Parts Of The Bible Discounted As Incorrect

[prisonchaplain]

Of course I meant the New Testament.

I thought John was a Southern Baptist?

[Guest Monica]

Ok lets go back to the bible and see what it says:

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God: -Lev.26:1

you can find more of this on http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/statues.htm

as for the dead, they dont know anything about what is happening in our lives and we are not to speak with them. once someone is dead they are dead and dont return until Jesus returns here. Our confort now comes from the HOLY SPIRIT not from the dead.

Deuteronomy 18:10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[miztrniceguy]

as for the dead, they dont know anything about what is happening in our lives and we are not to speak with them. once someone is dead they are dead and dont return until Jesus returns here. Our confort now comes from the HOLY SPIRIT not from the dead.

i'm pretty sure this isnt what we are taught, having received new knowledge and revelations

[dowi1]

<div class='quotemain'>

as for the dead, they dont know anything about what is happening in our lives and we are not to speak with them. once someone is dead they are dead and dont return until Jesus returns here. Our confort now comes from the HOLY SPIRIT not from the dead.

i'm pretty sure this isnt what we are taught, having received new knowledge and revelations

Looks like Joseph Smith and not a few others broke the rule to not "communicate with the dead." The brother of Jared, Moses and others even had the audacity to talk to someone who hadn't even been born yet, definately "dead."

Does this make Joseph Smith a "diviner?" What of Wilford Woodruff and the founders of the nation in the St. George Temple. Or were they given special status, being a prophets and all? I'm fairly certain that IF something about us is eternal and existed before and exists subsequent to this temporal existence in some form or calling, for example, an angel, THEN God will continue to use these eternal essences to communicate with prophets, peasants, and others seeking light and knowledge. Those who have their Callings and Elections made are able....well this would be conjecture.

Anyway, seems like we're playing a shell game on this one, taking turns hiding the bean and basking in the certainty of our own inside knowledge. I doubt any minds will be changed on this one. But it does make for some interesting...insights.

[Lindy]

<div class='quotemain'>

as for the dead, they dont know anything about what is happening in our lives and we are not to speak with them. once someone is dead they are dead and dont return until Jesus returns here. Our confort now comes from the HOLY SPIRIT not from the dead.

i'm pretty sure this isnt what we are taught, having received new knowledge and revelations

My thoughts exactly.... once they are dead...they are dead and don't return? What about the spirits that people see while preforming baptism for the dead? Too many to call them all liars.

Two of my four children both "saw" their grandpa more than 4 years after he had passed away..... Different times, different ages. Same grandpa. Neither knew the other had the same experience.

I'm sure that Joseph Smith also saw "dead" people.... LDS understand the importance of those "dead" people coming back to earth at that time...... kind of a lot to do with what our faith is built on.

I am a believer in spirits among us.... Different than the Holy Ghost mind you. Nothing can take his place.

[Guest Monica]

Good point there. How does one answer when a person says there are differences between the bible and the bom, d&c, and pearl?

[Lindy]

Good point there. How does one answer when a person says there are differences between the bible and the bom, d&c, and pearl?

FAITH Works for me

[Bob_oz]

Today I was reading from a site called Biblestudy.org an article regarding the content and many versions of the Bible translations, I think its worth a read.

If anyone is aware of any denomination affiliation of those who run Biblestudy.org I'd be interested to know.

The article seems to me to indicate that over time and the translations, elements of the teachings contained in the original text have changed and/or the meaning changed and that depending on the Bible version adopted by a denomination or individual so the goes the teaching.

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/kjverror.html

Just a thought

Bob

[Jason]

Ok lets go back to the bible and see what it says:

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God: -Lev.26:1

you can find more of this on http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/statues.htm

You really don't get it do you? If you're not worshipping the dang statue, then it's not idol worship! Or would you have us go to every major museum and destroy ever statue made of ever person in existance? Would you have us act like the Muslims and risk war over a painted or drawn image of Jesus? Seriously Monica, you should try thinking for yourself once and awhile.

as for the dead, they dont know anything about what is happening in our lives and we are not to speak with them. once someone is dead they are dead and dont return until Jesus returns here. Our confort now comes from the HOLY SPIRIT not from the dead.

