What Lies Ahead...

[lds2]

For a long time I was of the mind and had the very real desire to do everything to make sure I would live through such time.

Now, it really doesn't matter. All that matters is that I become worthy to inherit the Celestial Kingdom.

If I prove so worthy then should I die before his return, I will return with him. If I prove so worthy and live until his return, then I will rise up to meet him. Either way, when he comes, I'll be with him.

Can you only prepare spiritually and still obtain "God's Plan of Happiness" or the Celestial Kingdom? I think President Uchtdorf answered this question in our last General Conference...

President Uchtdorf in his most recent talk in conference (which is featured on the front page and is THE focus of the NEW Provident Living site) said, "Like two sides of a coin, the temporal and spiritual are inseparable...The Giver of all life has proclaimed, “All things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal.”...Unfortunately, there are those who overlook the temporal because they consider it less important. They treasure the spiritual while minimizing the temporal."..."The one complements the other. The one without the other is a counterfeit of God’s plan of happiness."..."This work of providing in the Lord’s way is not simply another item in the catalog of programs of the Church. It cannot be neglected or set aside. It is central to our doctrine; it is the essence of our religion. We must not turn aside our hearts or our heads from becoming more self-reliant...The temporal is intertwined with the spiritual. God has given us this mortal experience and the temporal challenges that attend it as a laboratory where we can grow into the beings Heavenly Father wants us to become."

The First Presidency told us in a "Message" to the Church that it is a COMMANDMENT from Heavenly Father to "Prepare Every Needful Thing." Can we ignore this commandment and still get to the Celestial Kingdom based on only our spiritual preparations... (If you believe the answer is yes, please read the paragraph above again...:))

Trick question...you can't be spiritually prepared without being temporally prepared...as President Uchtdorf said they are "intertwined.'

*

Edited December 7, 2011 by lds2

[Martain]

Heh, you quoted me =)

If I gave the impression that I was talking about spiritual preparedness to the exclusion of temporal then I apologize. You're right, they're a package deal.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think that what people view as entitlement is we don't want to work for lower pay than adults for same jobs, etc. not out of laziness.

Haha, that is the same complaint, essentially, Cain had. That is sad.

This is the correct attitude;

"The Apostle Paul wrote, “In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you” (1 Thes. 5:18). The prophet Alma taught, “When thou risest in the morning let thy heart be full of thanks unto God” (Alma 37:37). And in modern revelation the Lord declared that “he who receiveth all things with thankfulness shall be made glorious; and the things of this earth shall be added unto him, even an hundred fold” (D&C 78:19)."

And; "The Lord taught the prophet Moroni, “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble,” and then promised that “if they humble themselves … and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them” (Ether 12:27). In the midst of the persecutions the Latter-day Saints were suffering in Missouri, the Lord gave a similar teaching and promise: “Verily I say unto you my friends, fear not, let your hearts be comforted; yea, rejoice evermore, and in everything give thanks; … and all things wherewith you have been afflicted shall work together for your good” (D&C 98:1, 3). And to Joseph Smith in the afflictions of Liberty Jail, the Lord said, “Know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good” (D&C 122:7). "

It is the lack of humility which leads to a lack of thankfulness about the situation that is the problem, not "laziness".

[Magen_Avot]

Honestly, we have enough to learn about the nature of Christ and how to be like Him, and how to keep our covenants, without digging up old unaccepted opinions (notice I did not say doctrine) and trying to convince people that they are true. Maybe do some reading about keeping your eye on the mark.

