Is everyone equal according to God?

[ruthiechan]

My shocking theory is that

Hold on to your hat Vort because MY shocking theory is that equal partners means that the husband and wife are working together to achieve the same goal, but that "men and women are different, with different duties and different realms of responsibility [better enabling them to achieve their goal]. To say that one is somehow "better than" the other (e.g. motherhood is better than the Priesthood, or women are naturally more righteous than men) is an absurdity. They are not "better than" or "worse than", nor are they "equal" in any sense of sameness. They are complementary. [Gender specific spiritual gifts are also complementary. One is not better than the other, merely different.]"

[ruthiechan]

Eh heh, just looked at the original question again.

I know this seems obvious, I just wanted to get some opinions. I was on a LDS chatroom today and surprisingly there were members of the church saying people are not equal. Beyond that, they stated the church has even taught not everyone is equal.

Are you talking about being favored of the Lord? When you are favored of the Lord it doesn't mean God doesn't love all of his children, but that he is well pleased with people who are choosing to obey his commandments, and as a result bind him to his word so that he has to bestow blessings upon them. That's what he wants us ALL to do, but not all of us do it. But he does give us every opportunity to change our minds when don't.

We all also have different needs and wants. So, if you have an emotional need to do art despite your poverty if you rely on the Lord he'll provide a way for you to have your emotional need met. But the next guy over does not have that need so gets something else instead.

Being no respecter of persons does not mean he's going to treat us all exactly the same.

[apexviper13]

Not quite. Men have the Priesthood, women do not. Women have spiritual instincts, men do not. The two are complementary. Men are blessed by the innate spiritual gift women have. Woman are blessed by the Priesthood men have.

Source: Crossing Thresholds and Becoming Equal Partners - Liahona Aug. 2007

Thus the equality is demonstrated in your comment.

[apexviper13]

Again, what do you suppose to means for two people to be "equal"? When you say, "Billy is equal to Suzie", what do you mean?

God loves both and sees neither as being better than the other. If God created certain people to be better than others then he'd be a respecter of persons and the scriptures directly say He is not a respecter of persons.

[apexviper13]

When it comes to putting things on top shelves I am superior to someone who is 5' 4" because I'm taller, using the metric of height we are not equal in the exact same sense that 5 != 6. I think that people take it as a value judgement, that God loves me more or they less, thing is as you pointed out in that context we are equal in the sense that use having unequal height and ability at putting things on top shelves doesn't mean God loves me more or them less.

Considering the shorter person can simply get a ladder, no, that doesn't make you superior.

[apexviper13]

Do you know anything of old vs new doctrine?

Yea, doctrines change. You should go to Institute. That's something you'll learn.

[apexviper13]

This stirred up an interesting thought/question for me. Dealing with the issue of females not having the priesthood, even though they still have it in their lives through blessings given to them and their husband to help, when we die and we become God's, to be come God you have to be powerful. God's power is the Priesthood, so since females can't hold it, would females not be considered Gods? Will females be as powerful as males?

Think about your own statement. The women will receive blessings for supporting the Priesthood. So yes, women will be exalted too.

[apexviper13]

What do you suppose casting such aspersions shows about your own character?

If you were around in the times of the apostles of old would you have asked Paul that same question when he called people ignorant?

[Dravin]

Considering the shorter person can simply get a ladder, no, that doesn't make you superior.

As noted he needs a tool to equal my abilities. That I can use a SCUBA tank does not mean I am equal in lung capacity to the top free divers of the world. That I can use a calculator does not make me equal in mathematical ability to some math prodigy. That someone needs a tool to make up for a lack of ability so they are on the same level of someone else is pretty much evidence of inequality.

As noted legally and as far as God is concerned this difference, or inequality, in ability in various areas compared to various other people isn't important, but that isn't to say everyone is equal by any metric you can care to name. Go tell someone bound to a wheel chair that he has equal walking and running abilities to an Olympic marathon runner. It's moot in the meaning you are using equality, but yours isn't the only meaning of the term out there and why Vort was asking you to identify which sense you were using.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Dravin

[apexviper13]

Well, I cannot say "doctrine" but teachings of past Church leaders with regards to Black people come to my mind (as we discussed in other threads in the past).

Plural marriage is an example of doctrine changing. God Himself changed some things. We have "thou shalt not kill". God has used armies in the Old Testament. Also, He commanded Abraham to kill Isaac. Sure, God only did so to test Abraham's obedience but it doesn't change the fact that He still commanded Abraham to sacrifice his own son.

