the rights and agency of man away from him. Those at the very highest echelons of these conspiracy know more or less what they are doing, but they cannot let the average person know. Therefore, using the flattering power of human language they trick their billions of followers into thinking that their cause is for the "greater good" and for the "progression" of society. This conspiracy has existed in the hearts of man since Cain slew Abel, and we are about to see its various masks come off and the anti-christ rise in terrible power.

You may laugh at this as you did at my former post, Soulsearcher, but I ask you to be respectful enough not to misuse the laugh button for this purpose.

[Soulsearcher]

To a relativist such as yourself, Soulsearcher, this might be the highest truth there is, but I am a firm believer that GOD and the universe works by set natural laws. I wish you could see it the way GOD does- but it appears you've already counted that possibility out, judging by your signature.

And the "anti-family" comment could also be rendered "anti-traditional-family". I wish I had the time and motivation to take the hours required to build my case, but it would be rejected anyway, so here are the basics:

There is a conspiracy in the minds and hearts of those leading this gay-marriage movement. This conspiracy is the same one that exists in the hearts of the leaders of communist/socialist/fascist revolutions, and all despotic dictators. This conspiracy was started by Satan, and is at its heart a spiritual one- one that cannot be discerned by those unenlightened by the Spirit of GOD and wisdom. This conspiracy aims to tear down anything that typifies GOD and CHRIST and seeks to build up the kingdom of the devil, which seeks to take the rights and agency of man away from him. Those at the very highest echelons of these conspiracy know more or less what they are doing, but they cannot let the average person know. Therefore, using the flattering power of human language they trick their billions of followers into thinking that their cause is for the "greater good" and for the "progression" of society. This conspiracy has existed in the hearts of man since Cain slew Abel, and we are about to see its various masks come off and the anti-christ rise in terrible power.

You may laugh at this as you did at my former post, Soulsearcher, but I ask you to be respectful enough not to misuse the laugh button for this purpose.

I was laughing at the 5 year comment as i found it funny.

I guess i often wonder why in a country where people are so vocal about their faith and their freedom to worship the deity they choose, and fight so hard for those rights that the people who fight to be from a faith they do not agree with are labeled any different. I've listened to people on this site state their views on sharia law and how they would never accept it, how it doesn't align with their morals and faith, yet they can't understand why others fight the very same battle against being subject to a moral code they do not hold to be true.

In the end I'm a sinner, great I'll accept that, but so is every person. If we fought so hard to legislate every sin then where would we be? I also wonder when the Christian moral code will go after the bigger enemies to traditional family well being. Drinking causes much more harm to traditional families than gays ever will, there is clear proof of this, not just speculation like much of the arguments against gay marriage. It's easy for someone outside the situation to claim conspiracy and evil intent, but even your own church knows better. They were accused of the same things and yet it didn't stop them from following what they thought was right til they were forced. Were the accusations made against the church and leaders while the fight against polygamy true or was if just the view of those on the outside who thought they knew better and wanted those they thought were evil to conform? You say the conspiracy aims to take rights and agency away from man and yet to men that's exactly what your side is fighting. I'd like to see same sex partners have the right to be protected when they spend their lives together, to not know fear from the government when the hard times come and one partner is ruled to not matter even when they are the world to the other partner. I'd like to see them have the agency to pick who they love and spend their lives together even if it's not the right choice in the eyes of others with out people fighting to make it harder.

[Wingnut]

Agreed, but I think the situation is more serious than the common man realizes. As in, death-and-destruction-within-five-years imminent.

Huh?

[Dravin]

Huh?

We should make sure LM gets that on his calender of predictions.

[carlimac]

I've said this before, and I'm sure I'll say it again. Legalizing same sex marriage will hardly have any effect on the country's "wickedness quotient." Same sex relationships are already culturally acceptable. If that was going to be the straw that broke the camel's back, something would have happened already.

Says you. That doesn't happen to be God's opinon though.

[prophetofdoom]

I tend to agree that biblical scale calamities are coming soon. Not just because of the gay marriage issue per se.