Bravo Miss Eowyn, Brav-O! (on several levels if I may say)

[lds2]

Our Gift to Him

Difficult days are ahead. Sin is on the increase. Paul foresaw that members of the Church would endure persecution (see 2 Timothy 3:1–13; D&C 112:24–26). Peter counseled, “If any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf” (1 Peter 4:16). As Jesus descended below all things in order to rise above all things, He expects us to follow His example. Yoked with Him, each of us can rise above all of our challenges, no matter how difficult they may be (see Matthew 11:29–30).... And His gift to us will be the peace of knowing that we are prepared to meet Him, whenever that time comes....The fulness of the Master’s ministry lies in the future. The prophecies of His Second Coming have yet to be fulfilled. At Christmas, of course, we focus on His birth. And to this world He will come again....As a special witness of His holy name, I testify that Jesus the Christ is the divine Son of the living God. He will love you, lift you, and manifest Himself unto you if you will love Him and keep His commandments (see John 14:21). Indeed, wise men and women still adore Him.

Elder Russell M. Nelson

The Peace and Joy of Knowing the Savior Lives

December 2011 Ensign

As far as my original and subsequent posts...I don't see anything older than 2009 here.

As President Uchtdorf said in so many ways in his GC talk...the temporal and the spiritual are intertwined...we can't keep our covenants and be more like Jesus without obeying His commandments and temporal preparedness is a commandment from Heavenly Father...at least according to the First Presidency.

So I think at least my eye is pretty much on the mark... It looks like there will be some difficult days ahead for which we need to prepare both spiritually and temporally.

[Guest]

I think my post that was quoted was directed at the guy who was saying we can't accept any deeper doctrine because we don't accept the Adam-God "doctrine". . .or something like that. Like I told him, he lost me there, and I haven't actually read any more of this conversation until last night.

[Magen_Avot]

Well, yes and the alarmist talk. I did get that, but your comment is a defining one and has important implications for us all to consider (in general), IMO at least.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Magen_Avot

[Swag]

Haha, that is the same complaint, essentially, Cain had. That is sad.

This is the correct attitude;

"The Apostle Paul wrote, “In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you” (1 Thes. 5:18). The prophet Alma taught, “When thou risest in the morning let thy heart be full of thanks unto God” (Alma 37:37). And in modern revelation the Lord declared that “he who receiveth all things with thankfulness shall be made glorious; and the things of this earth shall be added unto him, even an hundred fold” (D&C 78:19)."

And; "The Lord taught the prophet Moroni, “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble,” and then promised that “if they humble themselves … and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them” (Ether 12:27). In the midst of the persecutions the Latter-day Saints were suffering in Missouri, the Lord gave a similar teaching and promise: “Verily I say unto you my friends, fear not, let your hearts be comforted; yea, rejoice evermore, and in everything give thanks; … and all things wherewith you have been afflicted shall work together for your good” (D&C 98:1, 3). And to Joseph Smith in the afflictions of Liberty Jail, the Lord said, “Know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good” (D&C 122:7). "

It is the lack of humility which leads to a lack of thankfulness about the situation that is the problem, not "laziness".

Good point that I completely agree with. I probably should of rephrased it as I do not want to be persecuted or treated unjustly because of my age. I used a poor example. Timothy 4:12 comes to mind.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Good point that I completely agree with. I probably should of rephrased it as I do not want to be persecuted or treated unjustly because of my age. I used a poor example. Timothy 4:12 comes to mind.

Thanks for the response. This is not aimed at you at all, just adding my comment to the words used. .... Being "treated unjustly" should never be a reason to murmur but this is much easier said than done. I am not perfect about that by any means, that is a constant struggle for me because I more often "say it how it is". I think if we murmur or complain, even when it is against injustices against us, then Satan wins twice.

I think this is more of a struggle for the younger crowd, though, because they are constantly fed this standard of being "politically correct" so they feel a greater "injustice" is served them when faced with prejudices against age, race, sex, etc. In other words, their murmurs are intensified by what they think they deserve in terms of "political correctness". But it all comes back to what a person thinks they deserve, and the root of that is selfishness.

[lds2]

I'm pretty sure that at times being something of an alarmist is in the prophet and apostle's job description. I have mostly been quoting the prophets and apostles in this thread about what lies ahead...

Moses said, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!" (Numb. 11:29.) So we all need to study these things and decide for ourselves and then seek the Spirit to know what is in our future.

