When does it become walking on eggs shells?

[Jennarator]

My son will be baptized in a couple weeks. My ex-husband is not worthy to baptize him, nor does he have any desire to become worthy to do it. My ex has requested that my husband NOT do it.

I can totally understand that, and wasn't planning on having him do it, out of simple consideration. Funny thing is, my ex didn't even want to attend the baptism. I did convince him to come since my son really wanted him to.

My dad is going to baptize him.

My son wants my husband to do it, and I convinced him how cool it would be if my dad did it. He is now happy with that.

My son now wants my husband to do the confirmation. I think I have my son convinced that it would be cool if my dad did that, too. But he does still kind of want my husband to do it.

At what point am I bending over backward too much? Do I walk on egg shells and continue to convince my son to have my dad do the confimation, too, so my ex doesn't throw a fit? (He will likely throw a doozy, and in public.) Or do I do what my son would rather do and have my husband do it?

(It might help to know that leagally I can do what I want. I have sole custoty, and although I don't have to even let the kids see him, I do because I think cutting the kids off, completely would be hard on the kids. They can only see him if there is someone supervising.)

I know the most important thing is that it gets done, and by someone who is worthy. And I don't know if this is really going to be an issue, since I think I have my son somewhat convinced to have my dad do it, but I don't want him to feel like I am trying to change his mind, when my husband is worthy to do it. When teaching him, I taught it can be someone important to you that has the authority, and is worthy.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

You have my sympathy and I think (and hope) you'll get by this particular issue. It really doesn't make any real effective difference who does what (I'm sure you know that). Please your kid, please yourself, please your ex- -- none of this has anything to do with it, really.

But, IMHO, at some time, as disturbing and troubling as it may turn out to be, you've got to tell your ex to bug off.

[Jennarator]

Thank you for the reply.

I know that the most important thing is to make sure it gets done, correctly. :)

Haha....telling my ex to bug off is a completely different thread, that I am too chicken to start.

[NeuroTypical]

My ex has requested that my husband NOT do it.

I can totally understand that, and wasn't planning on having him do it, out of simple consideration.

I'm not sure why there was a big long post after this. You were already planning to have your current husband, your kid's stepdad, not baptize your son. Right? If that was already your plan, how come the big deal about bending over backwards and walking on eggshells and whantot? If it was simple consideration to not have stepdad do the baptism, how is it not a matter of simple consideration to have him not do the confirmation?

I don't have any answers, other than to suggest the adults, to the best of their ability, do what is in the best interests of the kids, who didn't ask for the extra burden. Divorce does not mean the relationship ends. It just means everything gets a lot more complicated since now you need to juggle more adults.

[Jennarator]

Try telling that to my ex.

I am also trying to do right by my son.

[applepansy]

You're walking on eggshells.

[Jennarator]

Haha....I guess I am!

Some call it co-dependant.

[applepansy]

Do what is best for your children. That your ex can't see the kids without supervision says a lot about him as a parent. It also says you have sole custody and he has visitation? Does he see the kids?

[classylady]

You have my sympathy, Jennarator. You are walking on eggshells. It sounds to me like your son and his step-dad have a good relationship. And it seems to me like your ex doesn't like this. How is he going to stop a good relationship between them from happening? Not allow the step-father to baptize or confirm the boy? Sounds like it's too late, the good relationship between them is already there.

Why cater to your ex? Yes, he is the father of your son, but it sounds like he has made some poor decisions that has led to the predicament he's in. There are consequences to choices, and one of the consequences may be divorce, and if children are involved, then step-parents may come into play, and your children may come to love a step-parent. I understand that may be a hard pill to swallow. I see the baptism or confirmation as a good bonding moment that could happen between your son and his step-father--your husband--the man your son probably interacts with more than his birth father. Why deny the two of them that bonding moment?

If the father was worthy to baptize/confirm his son, it would be a different matter. But, he isn't. It's very hard to know where to draw the line.

Edited March 16, 2011 by classylady
clarification

[Cuda]

It sounds like to me you are just trying to be considerate of everyone's feelings. You should be commended for that. Too often ex's will go out of their way to make life miserable for one another, sometimes at the expense of their children. You seem to be going the extra mile to avoid conflict, something I think our Savior would do.

You seem to have worked out an acceptable arrangement.

[LDSVALLEY]

If your son remains active in the gospel then he will be following the path of the Priesthood. If your son has enough understanding to be baptized then he can understand that no matter how great his Dad might be (or not be but don't use that) that he is not able to use his Priesthood at this time because of things between him and God.

While your tactic might seem easier and less harmful in the short term it simply delays the inevitable conversation about worthiness. And if you don't stress the importance of the Priesthood and being worthy your son will not take it seriously. What will happen when your son wants a blessing or his Dad to take him to the temple in a few years etc.

You can do it in a kind clear manner that does not damage the father son relationship. But from experience, (I had an alcoholic Father, my parents divorced, wife and I only members in either family, 3 children.) not being upfront and honest causes more harm in the long term even when they seem to accept it. 8 year old's are not unaware of what is going on especially after a divorce.

