dahlia Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in current events, but since I'm asking about an LDS practice, I guess this thread is as good a place as any. Some of you may be aware of 'Baby Joseph' who was moved to a hospital in the States after his doctors in Canada would not perform a tracheotomy, which I think would have allowed him to come home to die. I don't want to talk about the medical/end of life issues here. Anyway, I just read that he was just baptized by a Catholic priest. Fine by me. What I do want to know is, what do LDS do with terminally ill children who are too young for baptism at age 8? Do they baptize them anyway? Just give them a blessing? Arrange for them to be baptized after death? Maybe it's my old habits dying hard, but I think I would be more comforted if my dying child were baptized, but maybe that's not the LDS view. Thanks for any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Little Children and Baptism From latter-day revelation, we know that little children are redeemed through the mercy of Jesus Christ. The Lord said, “They cannot sin, for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children, until they begin to become accountable before me” (see D&C 29:46–47). They are not to be baptized until they reach the age of accountability, which the Lord has revealed to be eight years of age (see D&C 68:27; Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 17:11). Anyone who claims that little children need baptism “denieth the mercies of Christ, and setteth at naught the atonement of him and the power of his redemption” (Moroni 8:20; see also Moroni 8:8–19, 21–24). Source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Are all little children saved automatically in the celestial kingdom?To this question the answer is a thunderous yes, which echoes and re-echoes from one end of heaven to the other. Jesus taught it to his disciples. Mormon said it over and over again. Many of the prophets have spoken about it, and it is implicit in the whole plan of salvation. If it were not so the redemption would not be infinite in its application. And so, as we would expect, Joseph Smith’s Vision of the Celestial Kingdom contains this statement: “And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.” (D&C 137:10)Source Edited March 23, 2011 by Connie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I have miscarried three times. The last time the baby was old enough that modern medicine would have maybe saved the baby. Our doctrine comforts my heart. Thank you Connie. You are always so good to post the references. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think a blessing on the child for comfort is appropriate, and I think a personal blessing of comfort and strength to other family members may be in order as well. It sounds like you might need a bit of strength and comfort at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_J Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in current events, but since I'm asking about an LDS practice, I guess this thread is as good a place as any.Some of you may be aware of 'Baby Joseph' who was moved to a hospital in the States after his doctors in Canada would not perform a tracheotomy, which I think would have allowed him to come home to die. I don't want to talk about the medical/end of life issues here. Anyway, I just read that he was just baptized by a Catholic priest. Fine by me. What I do want to know is, what do LDS do with terminally ill children who are too young for baptism at age 8? Do they baptize them anyway? Just give them a blessing? Arrange for them to be baptized after death? Maybe it's my old habits dying hard, but I think I would be more comforted if my dying child were baptized, but maybe that's not the LDS view. Thanks for any info.Dahlia, as others have said, the baby could receive a blessing, however as far as baptism, we know through the scriptures that it is unnecessary to baptize that infant, since, through the atonement of Jesus Christ, they are saved. Baptism is therefore unnecessary for the infant, and would not do anything or give them something that they don't already have. Be comforted in knowing that they are saved without needing baptism, through Christ's atonement. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahlia Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Dahlia, as others have said, the baby could receive a blessing, however as far as baptism, we know through the scriptures that it is unnecessary to baptize that infant, since, through the atonement of Jesus Christ, they are saved.Yeah, but you should know, those Catholic roots die hard! Would I 'feel' better if the baby were baptized, yeah, probably. Do I understand intellectually, and actually thank God for, the doctrine that unbaptized babies are welcomed into the Celestial Kingdom? You betcha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_J Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yeah, but you should know, those Catholic roots die hard! Would I 'feel' better if the baby were baptized, yeah, probably. Do I understand intellectually, and actually thank God for, the doctrine that unbaptized babies are welcomed into the Celestial Kingdom? You betcha! Yep I understand completely. For me though, I'm glad to know that we don't have to worry about infants and whether they would be saved or not if they did not receive baptism (since Catholic teaching has no doctrine as to what happens to unbaptized infants, leaving it at hope in the mercy of God, as per the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the International Theological Commission of the CC), since they are already saved through the atoning sacrifice of our Savior, Jesus Christ. But I understand what you're thinking, as far as "doing" something. A blessing would of course be ideal in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Yeah, but you should know, those Catholic roots die hard! Would I 'feel' better if the baby were