Some people.. Ugh.

[Bini]

A coworker of mine came to me with a vent this morning. A few months ago she went into the hospital due to bad kidneys. She was there four days and last minute arrangements were made for her two kids (a boy and a girl) to stay with her brother and his wife. They also have children that are around the same age. Well the whole thing was kind of sort of a bad idea to begin with. My coworker and her SIL do not get along. I'm not sure of the details but I'm assuming it's mostly a personality clash. When this emergency came up, she didn't want her kids to stay with the SIL but her brother insisted they take the children while my coworker and her husband were at the hospital. Apparently the SIL wasn't thrilled about the setup but agreed. After the whole hospital ordeal, the kids were finally picked up by her husband and brought home. They unpack their bags and it's noticed that their 10-year old daughter was missing about 12 pieces of clothing (mostly tops). My coworker called her SIL to inquire about them and was non-chalantly told: "The girls made a deal and traded clothing. Your daughter was just as happy with the exchange as my daughter." Then my coworker said: "She doesn't know any better." And the SIL's response was: "That's not my problem." My coworker's daughter has Down Syndrome and is easily manipulated.

I told her to talk to her brother and see if it can be resolved that way. I didn't know what else to suggest. What would be a better approach? My coworker is very upset over this.

PS. Sorry for the bad sentencing structure. I'm using my phone..

[applepansy]

Most definitely she needs to talk to her brother. The clothing needs to be returned. End of story.

Good Grief!!!

EDIT: GRRRRRR... It is her problem. She's the adult and what happened was stealing from a child with disability during a family crisis. Not good!!!

[Guest]

How important were the clothes?

Things like these, I'd write off the whole thing as not-worth-the-bother, buy new tops for my girl and call it a day. It's just not worth the whole drama.

[slamjet]

The trading got so bad in our house with the oldest taking advantage of the youngest that we put a blanket ban on all of it. Now, if the oldest want something, they have to go buy it. Much more peaceful existence.

[classylady]

How important were the clothes?

Things like these, I'd write off the whole thing as not-worth-the-bother, buy new tops for my girl and call it a day. It's just not worth the whole drama.

I have to agree here. Sounds like the SIL isn't an easy one to get along with. If it was me, I'd drop the issue just to keep peace in the family. (But, then I'm very non-confrontational). I would have to ask myself, is it worth x amount of dollars to possibly have a major family blow-up? To me it wouldn't be worth it.

[Wingnut]

How important were the clothes?

Things like these, I'd write off the whole thing as not-worth-the-bother, buy new tops for my girl and call it a day. It's just not worth the whole drama.

I have to agree here. Sounds like the SIL isn't an easy one to get along with. If it was me, I'd drop the issue just to keep peace in the family. (But, then I'm very non-confrontational). I would have to ask myself, is it worth x amount of dollars to possibly have a major family blow-up? To me it wouldn't be worth it.

The issue isn't the clothing. The issue is the manipulation of the girl with Down's Syndrome, and the inappropriate behavior toward her.

[Backroads]

The issue isn't the clothing. The issue is the manipulation of the girl with Down's Syndrome, and the inappropriate behavior toward her.

I would take the niece aside and explain to her that she can't treat her cousin that way, that her cousin might not understand.

[classylady]

The issue isn't the clothing. The issue is the manipulation of the girl with Down's Syndrome, and the inappropriate behavior toward her.

I don't know, how far do you push the issue? The co-worker already talked to the SIL, and so I assume SIL knows how the mother of the Down Syndrome child feels. It's obviously not appropriate to take a disabled child's clothing away from her. And maybe I'm just naive, but I'm thinking there was some underlying issue here for the SIL to "trade" clothes between children. It still doesn't make it right, but I'm thinking because of the bad feelings between the two women, the SIL is getting back at the other woman. So, again, I would have to ask myself, is it worth pushing it to perhaps completely destroy any family relationship between them?

[Guest]

The issue isn't the clothing. The issue is the manipulation of the girl with Down's Syndrome, and the inappropriate behavior toward her.

Agreed. But, it's already a fact known to all parties that the SIL is a witch. She's the mother of the other girl that took advantage of the DS child and she found it ok. In that situation, I wouldn't parent her child - that's her job. My job is to protect my girl - which means, not being in that environment unless it's an absolute necessity. As it happens - this was one of those absolute necessities... so yeah, she lost 12 shirts in the process. Oh well. Hopefully my husband will learn something from it.

[classylady]

I'm reminded of the scripture Luke 6:29 "And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also."

