BYU Dancer Counciled For Showing Too Much Skin On SYTYCD!

[Latter Days Guy]

I don't know about that either. Did you see the protesters outside the Preston temple during its dedication in 1998? The scenes were fairly similar, and no officials attempted to stop them.

The laws in this regards are quite new having come into law after the 7/7 bombings.

[Just_A_Guy]

The UK does not guarantee freedom of religion and freedom of association?

Yes it does as long as it doesn't impede the rights of others . . .

So, which is it? Does the UK believe that Muslims have a right to a Mormon-subsidized education based on Mormon values at a Mormon institution?

. . . or break the law.

. . . or are you saying that freedom of religion/association exist only until Her Majesty's government elects to take those freedoms away, which it has done in the case of educational institutions?

[Traveler]

I thought I would add something. My father use to tell me that if I ever start down a road - it is dishonest and a lie to act surprised when you arrive at the destination.

I have learned over the years that it is not so much what a person is doing as it is why they are doing it - in other words where they are trying to get with it. Let me give an example. I worked many years ago on the “targeting system” for the curse missile. The curse missile was able to hit a target with great accuracy from a launch point of over 1500 miles away. So accurate that it could deliver its deadly payload through a 3 foot square window of a building.

The reason it is so accurate is because its entire path is charted in advance and its guidance system constantly monitors its advancement along the path. Even the tiniest deviation is corrected immediately.

It is a false dream and hope to think one will reach their destination by deviating slightly from the path. If one intends to get to the moon and back a one tenth of one percent error will end in failure and cost you your life. If you are aiming for something eternal - the scriptures are clear. Strait is the path to eternal life - there can be no deviation.

As to the dancer - I saw the program and even the judges were shocked at his dress standard. Many years ago I played in a “band” and very quickly discovered that the entertainment world by nature will force deviations from the path of eternal life - to embrace such deviations is contrary to family values. As Pres David O. McKay said, “There is no success that will compensate for failure in the home.” BYU was wise to council the young man - he would be wise to heed the council. Unless, of course, eternal life is not really his goal.

The Traveler

[Echo2002]

I heard about this guy from my mother. I think he could have worn more clothing and it wouldn't have compromised his artistic expression. Look at men who do ballet, you can still see their movements and their muscles through the tights.

[Mahonri]

He makes a good point about BYU swimmers. ? ? ?

[Jamie123]

I think needless to say the US and the UK (and a lot of Europe) have differing ideas on where the lines for rights are drawn. Freedom of speech and guns are a couple of the big ones.

It's a myth that only Americans have Freedom of Speech. We have it also through the European Convention on Human Rights. It's true there have been some attempts (largely inspired by the last government) to punish people who have said unpopular things in public, but these have for the most part been shot down in flames - much to the delight of the conservative media. Very often the state has been forced to pay compensation to those it's attempted to punish.

Having said that, there are plenty of powerful people (both here and in the US) who would love to see Freedom of Speech abolished, so it pays to be on our guard.

[Carl62]

In your opinion from afar. Unless you have intimate details from principals involved, you may think there might appear to be a double standard, but you don't really know if one exists.

Just like you don't really know for sure if there is a double standard that does exists.

[RipplecutBuddha]

Okay, swimmers have a set standard because what they wear has a direct impact on their performance. Not an artistic impact, but a real, physics-grounded impact. Also, swimmers are competing in a physics-grounded competition. The winner is identified immediately following the participant's efforts.

Dancing, on the other hand, is purely a subjective judgement call once you get past any physical mistakes such as a stumble, or poor timing with the music. With dance, the clothing is determined by.....the performer. In his mind, he had to dress this way, but nearly all of us can agree he would have performed just as well wearing a single-peice leotard going to his ankles and wrists.

Maybe his dance did 'need' to be done in the costume he wore. That being said, he should have remembered the standards he agreed to follow while a student at BYU. After all, he was made aware of them long before he committed to attending the college. He voluntarily agreed to them, so I have no issue with how the school handled it, because he also voluntarily acted against those standards.

Otherwise he could have performed a different dance that didn't 'require' so much exposure of skin. After all, the only kind of dance that I know of that requires skin exposure of any kind would have gotten him expelled from the school immediately.

[Blackmarch]

what about nude art? a bare human body dosent have to be sexual.

then it doesnt need to be nude. THe "its art, not porn" or "it's art, not sexuality" is pushed so much by so many, especially when something is provacative in some way that I don't believe that much anymore.... Especially in the culture of the U.S.A.

there might be a line there, but it's of the greyest grey.

And quite frankly after seeing the videos i'm more with BYU on their verdict than on the dancer's. (especially him dancing next to individuals more modestly dressed than him really put the nail in the coffin, bad mistake on his part)

I"ve seen form dancing similar to his done by people in full clothe down to less than what he was wearing. After a certain point the lack of clothes becomes distracting from the dance, rather than enhancing... and as a guy it becomes more of an eww type reaction if its guys performing. And he passed that point by a long shot.

For me the line is when something becomes "Check out my body" rather than "see what i can do" because at some level there is some sexuality involved with that.

and i'm pretty sure the sports teams are all naked when they are in the showers around at the same time after they are done with events, and i'm pretty sure that isn't sexual. However that doesnt mean its ok to be naked in other settings.

I think BYU is overreacting, I'm sure both the swim teams and crosscounty team both wear clothes that are just as skimpy.

They probably are... but not near as much as the dancer is.

well then he should have danced for the swim team and crosscountry team tryouts.... Or for the bodybuilders club or something.

Altho generally once you get into professional swimming, body suits are generally used by those who have $$$. (no idea if BYUs swimming team has such, kinda doubt it)....

How long do you think that anyone in BYU's dance teams/clubs would stay out of trouble if they started showing up at official dance presentations in only their swim trunks? Theres a place and time for certain things. (And 10 to 1 they have regulations for dancing presentations)

Its BYU that makes its own rules and its up to BYU to intrepret what they mean/constitute.

IF someone doesn't like their rules or how they view their rules... then they should probably choose a different college.

[Guest saintish]

Altho generally once you get into professional swimming, body suits are generally used by those who have $$$. (no idea if BYUs swimming team has such, kinda doubt it)....

They aren't that expensive anymore and they provide a competitive advantage, so if I were BYU I would say "hey, my swimmers can be more modest and have a competitive advantage"

my opinion is that the swim team doesn't get national coverage and it is accepted that swimmers wear swim suits. This guy was on national TV and caused a little shock and maybe put BYU in a light they didn't like.

I dont think it has anything to do with him wearing something immodest and everything to do with being in the spotlight.

[john doe]

Just like you don't really know for sure if there is a double standard that does exists.

And if you had read my post instead of looking for things to pick at, you would find that I said that very thing. You would also find my reasons for giving the school the benefit of the doubt as well.