baptized, yeah, probably. Do I understand intellectually, and actually thank God for, the doctrine that unbaptized babies are welcomed into the Celestial Kingdom? You betcha!While we don't baptize children--either while they're alive, or via proxy in temples after their death--we do seal them to their parents posthumously as part of our temple work.Grab a kleenex, and then read this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahlia Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 For me though, I'm glad to know that we don't have to worry about infants and whether they would be saved or not if they did not receive baptism (since Catholic teaching has no doctrine as to what happens to unbaptized infants, leaving it at hope in the mercy of God, as per the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the International Theological Commission of the CC)When I was growing up, unbaptized babies went to Limbo. When my son was born with some disconcerting (but fortunately temporary) issues 33 yrs ago, I wanted him baptized right away. It took the hospital chaplain to give me enough medical information to let me feel comfortable waiting for him to be baptized. Now apparently there's doctrine and accepted custom, but I was taught there was a Limbo and there's no way I was going to let that happen to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_J Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 When I was growing up, unbaptized babies went to Limbo. When my son was born with some disconcerting (but fortunately temporary) issues 33 yrs ago, I wanted him baptized right away. It took the hospital chaplain to give me enough medical information to let me feel comfortable waiting for him to be baptized. Now apparently there's doctrine and accepted custom, but I was taught there was a Limbo and there's no way I was going to let that happen to him.Right, I understand. Today, the Catholic Church is moving away from the Limbo teaching, and towards a belief in "hoping" for the mercy of God in the case of the death of unbaptized infants, without saying one way or the other what happens to them. I must say, I'm grateful for the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ which teaches that unbaptized infants that die are saved, since they don't need baptism in the first place, thanks to the atonement. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Hasn't Catholicism always taught that the prayers of the righteous and/or intercession by the Saints can move a soul out of limbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_J Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Hasn't Catholicism always taught that the prayers of the righteous and/or intercession by the Saints can move a soul out of limbo?No, Catholicism teaches that we can pray for souls in Purgatory. Purgatory is a place/state of cleansing where temporal punishment is removed, and one is purified before entrance to Heaven. All souls in Purgatory are saved and will be in Heaven at some point. Prayers for the souls in Purgatory are thought to help them out of the state and into Heaven.In contrast, limbo was/is a theological speculation (that was once widely taught) that teaches that the souls in limbo are not in Heaven, aren't being purified before entering Heaven in Purgatory, but they aren't in Hell either. It is instead a state of "natural" peace (in contrast to Heaven where you are in the eternal, unmediated presence of God). Limbo of Infants was speculated on because an unbaptized infant that dies would still have original sin, however they haven't committed any actual sins to sent themselves to Hell. In contrast to Purgatory, souls in Limbo of Infants never will go to Heaven, since they still have original sin. Edited March 25, 2011 by Jason_J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Moroni 8Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Moroni 8Â*The link title didn't come across well: Its Moroni chapter 8.thank you skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in current events, but since I'm asking about an LDS practice, I guess this thread is as good a place as any.Some of you may be aware of 'Baby Joseph' who was moved to a hospital in the States after his doctors in Canada would not perform a tracheotomy, which I think would have allowed him to come home to die. I don't want to talk about the medical/end of life issues here. Anyway, I just read that he was just baptized by a Catholic priest. Fine by me. What I do want to know is, what do LDS do with terminally ill children who are too young for baptism at age 8? Do they baptize them anyway? Just give them a blessing? Arrange for them to be baptized after death? Maybe it's my old habits dying hard, but I think I would be more comforted if my dying child were baptized, but maybe that's not the LDS view. Thanks for any info.They don't need to be baptised. Christ covered all innnocents. We are told in the Doctrine and covenants that children do not need to be baptised until they are 8 years old. D&C 68:27Besides we can do baptisms for the dead. No one will be going to Hell because they missed the chance to be baptised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlf9999 Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) Can a person sin in ignorance? I have always been taught they can't. In order to be held accountable we must know we are doing wrong and do it anyway. Edited April 8, 2011 by jlf9999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Can a person sin in ignorance? I have always been taught they can't. In order to be held accountable we must know we are doing wrong and do it anyway.No but they can't be saved in ignorance either. To sin requires the knowledge of what you are doing is wrong. At some point wall will know what is right and what is wrong, at that point the deciding factor is whether they will repent or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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