I believe that wickedness, in general, is increasing. For example, most people I work with, live with g/f or b/f without any thought of marriage in the future. I am seeing in an overall increase in the amount of children being born out of wedlock.. it is becoming the cultural norm. Look at the sitcoms.. The Secret Life of An American Teenager.. glorifying sex before marriage.

The amount of abortions in the United States is estimated to be at 40 million since Roe vs. Wade. The iniquity level is increasing at an alarming rate.

[mightynancy]

It's happening already.

Marauding Gay Hordes Drag Thousands Of Helpless Citizens From Marriages After Obama Drops Defense Of Marriage Act | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[carlimac]

It's happening already.

Marauding Gay Hordes Drag Thousands Of Helpless Citizens From Marriages After Obama Drops Defense Of Marriage Act | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Ha ha ha -plop!

Seriously, the problem is not so much that hetero marriages would be destroyed immediately. (That happens all on it's own- selfishness being the biggest detriment.) But that the whole fabric of the family- the basic unit of society- will be weakened further. I feel like kids are in the greatest danger. Satan is at the top of his game when we are indifferent and casual about the prophets words. That flaxen cord thing... it's real!

[Dravin]

Ha ha ha -plop!

Seriously, the problem is not so much that hetero marriages would be destroyed immediately. (That happens all on it's own- selfishness being the biggest detriment.) But that the whole fabric of the family- the basic unit of society- will be weakened further. I feel like kids are in the greatest danger. Satan is at the top of his game when we are indifferent and casual about the prophets words. That flaxen cord thing... it's real!

What exactly, in your thoughts, is the mechanism for that? Just a general relaxation of what is and isn't considered acceptable in a society and the 'leaking' of that into the family? Or something more specific? You hear that concern voiced a lot but the mechanism is kinda left as an exercise for the reader even when coming from a General Authority.

You have:

1. Legalization of homosexual marriage.

2. ?

3. Weakened families.

I've never really had point 2 explained to me.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Dravin

[carlimac]

It doesn't really need to be explained. All that's needed is our faith in the prophets of old and now. If we believe and follow them, we'll be protected. That's all the explanation I need.

[Soulsearcher]

It doesn't really need to be explained. All that's needed is our faith in the prophets of old and now. If we believe and follow them, we'll be protected. That's all the explanation I need.

Except you are trying to make legal arguments. Doma is a law that's being claimed unconstitutional, Prop 8 was a political move. These things can't just be put in place because one god out of many who are worshiped in America says. There needs to be facts, proof and a certain standard met to make dogma into law. If you are unwilling to bow down to Zeus why can you not understand there are those who will not bow down to your god, and understand that the constitution seems to make it so people are protected from being forced to follow someone elses religion against their will?

[Dravin]

It doesn't really need to be explained. All that's needed is our faith in the prophets of old and now. If we believe and follow them, we'll be protected. That's all the explanation I need.

So the answer to point 2 is the ?. Noted.

[carlimac]

Except you are trying to make legal arguments. Doma is a law that's being claimed unconstitutional, Prop 8 was a political move. These things can't just be put in place because one god out of many who are worshiped in America says. There needs to be facts, proof and a certain standard met to make dogma into law. If you are unwilling to bow down to Zeus why can you not understand there are those who will not bow down to your god, and understand that the constitution seems to make it so people are protected from being forced to follow someone elses religion against their will?

I'm not making any legal argument at all. I'm speaking purely from MY religious point of view. I'm just repeating what the prophets have said and I believe them. It's as simple as that. I'm not going to argue this either because it's proven to be fruitless. I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the proclamation to the family. According to the Plan of Salvation which I believe is the plan created by OUR creator, marriage is between a man and a woman only.

[Soulsearcher]

I'm not making any legal argument at all. I'm speaking purely from MY religious point of view. I'm just repeating what the prophets have said and I believe them. It's as simple as that. I'm not going to argue this either because it's proven to be fruitless. I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the proclamation to the family. According to the Plan of Salvation which I believe is the plan created by OUR creator, marriage is between a man and a woman only.

And yet the entire point of the thread is the legal and political aspects. So why legally should anyone be forced to live by the words of your god? Or are you saying that it doesn't matter outside of the religious perspective and there's no reason to stop it outside of religious grounds?