[MorningStar]

If the ordinance doesn't mean anything to your ex-husband, then he's being petty. If it means something, he could strive to become worthy and be there during other significant moments of your son's life. Should be a joyful time. Sorry to hear your ex is making it unpleasant.

[Guest]

I would go with what the son wants more than what the ex wants.

So, your husband doesn't do the baptism, out of simple consideration. That's cool. Him not doing the confirmation either is bending backwards. I'd go do what your son wants on this case.

Time to thicken the spine and start saying, No, to the ex. :)

[hiddentreasures]

When my son was 8 (and me and my h were still married) my son expressly requested my h not do it. We talked him into it. He is still resentful about it. I would allow your son to chose who he wants.

[classylady]

Another person you need to consider is your current husband. How does he feel? Is he feeling bad because he is not involved with the baptism/confirmation? What kind of relationship does he have with your son? If it is close, then of course your son would want him involved, and I would assume your husband would want to participate. Will your husband feel like you are siding with your ex instead of him? I think these are all questions you need to consider. And if your son wants your husband to do the confirming, I would strongly consider that request. It is your sons baptism and confirmation. It would be a wonderful way for son and step-father to have good memories together. Some step-parent and step-child relationships are so strained. And especially if your husband is really the father figure in your sons life, what an honor that would be to him.

[Iggy]

Will the confirmation take place immediately after baptism? Or on the following Sunday?

Does ex attend church, same ward?

Have the confirmation on the Sunday following the baptism, and have step-dad and grandpa, along with any other priesthood holders who feel the spirit nudging them, confirm him.

If ex does attend, and throws a fit, it is on him and no one else, and he is going to have a LARGE audience to play to. On the other end of the stick, your son is going to have a LARGE support group backing and protecting him.

BTW- I believe it is an Enabler rather than co-dependent.

[rameumptom]

Sometimes maintaining the peace is more important. You have to pick your battles, and who baptizes the child is in most cases less important as to whether it will cause fireworks.

Later, when your son is older and able to more speak for his own desires, he can have your current spouse ordain him as a priest and/or elder.

[Jennarator]

Wow so many thing to consider. This is why I am stuck.

I do try, sometimes to hard to please everyone.

My ex does NOT attend church at all. (And he lives 7 hours away but will be coming to the baptism, since me and my ex-mother-in -law talked him inti it.)

My son get along great with my husband, most of the time, only there is not yet a huge bond, no hugging good night or anything.

I do think it would mean something to my son to have the confirmation done my my husband, but I like I can talk him into my dad, and I hope he won't resent it. But that is why I'm still kind of in the air....

My husband would like to do the confirmation, only he understands the politics behind it and doesn't mind just standing in the circle.

I will talking it over with my husband and pray hard.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. Every bit of it is being taken into consideration. :)

[applepansy]

You have some good advice here from great people. I would like to add one more thing and then I'll shut up. :)

Eight year olds are SMART! and very aware of what is going on. When my nephew was 8 and ready to be baptized he "consented" to allow his Dad to baptize him because the bishop told him it would be best. His parents are divorced (nasty divorce and the child understand why his Dad isn't worthy). Anyway, the child put his foot down about the confirmation. He wanted grandpa to give him the Gift of the Holy Ghost. He stood up to his Dad's wrath (and it was wrath). Two years later he still takes crap from his dad about it. But...he stands strong. He knows the power of the priesthood. He knows how sacred it is. He made an adult decision and stands by it to this day.

Don't sell your son short.

[Iggy]

My son get along great with my husband, most of the time, only there is not yet a huge bond, no hugging good night or anything. :)

It has been my observation that boys at the age of 8 or 9, no longer want to physically be hugged &/or kissed by the male parental unit -

So I wouldn't be overly concerned about that- How long have you been married to present husband? Is present husband a hugger? My husband isn't, yet his next younger brother is. Me, I come from a family of huggers- male and female. We also bestow kisses on each other and all the children, but not if they pull back - then it is an 'Air Kiss'.

If present husband is good with being in the circle at confirmation, then I say Go For It.

I was greatly impressed when a young woman in my last ward was getting confirmed- she was 13, and her family were not members, the Bishop when he announced that she would be confirmed, he asked that any of the priesthood holders, who felt the Spirit moving them, to please join the circle. This was a ward of over 300 members, and 10 priesthood holders stood at the same time, my husband among them. So with the two missionaries, the three of the Bishopric, there were 15 men circled around this young lady. I had goosebumps all over for the rest of the block! (my personal sign the Holy Spirit is near, very near.)

So, perhaps you and present husband can talk with your Bishop, relate the situation, and ask him to ask the priesthood holders in the congregation to join the circle. That way, exMIL and ex, if he attends Sacrament meeting, will see that the congregation is very supportive of your son.