Can you prove that? I can't. And the Bible is not proof. I want genuine, scientifically proven evidence that anything exists after death, including Jesus.

Otherwise, this conversation is finished.

[Maureen]

Today I was reading from a site called Biblestudy.org an article regarding the content and many versions of the Bible translations, I think its worth a read.

If anyone is aware of any denomination affiliation of those who run Biblestudy.org I'd be interested to know.

Hi Bob,

I was looking over BibleStudy.org and find their thoughts interesting but limiting. I like to check out www.bible.org, they have some great essays and my favorite essayist is Dr. Daniel Wallace, these are some of his articles/essays regarding Bible translations:

Series Title: The History of the English Bible

Part I: From Wycliffe to King James (The Period of Challenge)

Part II: The Reign of the King James (The Era of Elegance)

Part III: From the KJV to the RV (from Elegance to Accuracy)

Part IV: Why So Many Versions?

http://www.bible.org/series.asp?series_id=117

Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=665

The Majority Text and the Original Text: Are They Identical?

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=677

The Conspiracy Behind the New Bible Translations

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=706

Innovations in the Text and Translation of the NET Bible, New Testament

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=932

Changes to the KJV since 1611:An Illustration

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1197

Inspiration, Preservation, and New Testament Textual Criticism

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1221

Scripture Twisting: Read me First!

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1503

M.

[Traveler]

<div class='quotemain'>

Today I was reading from a site called Biblestudy.org an article regarding the content and many versions of the Bible translations, I think its worth a read.

If anyone is aware of any denomination affiliation of those who run Biblestudy.org I'd be interested to know.

Hi Bob,

I was looking over BibleStudy.org and find their thoughts interesting but limiting. I like to check out www.bible.org, they have some great essays and my favorite essayist is Dr. Daniel Wallace, these are some of his articles/essays regarding Bible translations:

M.

Anyone that studies the history of religious thinking from ancient to modern times realizes that there are problems with the text that exist in all modern versions of the Biblical Scriptures. All the arguments are based on speculation of what was being said in the first text of any given scripture. But there is a consideration that is not being considered and can be seen within the text of Isaiah (which is considered by many scholars the most accurate of ancient text because of the complexity of the ancient Hebrew poetic form - which is not fully understood in our modern era). That aside Isaiah confronts King Ahaz who even with the correct text of scriptures in front of him, king Ahaz draws incorrect conclusions.

Again in Luke chapter 4 Satan uses and quotes the scriptures before Jesus and here Satan uses correct scriptures but draws incorrect conclusions. In all textual criticism of scripture it is believed that correct doctrine can only be understood and drawn from unaltered sacred original text. This is simply a false conclusion. This false conclusion has always been used to reject correct teaching from the L-rd's chosen prophets (which are the source of all scripture in the first place).

Thus the source of true doctrine is not original scripture text but the prophet that spoke and wrote the text as well as the prophets that followed according to G-d's call. I would also point out that in general the prophet called by G-d is quite often rejected by the very people to who G-d has targeted to receieve both the ancient scriptural witness as will as as the witness of that living prophet.

Again we learn from scripture - this time Ecclesiasties 1:8-11. From Adam to Enoch to Noah to Abraham to Moses to the time of Jesus and the Apostles to our day. The arguments over prophets and scriptures has not changed.

The Traveler

[miztrniceguy]

<div class='quotemain'>

Ok lets go back to the bible and see what it says:

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God: -Lev.26:1

you can find more of this on http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/statues.htm

You really don't get it do you? If you're not worshipping the dang statue, then it's not idol worship! Or would you have us go to every major museum and destroy ever statue made of ever person in existance? Would you have us act like the Muslims and risk war over a painted or drawn image of Jesus? Seriously Monica, you should try thinking for yourself once and awhile.

as for the dead, they dont know anything about what is happening in our lives and we are not to speak with them. once someone is dead they are dead and dont return until Jesus returns here. Our confort now comes from the HOLY SPIRIT not from the dead.

