Bishop

[Dr T]

Hello all,

Reading many threads on this site, I often come across "Talk to your bishop." My question is how does someone become a bishop in the LDS church? Why are people often told to consult with them? What special talents/resources, etc. do they have that others might not have? I know each person is different and therefore this answer will be individual to your experience with your bishop but what have you noticed or believe about your own bishop? Do you believe that they always give the right advice? Do you think they are more knowledgeable than others in your ward? What else can you tell me about the bishop? I've met a bishop when I lived in Salt Lake. He was not as knowledgeable about his church or the LDS doctrine as his wife. Was that a rare thing or is that common?

Thanks for your ideas,

Dr. T

[Snow]

He was not as knowledgeable about his church or the LDS doctrine as his wife. Was that a rare thing or is that common?

Since a marriage has two people in it (these days) I'd say there is a 50% chance of it.

[Palerider]

I am looking forward to reading the responses to this.......... B)

[Guest just_jason76]

A bishop does not become a bishop because of his knowledge. As with every calling in the Church, a bishop is called by inspiration from God through those who are in authority. When someone receives a calling, they are set apart to that calling, meaning those in authority lay their hands on the person's head and give them a blessing to receive the authority and inspiration associated with that particular calling. A bishop, being the head of the ward, receives the authority to become the common judge of that ward, and is the only person in the ward that has that authority. With that authority comes the necessary inspiration to counsel, to judge, to lead.

So, the bishop is not always the most knowledgable person in the ward, but is simply the person who the Lord wants as bishop at that time.

[Dr T]

SS,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Hey, anytime you have something to share (LDS or not) you are always welcome to share with me. :)

Thanks again.

Hi just_jason76,

Thank you for your thoughts. So you see it as a divinely inspired position to hold. You also see them as humans that have the "authority" and "necessary inspiration to counsel, to judge, to lead" in your ward. Thank you.

[Dror]

Reading many threads on this site, I often come across "Talk to your bishop." My question is how does someone become a bishop in the LDS church?

Sunday School answer: they live righteously and are called by God.

Real Life answer: they live righteously, are called by God, and happen to be known and probably liked by higher-up Church leaders.

Why are people often told to consult with them?

Sunday School answer: The Bp is their priesthood leader and is entitled to revelation in their behalf.

Real Life answer: It's easier than trying to advise them yourself! (And the Bp is their priesthood leader, etc.)

What special talents/resources, etc. do they have that others might not have?

Sunday School answer: They are entitled to revelation in behalf of members of their ward.

Real Life answer: They can get revelation and can seek the advice and counsel of other people in their ward and stake who can help them advise you.

Do you believe that they always give the right advice?

No. In fact, my bishop gave me bad advice last Sunday, and I already regret having initially followed it.

Do you think they are more knowledgeable than others in your ward?

More knowledgeable about what? My bishop is a medical doctor, but he knows precious little about French literature. He does have a good basic understanding of the gospel as well as the above mentioned resources.

I've met a bishop when I lived in Salt Lake. He was not as knowledgeable about his church or the LDS doctrine as his wife. Was that a rare thing or is that common?

People are not called to be bishops because they know more about the Church and the Gospel than everybody else; they are called because God chose them for the position, for whatever reasons He may have. One reason may be that the bishop in question is a good man and has something positive to contribute to the ward. The Lord may also give him the calling in order to teach him and help him grow as a person, or even to be taught by other people.

Bishops are just people. They are not especially 'qualified' in the worldly sense. That is, they do not attend theology school, do not have to be in a particular occupation, and do not 'run for office.' They generally are good men who we need to sustain in their callings, support, and put our own talents, knowledge, and services at their disposal to use to build up the Church. Bishops and other Church leaders are not 'rulers' in the worldly sense of the word. Rather, they are servants, both of God and of their fellow ward members and other people. The particular way they serve is by helping to provide order in the Church, guiding and advising its members, and reaching out to help people in need.

Dror

[Dr T]

Thank you for you thoughtful and educational post Dror. It was helpful.

[Traveler]

Hello all,

Reading many threads on this site, I often come across "Talk to your bishop." My question is how does someone become a bishop in the LDS church? Why are people often told to consult with them? What special talents/resources, etc. do they have that others might not have? I know each person is different and therefore this answer will be individual to your experience with your bishop but what have you noticed or believe about your own bishop? Do you believe that they always give the right advice? Do you think they are more knowledgeable than others in your ward? What else can you tell me about the bishop? I've met a bishop when I lived in Salt Lake. He was not as knowledgeable about his church or the LDS doctrine as his wife. Was that a rare thing or is that common?

Thanks for your ideas,

Dr. T

I think you should talk to your bishop about this. :) Bishops are given special spiritual guidance. There are judges in the kingdom in the same manner of Moses and the judges he appointed.