[apexviper13]

As noted he needs a tool to equal my abilities. That I can use a SCUBA tank does not mean I am equal in lung capacity to the top free divers of the world. That I can use a calculator does not make me equal in mathematical ability to some math prodigy. That someone needs a tool to make up for a lack of ability so they are on the same level of someone else is pretty much evidence of inequality.

As noted legally and as far as God is concerned this difference, or inequality, in ability in various areas compared to various other people isn't important, but that isn't to say everyone is equal by any metric you can care to name. Go tell someone bound to a wheel chair that he has equal walking and running abilities to an Olympic marathon runner. It's moot in the meaning you are using equality, but yours isn't the only meaning of the term out there and why Vort was asking you to identify which sense you where.

The end result is the same regardless of using equipment.

[apexviper13]

You people need to reread the question.

"Is everyone equal according to God?"

The answer to that is a very simple yes. Just because people think not everyone is equal doesn't make it so. The scriptures state God loves everyone equally and isn't a respecter of persons so I prefer to go by what the scriptures say. It's really surprising and sad to see members of the church say nobody is equal despite what the scriptures say. Sure, Abraham says some people are smarter than others. That doesn't make the smarter person better. To be smarter and then think that makes you superior is prideful. Jesus, the Son of God, is certainly smarter but he didn't say he is superior. That would demean his humble nature. He loves everyone equally because the Father does. Jesus was fair to everyone because the Father is. That shows the Father does treat everyone the same. Take the 2nd Coming for example. Some will go to the degrees of glory and others will not. Regardless, He's treating them equally because He will judge them on the same thing: their works.

Edited June 19, 2011 by apexviper13

[Dravin]

The end result is the same regardless of using equipment.

Which is moot. And even using crutches our wheel chair bound fellow will not be equal in running or walking ability to a marathon runner. People are not equal in every capacity, if such was true if you were a business owner you'd not bother to do interviews, you'd hire the first person who showed up.

You have a job that requires formal schooling to be able to do, you have two canidates:

1. Someone who never finished high school and otherwise lacks the actual ability to do the job you would be hiring for.

2. Some one who got their diploma with honors and demonstrates understanding and ability to do the job for which you would be hiring them.

Are you gonna flip a coin? Their ability to do the job is not equal. My inability to operate a nuclear reactor means I am not equal in the ability to do such compared to someone who can. If I am a diabetic my ability to eat sugar and not die is inequal to someone who is not diabetic.

The answer to that is a very simple yes. Just because people think not everyone is equal doesn't make it so.

Except people aren't equal by every possible metric and if you asked God, and he bothered to answer who was a superior runner between the Olympic marathon runner and the guy bound to a wheel chair he would not answer they were equal runners. Just because you mean equality in a certain way does not mean that it is the only valid meaning for the word. Curiously it's been accepted as a given that in the way you are using it they are equal, you're just, for some reason, insisting that yours is the only sense for it to be used and doing your best to conflate other's use to be in the same sense of your own.

All you had to do is tell Vort you meant it in X way and that'd be the end of it but you felt you had to disprove that in some sense people are not equal for some reason.

That doesn't make the smarter person better. To be smarter and then think that makes you superior is prideful.

Who said it did? Someone who is smarter is superior in smarts (compared to someone, smarter is a comparative word), but such is pretty much a duh statement and not a claim of pride anymore than saying 6 > 5 is a prideful statement.

It's rather clear you're doing exactly what I talked about, you're attaching a value judgement to the statement that someone has inequal ability. The smarter person is not loved by God more, they are not afforded extra protections under the law and it doesn't make them 'better' in some sort nebulous "true worth" concept. It will probably make him better at solving mental challenges but that's no more pride than our Olympic Runner accepting he can beat a guy using crutches in a race.

It's really quite interesting to watch someone validate your supposition before your eyes:

...I think that people take it as a value judgement...

I think the senses you point out, of God being no respecter of persons and being equal before the law and other similar concepts of equality (such as some sort of nebulous concept of true worth) have come to overtake a more literal sense in other contexts to the point of using it in one of those more literal senses can quite often get you facing a rebuttal grounded in the other.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Dravin

[bytebear]

The reason we are all equal is because no matter our abilities, no matter our skills or our righteousness, we will still fall short of perfection. The reason we are all equal is because we all depend on one thing for salvation- The atonement of Jesus Christ. And he atoned for ALL sin, regardless of gender, race, nationality, intelligence, height or any other way you can think to segregate people.

[Traveler]

You people need to reread the question.

