When things go wrong; I am losing the battle.

[The_Phoenix]

I guess I need to ask you some specific questions:

When you come to someone of your own faith with doubts, what exactly are you looking for?

A merciful God.

[The_Phoenix]

Downers is where Jesus Christ did his ministry. I cant be positive and always hang around positive, when I feel down I seek positive, when I see someone down, I try to be the positive. If someone is struggling, I find it helps to tip toe 360 until they are comfortable and ready to talk , but at the same time be positive and to show by example, letting that light shine. I am reminded of the To do and To be talk here.

Phoenix...... Youre unique. We all have our struggles and each person has a level of difficulty they deal with. Whatever is bringing you down, or any person down, HF said he wont put us through something we cant handle. We can get through anything!

I would say what it is, but I will be even less popular.

[Guest]

OK 8 weeks ago I bought a puppy. AKC Golden Retriever. Now what?

Now, everytime you think of how depressed you are, go and play with the puppy and bask in his unquestionable adoration.

You should be back to church thanking God for your many blessings in 3 days.

[The_Phoenix]

Now, everytime you think of how depressed you are, go and play with the puppy and bask in his unquestionable adoration.

You should be back to church thanking God for your many blessings in 3 days.

It could happen, but I don't think it will. I will hold out hope for this to happen, but I missed the Temple dedication due to an accident. It seems the more I try to get there the more problems I have. Maybe if I give up on trying it could happen.

[The_Phoenix]

Now, everytime you think of how depressed you are, go and play with the puppy and bask in his unquestionable adoration.

You should be back to church thanking God for your many blessings in 3 days.

You don’t want to know what I named her?

[The_Phoenix]

I think the best thing we can do to help those who are struggling is:

1: Not offer advice, they aren't seeking it most of the time (I know this from experience)

2: Don't be judgemental, they are already feeling guilty and confused.

3: Shake their hand, talk to them as you always have.

4: Actually try to live the commandment "as I have loved you love one another" <==its a lot harder than it looks.

Why we don't try to just tell those that are struggling they are loved, and welcome is beyond me. Why we can't discuss troubling issues without becoming defense is beyond me. But we do, and maybe we need to take a look at why we do, we can't change the other person, but we can change our actions towards them.

Thank you very much for that; indeed why.

[Backroads]

We can certainly change our actions and be welcoming and loving, but the person in distress should never expect others to change themselves for him.

[Backroads]

A merciful God.

A wonderful thing to look for, but why are you trying to find this in people rather than in God? It's like you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

[The_Phoenix]

A wonderful thing to look for, but why are you trying to find this in people rather than in God? It's like you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Because it should be a natural outcropping of the Gospel of love. But I have always been to idealistic, thus my disappointment.

[Backroads]

Because it should be a natural outcropping of the Gospel of love. But I have always been to idealistic, thus my disappointment.

It very well should be. But that's not my point. I'm getting the impression you are looking for an excuse not to pray, not to seek out God, yet claim you want a merciful God.

[Guest tbaird22]

As far as doubts go, we all have them. Its what we do with them that makes the difference. When i was living a rather inactive lifestyle i read a bunch of antimormon crap that slowly wore on the testimony i once had. I followed the "doubt route" aka i did nothing about it. Just tried to forget about it. Since i have come back i still had those doubts but this time i clung to the "hope rope" and researched them out. I prayed to HF for answers, asked others and searched online. Now i am sort of notorious for asking anti questions and we even have a little thing before every priest quorum lesson where we are allowed to ask any questions or share anything we learned that week (great for investigators) haha my bishop loves it though keeps things interesting

As far as people go... were just not perfect. Its true no one wants to be around doubters but its more than that we are scared that they might be on to something. It shouldnt be like that but it is for now atleast. Perhaps YOU should say something instead of expressing your feelings online. Maybe im naive because i'm young or because i have a great relationship with my bishop but thats what i would do.

[JudoMinja]

I would like to be brutally honest with you here about my own personal impression of you. Hopefully you do not take it as insulting, but I feel sometimes what others really need is brutal honesty:

The first thread of yours I ever read (might have been the first one you posted, I'm not sure) was the start of a bitter spiral into depression. Naturally, liking to help people and offer advice, I lept in with what I had to offer. Instead of helping though, it didn't seem to do any good. It wasn't long before you were posting another thread with a similar sense of dispair and depression. And another. And another.