The Traveler

The Traveler

[Dr T]

Hi Traveler,

That was funny. You bring up an interesting point that they "are given special spiritual guidance." By what means is that manifest? Isn't it, as some has said, sometimes about "the people you know/are in good favor with." That sounds sort of like nepotism and I do not necessarily see them (in that case) being chosen by God and ordained with special discernment. That is just my initial thought.

Dr. T

[Palerider]

keep the comments coming.....I am enjoying this........

[Dr T]

What about your thoughts on this Palerider?

[Winnie G]

A bishop does not become a bishop because of his knowledge

Boy have you got that right, I have seen university professors called to use car salesmen.

One thing I have learned over the years is that not every bishop is called called for our good but rather his good.

They live righteously, are called by God, and happen to be known and probably liked by higher-up Church leaders.

No not always, try a car salesmen for a couple years, who rips apart all the callings and places members in callings like his running a business with in two weeks of being called.

In those two years, many packed up and moved to other wards some just stopped coming.

Hurt and berated youth fell away due to armature Phc 101 is used.

As the years have pasted those, who were stronger stuck it out, say they have watched a more humble man come out of that used car salesmen.

Some of the see yah later members have trickled back after a lot of good home teaching and a new bishop.

In hindsight you could see how one mans calling winnowed out a mushy congregation.

We sold our house and moved on. It was time to go and we had a teenage daughter he was not to fond of. She begged and we moved. She still has wounds from his action and to this day hates him.

Why wrong men seem to be placed were they can do real harm? I don’t know. But I do know heavenly father has a bigger agenda we do not always know about.

When we moved and during my first Temple recommend interview the stake leader told me he knows we had misgivings and hurt feeling towards our old bishop and he asked how it affected us in sustaing the leaders of the church?

I told him that you can sustain "the office" of bishop even when you have misgiving. You hold callings and in our case three at a time and doing what was asked of us. Even though we felt at times heavenly father received the wrong number doring this call. There were times the mantle of a bishop could be seen on him so we sustained "that" office. The stake leader was amazed at my answer.

I did receive my recommend.

Its not always for us.

[Dr T]

Thank you for your direct answer Winnie :)

[Guest just_jason76]

I can think of a great example of a person truly being called of God and the mantle they hold being passed on the next person who is called to that office. After the death of the Prophet Joseph, Brigham Young was addressing a group of Saints. Many recalled how Brigham sounded, even looked like Joseph. It was a testimony to them of how the Lord calls his prophet, and they knew Brigham was to be the next prophet.

[Dr T]

Interesting idea Just_J

[Ray]

Hey Dr.t

I know you were probably looking for LDS people to comment on this but i hope i can comment as well. I've been around a fair share of Bishops in my life, and i've seen a lot of different facets of the calling. From my best knowledge a Bishop is called to the position. The people who do the calling are prompted by the spirit, and, at least i hope, prompted by the person and his actions and knowledge as well. People are asked to consult with the Bishop because he is the head of the ward I personally liken it to speaking to the priest of my parish when i was catholic. a wise man who has the vocation(for the time being) of helping the ward family in all areas that he can. People can correct me at any time. The wonderful, but also possibly worrisome aspect of the calling is that while you have to meet certain criteria( be a member in good standing, hold a reccomend ect...) each Bishop also brings their own personality and personal traits to the job.

Personally i don't think the Bishops have all the right answers. Not an insult to any Bishops because i know a few and even i turn to them when i have troubles, but they are human and now and then(even with divine help) they can be wrong. Are bishops the most knowledgeable in the ward? I honestly don't think the the calling of Bishop means yo uare the most knowing, but also having the most knowledge doesn't always mean a great deal when dealing with some problems. I personally like the well rounded Bishops.

In the past year I've had to deal, directly and indirectly, with 2 Bishops over a few different topics.

1) a close friend of mine is getting a divorce. Her ex-hubby won't let go and is always pushing her to get back together, telling he kids it's all her fault, attacking any support base she has to try and strengthen herself. Asked the Bishop for help, and he went out of his way to help. Told her to cut all contact with him, helped arrange a go between, and even said he'd sit in on a meeting with the two of him on a day when he couldn't usually. he went above and beyond in my eyes. He was great.

2) THis same close friend has 4 kids. She's a single mom who has to work a lot of hours. I would go out and stay over to take care of the kids or give her a hand, and provide a male role model now and then if needed. honestly, yes it can look bad, more so because the divorce isn't final. So she went to talk to the Bishop and told him how things were. He'd met me at church a few times and seen me take the kids when she wasn't there. the Bishop sat and listened and accepted her word and made me feel very welcome. Not long ago they had a new Bishop called. the topic of me came up and he wouldn't believe her for love nor money. In his eyes there had to be a romanic relationship. Still not sure he's gotten over that thought, but i haven't been out again to deal with it.

