Shocked no one has even brought this news up...

[Blackmarch]

That's excellent news, but it begs a single question:

Having been falsely (and ignorantly) maligned, having had their morality and integrity questioned and besmirched, where do these brethren go to get their reputations back?

Well then they can take a stand next to Joseph smith and many others. For those who trust in the lord it won't be an issue, and those are the people who count. In regards to the church, one hopes that their stake presidents are on top of the matter and are in tune with the Holy SPirit.

This life has never been a promised cruise down easy lane, and it is very unfortunate that such should occur.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Blackmarch

[Vort]

Well then they can take a stand next to Joseph smith and many others. For those who trust in the lord it won't be an issue, and those are the people who count. In regards to the church, one hopes that their stake presidents are on top of the matter and are in tune with the Holy SPirit.

This life has never been a promised cruise down easy lane, and it is very unfortunate that such should occur.

This is cold comfort, akin to telling a rape victim, "Sorry that happened to you, hon, but in the eternities everything will be better." It's a true statement, but it doesn't address the attempt to achieve justice in mortality.

[Blackmarch]

This is cold comfort, akin to telling a rape victim, "Sorry that happened to you, hon, but in the eternities everything will be better." It's a true statement, but it doesn't address the attempt to achieve justice in mortality.

Ya justice in this life tends to suck.

so what do you propose to achieve justice for this, in this life? Go lynch the journalist who wrote the article, and hunt down everyone who is and who will spread false rumors about it and correct their statements or silence them?

Unless you are part of the group of individuals that is directly involved there is not much one can do save saying yea or nay, and perhaps sending a prayer in their direction.

Thats one of the reasons why we have the gospel, and thats why we need to have the spirit, that's why we need to learn to love our enemies, and that is why we need to learn to endure... is becaus crap happens and sometimes theres nothing you can do about it, and nothing can be done about it, except how you react to it.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Blackmarch

[Vort]

Ya justice in this life tends to suck.

so what do you propose to achieve justice for this, in this life? Go lynch the journalist who wrote the article, and hunt down everyone who is and who will spread false rumors about it and correct their statements or silence them?

Unless you are part of the group of individuals that is directly involved there is not much one can do save saying yea or nay, and perhaps sending a prayer in their direction.

Early in this thread, selek brought up the unfair nature of the charges being directed at the Church leaders in this case. Several disagreed and mocked selek; few stood with him/her. Why is that? And when the irresponsible charges leveled or suggested against the leaders were shown to be unfounded, where were all the whisperers who had suggested such things? Did they come back and say, "Oops, look like my insinuations were wrong, guess I have learned a thing or two and will be more careful in the future before I shoot my mouth off"? Or did they simply stop posting, content in the knowledge that their names would not continue to be associated with the slander, even though the content and impression of the slander might live on -- both for those men individually and for the larger leadership, painted as they were with such a broad brush?

[Suzie]

Maybe a lawyer or someone familiar with the laws in Arizona with regards to reporting child abuse could please explain me this part?:

"Arizona law is clear that no priest can disclose any confession even when it concerns child abuse," Kim Farrah, church spokeswoman, said in a statement.

Earlier in this thread someone posted the law:

Arizona Revised Statutes 13-3620 (Edited for clarity [removing legalese redundancy])

"A member of the clergy, who has received a confidential communication or a confession in that person's role as a member of the clergy, in the course of the discipline enjoyed by the church to which the member of the clergy, belongs may withhold reporting of the communication or confession if the member of the clergy, determines that it is reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion. This exemption applies only to the communication or confession and not to personal observations the member of the clergy, may otherwise make of the minor."

Now, the first quote seems to imply a prohibition and the second is saying basically that the Priest doesn't have to report it if they determine it to be reasonable AND necessary within the concepts of religion. So my questions are:

1. Which one is it in this case? Is it FORBIDDEN for Priests to report child abuse to authorities in Arizona OR they're NOT legally forced to do so? (two completely different things).

2. If the Bishops are NOT legally bound to report it and the police has indicated in this case that the Bishops were aware of the abuse taking place, what exactly is "reasonable" and "necessary within the concepts of religion" in this scenario?

[estradling75]

Maybe a lawyer or someone familiar with the laws in Arizona with regards to reporting child abuse could please explain me this part?:

Earlier in this thread someone posted the law:

Now, the first quote seems to imply a prohibition and the second is saying basically that the Priest doesn't have to report it if they determine it to be reasonable AND necessary within the concepts of religion. So my questions are:

1. Which one is it in this case? Is it FORBIDDEN for Priests to report child abuse to authorities in Arizona OR they're NOT legally forced to do so? (two completely different things).

2. If the Bishops are NOT legally bound to report it and the police has indicated in this case that the Bishops were aware of the abuse taking place, what exactly is "reasonable" and "necessary within the concepts of religion" in this scenario?

What case are you trying to make Suzie?? Are you trying to hint at a cover up? Because if so the time between when the Church knew for a fact and the time the molester was arrested was about two weeks according to the facts presented in the article. If it was some kind of coverup they did poorly.

And within that two week period the church was acting to take steps protect the boy. How did they do so... By informing the parents. Guess what the principals and concepts of the religion is to strengthen and support families. Give them the tools and information needed to make good choices for themselves, and to only step in if the family is failing in some way.

The boy's parents were clearly capable of protecting their son. All they needed was the confirmation which the church gave them when it found out.

And yet after the church is cleared by the police you still seem to be looking to throw dirt on the men involved

[Suzie]

What case are you trying to make Suzie?? Are you trying to hint at a cover up? Because if so the time between when the Church knew for a fact and the time the molester was arrested was about two weeks according to the facts presented in the article. If it was some kind of coverup they did poorly.

I'm not hinting anything, I am only asking questions with regards to the law. That's what I'm interested about. What is the problem with asking these questions?

And yet after the church is cleared by the police you still seem to be looking to throw dirt on the men involved

Really? And how exactly I did that in my post?

Edited May 21, 2011 by Suzie

[estradling75]

Really? And how exactly I did that in my post?

Sorry if I read more into your post then you intended

[Mahone]

Here in California, the Catholic Church scandal really changed the completion of reporting. Mainly, because Cardinal Mahone was so adamant about not releasing church records on suspected Priests (not saying good or bad, just that it was the catalyst for changes in the laws). So now, any teacher, shrink of any kind or clergy of any kind MUST report any child abuse to the authorities. They tried to get rid of the statutes of limitations on molestations, but they lost that one so it's still at five years (from what I've been able to find out).

I swear, I didn't do it!