Can you prove that? I can't. And the Bible is not proof. I want genuine, scientifically proven evidence that anything exists after death, including Jesus.

Otherwise, this conversation is finished.

when i die i'll pop in for a visit

[Guest Monica]

You really don't get it do you? If you're not worshipping the dang statue, then it's not idol worship! Or would you have us go to every major museum and destroy ever statue made of ever person in existance? Would you have us act like the Muslims and risk war over a painted or drawn image of Jesus? Seriously Monica, you should try thinking for yourself once and awhile.

as for the dead, they dont know anything about what is happening in our lives and we are not to speak with them. once someone is dead they are dead and dont return until Jesus returns here. Our confort now comes from the HOLY SPIRIT not from the dead.

Can you prove that? I can't. And the Bible is not proof. I want genuine, scientifically proven evidence that anything exists after death, including Jesus.

Otherwise, this conversation is finished.

According to the bible praying to someone who isnt God and kneeling before a statue of something to ask something is idolitry. That is the biblical definition and description.

Now if you choose to disbelieve what the bible says, that is between you and God. As for me all i can do is share what is in the scriptures. The ball is in your court.

[Jason]

According to the bible praying to someone who isnt God and kneeling before a statue of something to ask something is idolitry. That is the biblical definition and description.

No, that's your horribly uneducated understanding of what you think it says, not what it actually says.

[Guest Monica]

<div class='quotemain'>

According to the bible praying to someone who isnt God and kneeling before a statue of something to ask something is idolitry. That is the biblical definition and description.

No, that's your horribly uneducated understanding of what you think it says, not what it actually says.

LOL I posted the verses as is... where does it say you can make a statue and kneel before it and pray to it?

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God: -Lev.26:1

this one from the 10 commandments is even more specific:

Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

[Ray]

I want genuine, scientifically proven evidence that anything exists after death, including Jesus.

Otherwise, this conversation is finished.

Please define the parameters you are thinking of when you think of "scientifically proven evidence".

I'd really like to hear your answer - from someone who has faith in science.

[BenRaines]

I would like scientific proven evidence that nothing exists after mortal life. Same request just the reverse.

Ben Raines

[Ray]

I would like scientific proven evidence that nothing exists after mortal life. Same request just the reverse.

Ben Raines

Yes, that would help too, but we must first understand the term: "scientifically proven evidence".

Some guys called scientists thinking they have proved something by what they consider to be evidence wouldn't necessarily prove anything to me... if I could find another way to possibly interpret their "evidence", perhaps after some new instruments have become available to interpret it, or perhaps by knowing Who to believe.

And btw, faith is a substance, or is substantial evidence, we can't see but which still assures us of a truth... if the person who assures us really knows it.. and the fact that we can't see faith or that type of evidence doesn't mean the assurance is not true... no matter how much some people may be assured to believe otherwise.

Or in other words, we can choose to believe an assurance from God, as well as an assurance from Satan, (as well as an assurance from ourself or another person or people), and I choose to believe God because I know God doesn't lie, no matter how many other people may choose to NOT believe Him.

[Jason]

LOL I posted the verses as is... where does it say you can make a statue and kneel before it and pray to it?

Do you attend church? Do you pray to the Church building, or just pray at the building? Have you been to the LDS Temple? Are you praying to the Temple, or just in the Temple?

Get it through your head. Roman Catholics do not pray TO statues, they pray to God. They do not pray TO Mary or the Saints, they ask them to join them in their prayers to God.

I don't understand why this is so hard for you to understand. Do you have a learning disability?

Please define the parameters you are thinking of when you think of "scientifically proven evidence".

I'd really like to hear your answer - from someone who has faith in science.

Using the scienfic method, able to be replicated by anyone without 'belief' or 'faith'.