Point being both bishops brought a lot to the table and are unique, both are wise men but deal with things a lil different. I'm getting more and more respect for bishops, saw a few who really had no clue when i was younger, but my faith in them is increasing.

Wow. That is a very good post, especially from someone who is agnostic, but one other point that I am thinking of now is that a bishop is one of the main links in God's church.

Or in other words, not only are bishops usually very good people, but they also have some of the main keys in God's kingdom, and anything they need to meet the needs of other people can be supplied through the work of the Church.... and the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints can do a LOT to meet the needs of ALL people.

[Dr T]

Thank you for your input Ray. Do you believe that the "keys" of which you speak are only possible through church members?

Thanks again

[Ray]

Thank you for your input Ray. Do you believe that the "keys" of which you speak are only possible through church members?

Thanks again

Yes. Only leaders of the Church, or the kingdom of God, can give keys of the kingdom to others... and they can only give the keys they've received, and they can also take them away (or make them ineffective)

[Dr T]

Wow. So you are saying that the church can give "abilities" so members and then take those abilities away? Not just roles but actual faculties?

Thanks

[Ray]

Heh, one of the leaders of the Church is Jesus Christ Himself, and Yes, He can take those things away.

[Dr T]

Would He say, take away the ability to be financially responsible (to someone that has been his/her whole life)?

[Ray]

No, but He can take away someone's idea about HOW to be financially responsible, by assuring someone that they should rely upon Him, instead of only themselves or their employer or the government for finances.

[Dr T]

Thanks Ray. Will you please give me other example of what you mean by this? Real life examples are preferred not possible scenarios. Thank you Ray.

[Dror]

Thank you Winnie,

You are quite right--bishops are not always "for us," but are apparently called for other reasons, unknown to us.

In my ward there was a certain young woman who was physically disabled, so much so that she could not work and was receiving government assistance. However, she still needed some help from the Church and asked the bishop. He refused to believe that she actually was ill! He said it was all in her head, that if she changed her attitude she could do a lot more than she thought. He also kept demanding her medical records and a list of her medications so he could look over them himself and see which meds she really needed. At one point, he even told her that she didn't need toothpaste, because people in 3rd world countries don't always have toothpaste, and she could use baking soda (this was part of the bishop's effort to reduce her expenses to within her means)! Ok, true enough, but a bit bizarre. Why does the bishops' storehouse carry toothpaste then? And why does the Church send toothpaste in its care packages to 3rd world countries and disaster areas? Would it kill the bishop just to order some toothpaste for her from the bishops' storehouse? He also insisted she attend Church regularly even though she was pretty much bedridden. She tried it once, and collapsed on the floor. There was at least one other person in the ward in somewhat similar circumstances who the bishop insisted ought to attend church, and another brother who was not disabled, but saw the way the bishop treated disabled people, and became inactive because of it.

A man in my parents' former ward was falsely accused of a crime, and the police dropped him as a suspect. However, various people in their ward including the bishop believed the accusation. They released the man from his callings and treated him and his family like outcasts. They complained to the stake president, but he sided with the bishop. It got to the point where my parents were among the few people in the ward who remained friends with this man and his family. My parents finally contacted Salt Lake and the higher-ups investigated. The entire bishopric was released and a man brought in from another ward to be the new bishop. Justice was done, but only after a lot of pain and anguish. The family decided, and easily got permission, to attend another ward, even after the reorganization.

Though most bishops are ok, one will run across "bad apples" from time to time. With those, I just grit my teeth, avoid them as much as possible, and support them in their callings.

The way I look at it, we are supposed to support our bishops in much the same way women are to obey their husbands--as they obey the Lord. And who decides if the husband is obeying the Lord? The wife has to be convinced of it. If our bishop is doing something wrong, therefore, I believe we are under no obligation to support him in that action. But when he is doing his calling right, we are supposed to support him, even if we don't like him.

Dror

[Marsha]

Dror,

Well said. We have to remember that our Bishops are called to do their jobs. None are perfect to say the least, however saying that I think that most do well with their callings. The other ones, sometimes I think that they are "placed" in that position to fill a need of the ward. Unfortunatly, not always the right person for the job.

The Bishop is responsible for ALL the people within the boundaries of his ward, whether members or not. Some would disagree but that is how it is supposed to be. I was told that over and over when when I was investigating the Church.

For anyone, let alone a leader of the Church - any Church - to do this to people is so bad. Was/ Is he a doctor? Just wondering.

What is the saying, something like the CHurch is true and perfect, the members are not?

Marsha