When I skimmed over the OP for this thread, at first I wasn't even interested in getting involved in a discussion. Why? It has nothing to do with a lack of love or with not liking you. It has everything to do with a feeling of pointlessness. I feel as though all my efforts are useless. No matter what advice I offer, no matter what I write, you are still struggling and depressed. So why am I posting here at all? I guess I feel as though one last ditch-effort might make some difference. Then again, maybe it won't, but that won't affect me. I am responsible for myself and my happiness and you are responsible for yours. I have no control over what you decide to do, I only have control over myself. So why should I worry and fret over something I cannot change?

I cannot make you happy. Only you can make you happy. If others are anything like me, they pull away from depressed people not because they don't want to fellowship them but because the hand of fellowship can only go so far. You have to decide for yourself whether or not you will accept that hand. Even Christ does not force someone to accept His message. He stands at the door, waiting for you to welcome Him in, but that decision is ultimately up to you. Just because people are "pulling away" does not mean they are no longer there, willing and ready to help you should you choose to accept it. People have just recognized that putting a whole ton of energy behind their efforts is pointless. That energy is "wasted" because you are not responding with any energy of your own.

These people from your ward probably still have you in their thoughts and are concerned about you, but they just don't know what else to do. They are leaving it up to you and putting it in the hands of the Lord to lead you back to happiness. They are probably praying about you, because that is all they can think of that they can do that might still help.

When we are down and depressed, it is hard to see the good things that are surrounding us. Does that mean the good things are gone? No. Our vision has just become tainted and fogged by our feelings of remorse and loss. When you start looking for the good things (like your wonderful Golden Retriever puppy ), that fog slowly starts to disappear. Perhaps, with time, you will come to see that the hand of fellowship is still being extended out to you... and you are just failing to recognize it.

[Guest]

Because it should be a natural outcropping of the Gospel of love. But I have always been to idealistic, thus my disappointment.

You are telling us this? Yes, it is a natural outcropping of love but YOU are the perfect example of how it's not always THAT easy. You expect others to live up to your ideal when you yourself can't live up to it.

That's kinda ironic, don't you think?

[skippy740]

"Talk, talk, talk... when do we eat?"

1 Timothy 5:13

13And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

Another phrase to go with it:

- Walk a mile in a person's shoes. Then you're a mile away and you have their shoes!

If we are expecting "perfection" and attendees to our "pity parties", we are going to be sorely disappointed.

When the Savior was tempted, he was alone for 40 days. No one came to His "pity party" (because there was none).

When the Savior was on the cross, He finally said "Why has Thou forsaken me?"

My favorite saying comes from the almost blasphemous movie "Bruce Almighty" - "You want a miracle son? BE the miracle!"

To receive, you must GIVE. This is the way LIFE works! Show your desire to learn and grow, and you will receive. Show your desire for confusion and to be alone, you will receive.

Sometimes, the best thing to do for people is to leave them alone until they want your help. And then it's up to them to give some effort first.

Just because someone's inactive doesn't mean I'm going to help them move their family. As a home teacher, my job is to check on the family and see the best way I can be of service. My job is to put forth some initial effort. It's up to them to be pleasant, smile, and at least communicate what's going on in their lives.

When the Christian church was started, there was a magnificient multitude of people. And it was the Sermon on the Mount. There was a variety of reaction to the same sermon.

Some were perplexed.

Some didn't know what was going on.

Some mocked and laughed.

Now, according to the scriptures... they didn't have classes to de-perplex the perplexed. They let the mockers mock. They let the laughers laugh. They didn't try to change this.

It's just the way it is.

Gotta watch this video of Jim Rohn. It'll help.

YouTube - Jim Rohn - Some do some don't

BTW, for that missionary spoken of in the original post: BlacksInTheScriptures.com

Edited May 7, 2011 by skippy740

[skippy740]

The Jim Rohn Video needs a second post - just so others can view it. It's REALLY good!

YouTube - Jim Rohn - Some do some don't

[gruden]

Phoenix,

For most of my life, I've been the outsider in many wards, sometimes given a hard time and not included in things. There are different reasons, many of them I can't control, but I do treasure the friendships I have had in the past and hope they will come again.

In any case, my suggestion for you is to find the Lord's will for you and do it. This will give you purpose, increased spirituality, and draw your attention away from things that are slowing you down. Whatever members may or may not do, the Lord is there. You can always count on Him.

And that's the point, isn't it? We get so wrapped up in the Church and all the busy work and the meetings and the he-said-she-said that we lose the big picture. Your salvation does not depend on what anyone else does. What it depends on is your ability to draw close to the Lord. We have been promised that if we seek Him earnestly, we will find Him. So what are you waiting for?! Go do it and God bless.