While I'm not in any way a prophet...I do love to study their words such as Elder Bednar's repeated counsel over the past few years to "watch with all perseverence" he said, "Spiritual warnings should lead to increasingly vigilant watching. You and I live in “a day of warning” (D&C 63:58). And because we have been and will be warned, we need to be, as the Apostle Paul admonished, “watching...with all perseverance” (Ephesians 6:18 )." (April 2010) A similar message was given by him in an education week address soon after this conference talk.

Presentations*–*BYU–Idaho

Peter said, "There shall come in the last days scoffers," who would mock those who seek to understand prophecy and seek to "watch" for and prepare for the Second Coming.

2 Peter 3:3-4

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers...

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

The prophets have told us that it is a commandment from Heavenly Father to "prepare every needful thing"...https://lds.org/family/family-well-being/home-storage?lang=eng so that we can help ourselves and others should adversity or calamity come.

Since many of the prophets and apostles are talking of difficult times ahead it would behoove us to obey this commandment.

*

Edited December 10, 2011 by lds2

[mrmarklin]

I think that what people view as entitlement is we don't want to work for lower pay than adults for same jobs, etc. not out of laziness.

Swag think of this: No one feels more entitled than the current Geezer generation here in the US.

They feel entitled to more than their fair share of retirement benefits (social security is actuarily bankrupt now), health benefits (Medicare is technically bankrupt now) etc etc. Your generation will bear the burden of this, either through astronomical taxation or much reduced benefit compared to the current retirement community. Here in the US we are currently running unsustainable deficits that will be either paid or defaulted upon by your generation.

These problems are so great that in Europe, who are a few years ahead of us in this, that threats to the financial system are emerging that literally could cause a depression.

Don't feel you have to defend anything Swag--it's on us.

[NoxNullaEgetDeumPerfectum]

We still as members of the church, I believe dont know all of what is to come and already is. We can pray and seek revealtion, power and wisdom from God. The same can be done in connection to the devil but for evil. Their our dark forces in our goverments and other higher levels in our society. They will pave the way out of greed and lust knowingly or unknowingly to satans power over the Earth. Remeber Satan was against free agencey and in effect rebelled against God. When your rights here on this earth begin to be taken away and society begins to become tolitarian these are warnings of the powers trying to take over. We have been dukeing it out with satan for many generations since the crucifiction of Jesus and before. Our church has messages, teachings and ideas very different from others. The US goverment right now is angry with the LDS church for stocking up on food and encouraging its members to stock up, why? I dont know. Aswell a bill recently passed and in it said many things against the constitution but some how it passed, anyways in it said any american citizen with more than a weeks food in their home is considered a threat against our security. Haveing food is a threat? I warn you all a storm is comeing... and when it comes it wont be easy. All of our faith and strength of will, will be challenged.

[Justice]

Interesting, though, that when, in the Book of Mormon, the people are faced with hardships and trials they turn to God. It is in the times of ease, plenty and prosperity that they foreget Him and turn from Him.

Interesting if this time of ease and prosperity is the danger we're being most warned of.

[lds2]

I think of when (in the BOM) the only ones willing to feed the poor and the needy were righteous members of the Church. It seems that most Saint's plan is to be among the "poor and the needy" but "Providing in the Lord's Way" Welfare and Self Reliance Principles | ProvidentLiving.org requires us to be among those who have food to share...and I don't think they are talking about what's in our cupboards.

[lds2]

Our Gift to Him

Difficult days are ahead. Sin is on the increase. Paul foresaw that members of the Church would endure persecution (see 2 Timothy 3:1–13; D&C 112:24–26). Peter counseled, “If any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf” (1 Peter 4:16). As Jesus descended below all things in order to rise above all things, He expects us to follow His example. Yoked with Him, each of us can rise above all of our challenges, no matter how difficult they may be (see Matthew 11:29–30).... And His gift to us will be the peace of knowing that we are prepared to meet Him, whenever that time comes....The fulness of the Master’s ministry lies in the future. The prophecies of His Second Coming have yet to be fulfilled. At Christmas, of course, we focus on His birth. And to this world He will come again....As a special witness of His holy name, I testify that Jesus the Christ is the divine Son of the living God. He will love you, lift you, and manifest Himself unto you if you will love Him and keep His commandments (see John 14:21). Indeed, wise men and women still adore Him.