"Is everyone equal according to God?"

The answer to that is a very simple yes. Just because people think not everyone is equal doesn't make it so. The scriptures state God loves everyone equally and isn't a respecter of persons so I prefer to go by what the scriptures say. It's really surprising and sad to see members of the church say nobody is equal despite what the scriptures say. Sure, Abraham says some people are smarter than others. That doesn't make the smarter person better. To be smarter and then think that makes you superior is prideful. Jesus, the Son of God, is certainly smarter but he didn't say he is superior. That would demean his humble nature. He loves everyone equally because the Father does. Jesus was fair to everyone because the Father is. That shows the Father does treat everyone the same. Take the 2nd Coming for example. Some will go to the degrees of glory and others will not. Regardless, He's treating them equally because He will judge them on the same thing: their works.

I agree and I disagree. Not all are treated the same - because not all are the same. A careful reading of Abraham 3: starting with verse 22 indicates that G-d did not treat all the same. Some were treated as "Nobel and Great". And to demonstarte that they would not all be treated the same the noble and great G-d said that among these he would make his rulers.

See also Luke 12:48 and D&C 82:3. Not all are treated the same

But then I agree that all can recieve the same. The key here is obedience to the light we are given. I think the other thing to realize that all the follow the direction of the L-rd will recieve all that G-d has as an inheritance. Even in weakness G-d can make us strong.

The Traveler

[HEthePrimate]

A couple of scriptures in support of equality:

" 33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile." -- 2 Nephi 26:33

" 5 That you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea, and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things.

6 For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things..." -- D&C 78:5-6

[Blackmarch]

I know this seems obvious, I just wanted to get some opinions. I was on a LDS chatroom today and surprisingly there were members of the church saying people are not equal. Beyond that, they stated the church has even taught not everyone is equal.

Technically no, in the sense of progression. however he treats everyone with the same justice and love, in that, all are equal.

[Vort]

Again, what do you suppose to means for two people to be "equal"? When you say, "Billy is equal to Suzie", what do you mean?

God loves both and sees neither as being better than the other.

Not everyone understands the phrase "all are equal" to mean "God loves everyone the same". So if you're getting upset that some people don't agree with the statement, that's likely because you misunderstand what their interpretation of the statement is. Yours is not the only possible interpretation, or even the most obvious.

Besides the fact that the latter statement is untrue; God does not "love everyone the same", unless we wish to disbelieve the clear scriptural teachings.

[Dove]

This discussion reminds me of scriptures in Alma chapter 13. I believe the whole chapter is on the priesthood. Here are the specific verses (Alma 13: 3-5); "And this is the manner after which they were ordained- being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works: in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good; and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such. And thus they have been called to this holy calling on account of their faith, while others would reject the Spirit of God on account of the hardness of their hearts and blindness of their minds, while if it had not been for this they might have had as great privilege as their brethren. Or in fine in the first place they were on the same standing with their brethren; thus this holy calling being prepared from the foundation of the world for such as would not harden their hearts, being in and through the atonement of the Only Begotten Son, who was prepared-"

I believe that through the atonement we are all equal in our opportunities to grow and progress in intelligence, spirituality, love, etc., whichever way we want to. How we have/are/will utilize this gift of opportunity individually is what creates inequality amongst us. I am sooo grateful for the gift of the atonement and for repentance. This evens the playing field for me. Anybody on this earth has the opportunity to obtain exaltation and eternal life if we are willing.

[Dove]

PS; Sorry, I didn't realize that there were so many pages of posts before I wrote this...so I am probably repeating very closely what others have said.

As far as women not being able to hold the priesthood goes, there's a few points about this that I wonder if anyone else has considered....First of all, I believe that the only true equality between the sexes, given that our roles are so different from each other due to our gender, is if we were given the choice at some point as to what our gender would be. Maybe I chose motherhood and ideally, bearing children ( for me I am out of luck in this life as I was never able to bear children), over holding the priesthood.

Secondly, men cannot be exalted without the women in the celestial kingdom, neither the women without the men. We need each other to obtain this up there. I don't know why, but I'm laughing at how I phrased "up there."

[Avrham]

I know this seems obvious, I just wanted to get some opinions. I was on a LDS chatroom today and surprisingly there were members of the church saying people are not equal. Beyond that, they stated the church has even taught not everyone is equal.

the only eqaulity for man and woman is that we are born in water and when we die return as dust everyone has too go through these 2events if I remember that is the key part of the Plan of Salvation:) just my take