[Guest Godless]

People who begin to doubt the Church often have a negative energy around them, and it appears that you're no exception. Anatess said it perfectly: people don't like to be around downers. It may sound harsh and insulting, but it's 100% true. When a person is depressed or struggling, the natural response of those close to him/her is to reach out. If the negative attitude persists despite the efforts of others to help, then people withdraw. I've had to do it more than once, and believe me when I say that it is very painful. But what else can you do when you've shown nothing but love and support, and yet the negativity persists?

Here's my advice as an apostate who still has many friends in the Church. Don't burn your bridges. If you truly want to stay in the Church, then go to church. Participate in activities. I kept going to Institute for over a year after I lost interest in the Church because I didn't want to alienate myself from my friends. And you know what? It worked. I had a great support system ready to bring me back into the Church if I ever made the decision to come back, but I didn't. I made a conscious choice to leave, but was able to leave friendships intact because I made the effort to ensure that my decisions didn't bring anyone else down with me.

Give people a reason to reach out to you again. Make the effort to get involved in the Church again. No one else is going to do that for you. No one is going to hold your hand every step of the way. The members of your ward have their own lives and struggles to deal with. They can't be expected to go out of their way to help someone who seems unable to help himself. It's quite possible that you're the one cutting ties with the Church, not the other way around.

And if your decision is ultimately to leave the Church, then own that decision. Don't sit around and wait for people to try to change your mind. It's not going to happen. Take some initiative and figure out what it is that you want, and then work to get there. If people see that you're making an honest effort, then the support will come.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Godless

[beefche]

Godless, you are amazing.

[pam]

We are still working on Godless. Trying to get him to change his name to Godful. :)

[The_Phoenix]

Oh lol lol lol I just realized what I wrote yesterday. I meant to say:

I hope this clarifies my point. :)

Thank you.

[The_Phoenix]

People who begin to doubt the Church often have a negative energy around them, and it appears that you're no exception. Anatess said it perfectly: people don't like to be around downers. It may sound harsh and insulting, but it's 100% true. When a person is depressed or struggling, the natural response of those close to him/her is to reach out. If the negative attitude persists despite the efforts of others to help, then people withdraw. I've had to do it more than once, and believe me when I say that it is very painful. But what else can you do when you've shown nothing but love and support, and yet the negativity persists?

It does, and no one has reached out to help, and no one will.

[FunkyTown]

It does, and no one has reached out to help, and no one will.

Except for several of the people on this thread, and on your numerous other threads you've created on this.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding: Who do you expect to reach out to you and how do you intend for them to reach out?

Nobody wants you to leave the church. However, nobody wants someone as an emotional vampire sucking all the life out of a place by sulking all the time, either.

[Guest]

Except for several of the people on this thread, and on your numerous other threads you've created on this.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding: Who do you expect to reach out to you and how do you intend for them to reach out?

Nobody wants you to leave the church. However, nobody wants someone as an emotional vampire sucking all the life out of a place by sulking all the time, either.

Apparently FT, we're nobody.

[believer]

Many faiths gather around people in your situation and lift them up. The Pentecostal faith lives to help bring people like you to God. I would look to them maybe. I've had a Mormons tell me face to face that the Holy Spirit leaves them if they encounter someone who needs god. They said it was a scary feeling to have the spirit leave them.

Have you tried St.Johns wort? It works great. It's the most used and most studied anti-depressant in the world and it's 100% natural. It can give you intense dreams and make you burn easily in the sun (sensitivity to ultra-violet light) but otherwise is very well tolerated by most everyone. It's subtle but effective. It's subtle but works.

I have lived my life the opposite of most everyone who has posted on this thread. I have gotten into trouble trying to help others. I thought that made me a good person. Unfortunately that led to being taken advantage of by a few of the many that feed of off others good will. So now discernment is key for me. But I do find it curious how your church does that. I actually find it hard to believe. But then that would mean this message board is fraudulent and not really inhabited by Mormons. So I guess that's just the way it is.

A Pentecostal service could be refreshing. I hope you feel better. :)

[The_Phoenix]

Except for several of the people on this thread, and on your numerous other threads you've created on this.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding: Who do you expect to reach out to you and how do you intend for them to reach out?

Nobody wants you to leave the church. However, nobody wants someone as an emotional vampire sucking all the life out of a place by sulking all the time, either.

I speak of those who are my friends, here in my Ward.