So, I'm thinking, maybe the coworker could call SIL and say, "Obviously your daughter needs some clothes. I have some pants here that she might like too". But, then, naughty me, I'm being kind of spiteful in my tone. So if I truly wanted to be Christlike, it wouldn't be said in a spiteful tone, but rather with true love and good intent.

Edited March 30, 2011 by classylady

[Wingnut]

Turning the other cheek doesn't mean allowing people to take advantage of you, your family, or your child(ren) who doesn't know any better.

[applepansy]

I agree there is a deeper family issue here. Ignoring it isn't going to solve the problem. All that will happen is that the inevitable confrontation will be postponed and end up bigger down the road. Addressing the issues head on will bring it to light and there will be resolution.

I've lived family issues. I wish I had confronted it head on instead of enduring 30 years of passive aggressive behavior. My husband feels the same way.

Turning the other cheek doesn't mean standing there and being repeatedly beat.

[classylady]

So, how is this all done in a Christlike manner? I guess, that's what I'm trying to get across. How do we walk the fine line between being charitable to one another, and then at the same time, defending ourselves and our children?

There are times when I do let others take advantage of me and my family. Not in the manner of being so meek, that I allow them to walk all over me. But, rather, because I think that is how Christ would have done it. If I can offer my extended family a place to live, clothes to wear, food to eat, I do it gladly. Even, when I know I'm being taken advantage of. My husband and I have opened up our home to a number of nieces and nephews, coworkers, friends of my children, etc. We give them a place to stay, and allow them to eat our food, and if needed, even clothing, and transportation to and from work. But, we do it out of concern and I would hope love. I've paid for doctor's visits, prescriptions, gas money, etc. And we've done this, even when we can barely put food on the table for our own family. My youngest son has moved out of his own bedroom on several different occasions and slept on the family room couch for months at a time, in order to make room for someone who needs/wants a place to stay. Are we being taken advantage of? Perhaps--and in some cases--probably. But, I don't mind.

In the OP situation, how can this woman, in a Christlike manner, defend her daughter, and keep the peace within the family? Can it even be done? I believe, if she (and I have no idea if she's LDS), prayerfully tackles the situation, she would be guided in how to solve the situation. Not with just the "trading" of the clothes, and her DS daughter being taken advantage of, but also in the relationship she has with her SIL.

Edited March 30, 2011 by classylady

[Bini]

Great thoughts on this from everyone. The responses have given me two sides to think about.

These families are not LDS. I'm not sure if they believe in God or even subscribe to any religion. I don't know my coworker's brother and his wife but I know my coworker. She's a nice lady that stretches herself much too thin, between juggling family matters and her career (as she is the primary breadwinner). Generally, my coworker is quiet about home-life. She doesn't join in on the natter with us other women gossiping, ranting and raving about this or that in our personal lives. So when she does bring up something, it's an issue that has really burdened her, as she's just not the confiding or complaining type.

From what I'm understanding, the "traded" or "exchanged" clothes have never been returned in full. I think she said only 7 pieces of the clothing out of about 12 were returned to her daughter. While this little situation definitely didn't help, it wasn't the taken clothes that really stung, it was more the attitude that her SIL radiates. I could share another story that my coworker shared with me displaying how unthoughtful her SIL is but since I (we) only get the one side of the story, I think it's best to chalk their relationship up as being a personality clash (regardless of who is right and who is wrong). But having said that, I think using children as "ammo" against each other is just appalling. So I absolutely feel the SIL was and is out of line for not stepping up to the plate as a responsible adult and addressing the issue. Yes, kids will be kids but when you see your child doing something that is unethical and or immoral, that's a great time for a teaching opportunity.

Classylady, to touch base on what you had commented on. I admire you for the efforts you put forth to aid those in less fortunate positions. It takes a special kind of person to do this and unconditionally at that. But I believe there are still boundaries that one must consider when going out on a limb for someone that is failing (in whatever sense that may be). As with all things, there must be a certain degree of limitations upheld because otherwise, you're going to find yourself in a pitfall in which you can't pull yourself out of. Do what you can but also, when you have a family with a spouse and children, you must also think about their needs and limitations. It's important that we acknowledge we have limitations and enforce them when the weight of charity is beyond our capability.

I think in the situation of my coworker and her SIL, it was only a charitable act from the brother's standpoint and less so from his wife (she didn't want to take the kids). I absolutely believe it's important to address serious issues (and taking advantage of a child with a developmental disability is one of them) regardless if the topic causes disharmony within the family—it's better than dusting it underneath the rug! I think communication, effective communication, is vital. Keeping the peace just cos you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings never truly solves anything. Hopefully, she can talk this over with her brother and target what made this situation a BIG deal. If he's at all understanding (and from what I'm getting he is), he can sit down with his kids and talk to them about their cousin having difficulty understanding some things due to her Down Syndrome. And on the side, maybe discuss with his wife the importance of keeping the kids out of grown-up "peeves". While the clothes incident was not instigated by the SIL, she certainly used it to her advantage and shrugged it off as "not my problem!".