I would like scientific proven evidence that nothing exists after mortal life. Same request just the reverse.

Ben Raines

Burden of proof Ben. You state life exists after death, therefore you must prove it, or it simply is a 'belief'. Beliefs are not proof.

[BenRaines]

Does not burden of proof work both ways? Is it not fair to ask that you provide proof that it doesn't? I know that I cannot provide proof that it does so it is my belief and I have faith that it does. Do you or someone else have proof that it doesn't or is it your belief that it doesn't?

Ben Raines

PS: This is not a personal attack just a common sense question. Those who do not believe in an afterlife do not know that it does not exist they just do not believe that it does not exist because proof of it does not exist.

[Bob_oz]

Hi Maureen and thanks for the links you posted I will get to them as time permit and I appreciate the post

Bob

[Bob_oz]

Hi Monica, personally I appreciate your comment in these threads, your faith and appreciation of the scriptures is a standard to us all, I for one know I for one would be well served by a better understanding of the standard works.

There will not be an understanding or agreement on or of what the Lord has provided for us in this life, if there was there would be no need for faith and trust and endurance. If science was seen to up hold God there would be less need for faith.

The debate as we see here will rage till the Lord returns and even then? The mind of men and women will be shaped by knowledge, understanding, faith, anger, revenge, pride etc.

Bob

[Jason]

Does not burden of proof work both ways? Is it not fair to ask that you provide proof that it doesn't? I know that I cannot provide proof that it does so it is my belief and I have faith that it does. Do you or someone else have proof that it doesn't or is it your belief that it doesn't?

Ben Raines

PS: This is not a personal attack just a common sense question. Those who do not believe in an afterlife do not know that it does not exist they just do not believe that it does not exist because proof of it does not exist.

Hey Ben.

Im actually kinda surprised that you don't understand this. The burden of proof rests with the party who is making an affirmation. More especially with those who are making a claim (ie: god exists, aliens abduct humans, mothmen, invisible pink unicorns, the easter bunny, or that there is an afterlife, etc.).

Let's take the invisible pink unicorn. If you tell me that you believe there is an invisible pink unicorn that rules the universe, but I deny that such a thing exists, who bears the burden of proof?

Well, clearly you do. You must somehow prove to me that there is an invisible pink unicorn. But let's clear up one thing, my denial of the invisible pink unicorn is not a "belief" that it does not exist. There just is no evidence to warrant my having an opinion on the matter. That's not a lack of belief, its just a lack of any worthwhile evidence to merit having a view on the matter.

In other words, it's not that I don't believe in an afterlife, it's that there is no evidence of an afterlife. It's not a belief by any means, I just don't have a reason to accept your belief based on your sentimentality.

Here's a pretty good article about logic and fallacies. Normally I wouldn't bother, but just in case you need a referesher: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html

[Guest Monica]

Thank you Bob and to God be all the Glory.

As for the bible being 100% true I have found it to be. What I also found as I read the bible was that 90% of what I had been told about God by other people, expecially those who claimed to serve Him, was incorrect. That is why I will always post the verses in context to document what I post, so that you can see that I am not making up this stuff or just stating opinions.

Others can also post the verses to sustain what they post. In fact its a great idea for sharing scriptures with eachother. You never know how, what verses you post can greatly help someone who is seeking the truth and the answers.

Why I know the Bible is true as is? Well, I had been searching for a long time in different churches amd different religions. Finally as I looked at the bible and realized that the real search was in reading the book and seeing what it really said.

Out of curiosity I started to read and do what it said. That is how I found out how many false theologies and doctrines that were the traditions of men had be taught to me. The more I read, the more I realized I had been lied to by people. Hence my motto became, "Forget what people think, and find out what God says!"

The wild part was when I saw the very same miracles recorded in the bible happen before my eyes, just as it said, word for word.

Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

[Dr T]

Hey Monica,

I applaud the use of context! The God not changing vs. that you cited, what do you take that to mean? What of the LDS teaching of eternal progression? Is that a change from Man to god? What of His continued development?

Thanks