[Gwen]

maybe the first mistake was talking the dad into coming. if he really doesn't care then let sleeping dogs lie. but it's to late for that. i think it would have been easier to explain to the son why dad didn't come (while making dad look as good as possible in the end) than why dad doesn't want step-dad to do any ordinances. but that bridge is already crossed.

i do understand your intentions. i have a step-son that i care a lot about. his mom is not active in the church and despises much of it (her family is active). my step-son is very involved in church (as much as she will let him when at her house). these concerns will come up all the time. (trust me it will, i'm 7 yrs ahead of you on this road.)

maybe the ex-mother-in-law can talk to the dad and explain it's the kids day, mom and dad don't get to decide who does the ordinances. Let him know how much it means to him to have his dad there even though he knows he can't do the ordinance. see if he will be more reasonable.

some thoughts that might help dad to feel better is make sure he has the chance to participate and make some simple decisions..... like would he be willing to bring some refreshments? most baptisms i've been to have a standard seating of kid up front, mom on one side, dad on the other (dad usually doing the ordinance, if not seated as appropriate to relationship). does he want to sit next to the son during the talks and such? you could have dad on one side, mom on the other, step-dad beside mom. depending on who is baptizing (if not step-dad) they could sit next to dad or behind your son.

i know the seating may seem trivial but i've been in the step-mom seat when seating wasn't considered beyond mom, dad, kid. it can actually be a lasting memory, for good or bad.

since dad has expressed objections to step-dad doing it i take that to mean how much this really means to him even though he's not saying it. he knows baptism should be a father child experience. he's obviously messed up if he can't have unsupervised visits but that doesn't mean he doesn't love his kids anymore. he's still dad and not immune from feeling insecure that step-dad is somehow replacing him. i would guess that's why he doesn't want him doing the "dad" things. giving him the reassurance that he's not forgotten as dad, he gets the dad seat, etc might go a long way to getting a compromise for what the kid wants.

a comment on what others have been saying about the ordinance is the most important thing. that's true. but there is nothing as special as your own baptism (ordinance). you don't get do overs, this is important. let him have it. if he gets exactly what he wants yes he may forget over time the details. but if he's manipulated and disappointed because of how things happen he won't forget. human nature remembers hurt with a lot more clarity than when things go right.

good luck

[Jennarator]

Gwen,

That's exactly what I am talking about. His dad is a creap, but he still wants to be part of his life. My son wants his dad there, and that is why I talked him into it. Also, being married to him for ten years, I know he wants to be there. He even said the only reason he didn't want to come was becasue my husband was going ot be there.

Not a bad idea to give him the dad seat or somehow make him involved. I did invite my ex to the luncheon, afterwards, but he declined. He and his family will be taking the kids to dinner the night before the baptism. (As long as I have a note from my ex's mom saying she will supervise 100% of the time.) So they will get some "special" time to celebrate the baptism together.

When my daughter was baptized, I was not re-married, yet, it was easier. She was the only kids being baptized so we got to pick who did what. So I have my ex give a prayer. Now we are in a stake that does teh all kids once a month thing, so we have no say. I will try to find a way to get him involved.

Thanks, again, for the good advice. I know it seems trivial to some, but I am trying (perhaps too hard?) to please everyone, and make sure no one is umcomfortable.

[Gwen]

Gwen,

That's exactly what I am talking about. His dad is a creap, but he still wants to be part of his life. My son wants his dad there, and that is why I talked him into it. Also, being married to him for ten years, I know he wants to be there. He even said the only reason he didn't want to come was becasue my husband was going ot be there.

Malachi 4: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,

Malachi 4 

every class i've been in that has talked about this scripture the focus is on the heart of the children to the fathers and about family history work. this scripture names both and i don't think that's an accident. our genealogy goes 2 directions. god has never put all the focus on the past. the bloodline of some births were planned in advance, with thought to the future, not the past. i believe having kids makes us better ppl. our hearts turn to the children and we step up to things we may not otherwise do.

dad's heart is turned to his son (even if he is making massive mistakes), that may very well be what brings him back one day. it is important to support that relationship. i'm glad you are trying to do that, it's not easy.

When my daughter was baptized, I was not re-married, yet, it was easier. She was the only kids being baptized so we got to pick who did what. So I have my ex give a prayer. Now we are in a stake that does teh all kids once a month thing, so we have no say. I will try to find a way to get him involved.

Thanks, again, for the good advice. I know it seems trivial to some, but I am trying (perhaps too hard?) to please everyone, and make sure no one is umcomfortable.

a little off topic but..... maybe it's because i've never lived in an area big enough to require "mass baptisms" but that concept gives me the creeps. the whole idea to me fits very well into the mold many anti's want to push us into. personally i don't think i could do it. you can do a baptism anywhere you want. i'd pack up the family and go visit somewhere else for the baptism (grandparent's ward or something). another option is you don't have to do them in the church, could be baptized in a lake or somewhere special. i would get creative. lol

[Jennarator]

I wish I could be more creative. Too late, now as the dates and location are all set, due to traveling family.

But I do feel that these "mass baptisms" are a little weird, too. But I live in IDaho, now. That's how it is. :)

[prettyrose]

This might be kinda out there. Would your ex not object to perhaps your childs favorite uncle to baptize him? I'm sure that your ex liked someone on your side of the family right?

It might make things a little easier since the child would get a win win situation. His dad there with him and his favorite relative to baptize him.