[beefche]

Ultimately, there isn't anything your friend can do to change SIL. Yes, tell friend to talk to her brother about it--but don't be surprised if he sides with his wife. The only thing you can do is protect your daughter in the future--which may mean asking a coworker to watch your kids instead of your brother.

[a1000tears]

I'm wondering if the clothes are truly important. Sometimes things that are familiar and a regular routine helps kids with disabilities manage their own lives. When they are out of their routine it can cause stress and can result in behaviors that can escalate to a higher level. I'm wondering if anything happened while the SIL was taking care of the kids.

I think that all the adults, spouses and husbands, should sit down and address their issues head on. I suspect that if you were to sit down with the children themselves this would be a non-issue.

[Guest SisterofJared]

I think I'd do a combination of the two... first, forget the clothes that have already been traded. But gently inform the SIL that because of her downs syndrome, the girl doesn't have the maturity to know when a trade is wise or not, and that she has been forbidden to trade in the future. And next time her daughter spends the night with SIL, smile and remind the girls, "Remember, no trading!" That sets a clear boundary for the SIL without dragging up any nastiness from this last trade.

[applepansy]

So, how is this all done in a Christlike manner? I guess, that's what I'm trying to get across. How do we walk the fine line between being charitable to one another, and then at the same time, defending ourselves and our children?

There are times when I do let others take advantage of me and my family. Not in the manner of being so meek, that I allow them to walk all over me. But, rather, because I think that is how Christ would have done it. If I can offer my extended family a place to live, clothes to wear, food to eat, I do it gladly. Even, when I know I'm being taken advantage of. My husband and I have opened up our home to a number of nieces and nephews, coworkers, friends of my children, etc. We give them a place to stay, and allow them to eat our food, and if needed, even clothing, and transportation to and from work. But, we do it out of concern and I would hope love. I've paid for doctor's visits, prescriptions, gas money, etc. And we've done this, even when we can barely put food on the table for our own family. My youngest son has moved out of his own bedroom on several different occasions and slept on the family room couch for months at a time, in order to make room for someone who needs/wants a place to stay. Are we being taken advantage of? Perhaps--and in some cases--probably. But, I don't mind.

In the OP situation, how can this woman, in a Christlike manner, defend her daughter, and keep the peace within the family? Can it even be done? I believe, if she (and I have no idea if she's LDS), prayerfully tackles the situation, she would be guided in how to solve the situation. Not with just the "trading" of the clothes, and her DS daughter being taken advantage of, but also in the relationship she has with her SIL.

Its a hard line to draw. We too have opened our door to family, friends, friends of our children, etc. in much the same way. It takes a commitment to following Christ to do it to the level you describe and that is wonderful.

The situation with the SIL is more than allowing someone homeless to stay over night or giving someone a place to sleep, food to eat when they have none. Where we drew the line is with house rules. No smoking, drinking, drugs. No stealing.

It is possible to gently discuss the issue with the brother. If he sides with the SIL that's his choice. To me that is addressing the situation head on. Arguing with the SIL is not. I also wouldn't allow my children to be alone with the SIL again and I would make that clear to the brother why. If the child didn't have a disability then beyond saying "We don't trade clothes" I probably wouldn't bring it up with anyone but my child. And then still, they wouldn't be staying over night again for any reason.

Just my feelings. I think it is possible to be Christ-like and protect children. Its about attitude.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I'm with Anatess -- you have to decide how much it's worth in angst, strife and conflict to get those tops back. Even if the SIL gives them back, this will remain as an enduring source of angst for the whole family, so the damage is done.

I would go and buy more unless the family is in hardship of some kind and absolutely can't afford it. And I would never have the kids stay at the SIL's place again. If they steal this kids clothes, how else might they treat this kid who lacks skills to defend or stand up for herself. Atrocious behavior on the part of the SIL, really.

[RipplecutBuddha]

replace the twelve shirts as best you can and let the matter drop within the family.

Then....the next time the kids are staying together, gently tell them that trading clothing is no longer allowed.

I agree with the long-term idea that it just isn't worth the heartache of a family blowup. Parents ought to know better, and if they object to the new rule, offer to let the SIL pay the difference that arises from the next 'trade' since you picked up the tab the first time around.