Elder Russell M. Nelson

The Peace and Joy of Knowing the Savior Lives

December 2011 Ensign

[lds2]

Whatever that will or won't mean...

[Still_Small_Voice]

The end of the world 2012 beliefs are false. The LORD's coming is going to be like Peter and Paul wrote:

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. - II Peter 3

The day of judgment is going to come like a thief in the night to the wicked.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. - I Thessalonians 5

[lds2]

The end of the world 2012 beliefs are false. The LORD's coming is going to be like Peter and Paul wrote:

1 The day of judgment is going to come like a thief in the night to the wicked.

...4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. - I Thessalonians 5

This reminds me of Elder Bednar's talk where he talked about many of us being spiritual giants but what good is a sleeping giant? We must "watch with all perseverence" (he said several times over several talks in the past several years.)

I've been thinking a lot about the record breaking drought we are currently in (which is currently globally far reaching.)

We have lived so long in abundance that many of us can't fathom anything else. People who would suggest that things could change are mostly treated with ridicule and disdain...after all we have lived in abundance for generations now and the store shelves and the refrigerator remain full.

For us to return to truly being self-reliant it would be much like Adam leaving the garden of Eden...at one time Adam was able to reach out and gather food from the trees and bushes, similarly we have always been able to reach in the refrigerator and pull something out and put it in our microwave.

We don't worry because if our refrigerator becomes empty, surely there will be a friend, government or Church who will fill it for us (and our children) again since that has always been our experience.

If we ever have to earn our bread from the "sweat of our brows" most of us are in big trouble...I think that is why there is so much vitriol when the topic of things changing or preparedness comes up.

It's like as long as you don't think bad thoughts no bad things will happen...even though we know we are in the last days and the Savior told us in Matthew 24 what to expect and we have been lovingly commanded by HEAVENLY FATHER to prepare "every needful thing."

While a commandment to prepare COULD be a test of obedience (as it has been for the last generations) at some point it could turn into a requirement for survival. While it is great to be obedienct to a commandment...at some point things could change and I want all my friends and especially their children to survive and thrive!

Edited July 12, 2012 by lds2

[lds2]

I know it is not orthodox now-a-days to consider or admit the possibility of a famine coming upon the inhabitants of North America. Do we not possess the richest country in the world?...

Yes; and yet I read in the revelations which the Lord has given to us that a day of famine will come upon the land...When that day shall come we will learn, if we do not learn it before, that the community which is the nearest self-supporting will be the most independent and the most prosperous that can be found anywhere in the land.

Pres. Joseph F. Smith, Collected Discourses, Vol. 5, Discourse given at General Conference, Sat., Oct. 8. 1892 in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, UT.

[lds2]

I am so grateful for the harvest this past year in the plains. It has really helped and given us some time to gather when there is an abundance into our homes (which would be unethical to do in a time of real famine.)

A friend was just pondering on how long a 25 bag of rice would feed her family of 6 and figured 5 1/2 days. That same same bag would feed one person for a month, or a typical sized ward would get 1/3 cup cooked rice for one meal (or less than a side dish serving).

It was just a few years ago in Oct 2006 that President Hinckley told the sisters in the General Women's Meeting the following:

"Relief Society stands for self-reliance. The best food storage is...in sealed cans and bottles in the homes of our people. What a gratifying thing it is to see cans of wheat and rice and beans under the beds or in the pantries of women who have taken welfare responsibility into their own hands. Such food may not be tasty, but it will be nourishing if it has to be used."