I Have 6 Questions....

[reyjamiei]

I assume you're refering to:

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

It's funny you should bring this up...usually this verse is used against Mormons and the Book of Mormon in particular.

Yes that verse is often used against Mormons and the Book of Mormon but anyone who's ever read the Book of Mormon knows or should know that it's not any other gospel. It's another Testament of Jesus Christ. On one hand people accuse it of being another gospel than the one the New Testament Apostles preached and on the other hand they accuse it of being too similar to the New Testament in some parts.

[rosie321]

I can appreciate a genuine seeker as mentioned before. So I'll take you at your word. Here are some more thoughts and answers to consider.

1. Understand that learning is line upon line. Milk before the meat as the scriptures say.

Sometimes you need to know and understand other things first. If you can't accept the

most basic life changing concepts of the gospel and practice them how can you understand the deeper things?

Your web site and questions makes it appear as though you are trying to take a college graduate course before ever going to kindergarten. You have deep doctrinal questions which are more graduate level. This is what makes you seem insincere. At such a basic level you probably don't have the understandings to comprehend some of the deeper answers or express it in a way that will get you the answers you seek. Take an experiment on Gods words as the missionaries would say. Follow the most basic christian concepts of seek, pray, have faith, repent, etc and demonstrate you are on the right path to recieve answers. Whether you are LDS or not after that is between you and God. But you have to get that basic understanding.

2. Faith is very necessary and scary in understanding spiritual truths. There is no other way. As before, while there are some scientific proofs, for the most part "the just shall walk by faith" as the scriptures say. "Faith is the evidence of things not seen". Understand that God may not just pop out deep, indepth answers just like that. He wants you to labor and diligently seek Him. He needs you to be seeing things through the eyes of faith.

3. The Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of all things. Your attainment of recieving the fruits of the Spirit will let you know if you are on the right track. One of those fruits mentioned in the Bible is patience. You may have to wait for your answers until you graduate from college. A kindergartener can dream of being a doctor but has to go through the education and training first.

4. The LDS style of worshipping God is different from other faiths. It is very progressional. Most of the other christian faiths I have ever known, while they encourage rightful living it is not expected to the degree in the LDS. You say a prayer and are saved. You can go to church if you want to. With the LDS its continually growing in Christ and changing. It is not a one time process but a continual one. We know we don't have to have all the answers in one day but we will get them. There is no fear. "We don't have to run faster than we have strength." It is not as cut and dry as other faiths but there is an underlying trust and faith that God will work things out as they are meant to be. We just keep walking one step at a time getting rid of all the clutter and filling it with the spirit of God. By doing this we are unbinding ourself from the bad and recieving another piece of salvation.

5. Accept that there are some things we may never know or understand in this lifetime but we need to make sure we get the basics down such as Love of God, faith, repentence, renewal......

6. Be ready to recieve whatever answer you may get. Keep asking because with your faithful asking you will recieve the answer in the Lord's due time. Whether it be through prayer, scriptures, others you will recieve the knowledge you seek.

May you find the answers you seek.

In Christ

[Traveler]

Proverbs 18:17 NIV

17 The first to present his case seems right,

till another comes forward and questions him.

I say if you want to know about someone, you need to ask their enemies. Now, I'm not saying you only ask their enemies, or that you accept everything and anything they say, but you need to hear their opinion.

You have misquoted the scripture. The scripture indicates that you should question the person about what they have said. This scripture does not in any way recommend that you question him based on what others have said.

Jesus taught that if you will try something that you will know if it is true. This is in essence the scientific method. If someone says a thing and you are interested then you try it and check your results results against what they claim.

If you take note - you and I have had a very interesting conversation because we are each talking to each other and asking questions based on what each of us thinks. If you were a scientist and never attempted to try anything else that anyone had done but ONLY sought out others that failed you would never advance scientific knowledge for yourself. If you tried communism (in your own home) or lived under communism then tried democracy in the same manner - you are telling me that you could not determine which of the two is better or who lies and who tell the truth?

Now, you said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

"I believe Jesus taught that we are only to teach his gospel and not other's gospel. So if someone claims to be a follower of Jesus but teaches about other faiths - they are really not followers of Jesus.

I assume you're refering to:

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

It's funny you should bring this up...usually this verse is used against Mormons and the Book of Mormon in particular.

I cannot answer why they use this scripture but for me it is clear - teach what you know is right from your own experience. Trying to teach anything from someone else's experience is so flawed there is no court of real justice, that I know of, that will allow such second hand witness to convict someone. I wonder why you find any joy in such a thing that is so contrary to basic liberty, truth and justice.

The Traveler

[JoshuaFKon]

Rosie,

Thank you for at least giving me the benifit of the doubt, however, as for your answers.

Understand that learning is line upon line. Milk before the meat as the scriptures say.

Sometimes you need to know and understand other things first. If you can't accept the

most basic life changing concepts of the gospel and practice them how can you understand the deeper things?

Your web site and questions makes it appear as though you are trying to take a college graduate course before ever going to kindergarten. You have deep doctrinal questions which are more graduate level. This is what makes you seem insincere. At such a basic level you probably don't have the understandings to comprehend some of the deeper answers or express it in a way that will get you the answers you seek. Take an experiment on Gods words as the missionaries would say. Follow the most basic christian concepts of seek, pray, have faith, repent, etc and demonstrate you are on the right path to recieve answers. Whether you are LDS or not after that is between you and God. But you have to get that basic understanding.

First of all, I don't believe my questions are "deep doctrinal questions" I'm not asking, "why in there suffering in the world?" or "what is free will?" I am asking questions like..."explain the translation of the Book of Abraham" etc... Secondly, I do follow the "basic christian concepts" of pray, faith, etc.

Now, as for Traveler's answer,

I quoted Proverbs 18:17

Proverbs 18:17 NIV

17 The first to present his case seems right,

till another comes forward and questions him.

and you replied:

You have misquoted the scripture. The scripture indicates that you should question the person about what they have said. This scripture does not in any way recommend that you question him based on what others have said.

How did I "misquote" the scripture? It's word for word...I changed nothing. You may not agree with my interpretaion, but I did not misquote it. As for my interpretaion, does it say? "...till another comes forward and questions him based on his answers?" nope, it just says "questions him".

You also said:

I wonder why you find any joy in such a thing that is so contrary to basic liberty, truth and justice.

I assume you are refering to my last post when I said

I have a question about LDS teachings, alas, due to my love of "attacking" other faiths and the enjoyment I get from arguing the same points over and over again. ( I have also devloped a strange delight in being told I am a decitful person) a have come to you, members of the LDS church, to answer my questions.

Sadly, because I enjoy confustion and frustration, I have chosen to ignore they easy paths of "Asking them [the anti-mormons]" my questions, or simply "praying" about it, to receive instant faith (which, I have been told, I am serverly lacking in)

Oh, well....poor me.

apperently you are unfamiler with the concept of sarcasam...

Thanks again for your time,

Josh

Anyone feel like answering my questions?

http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/questions

[MBASS]

I have answered you questions by use of your contact form. You may post them here if you would like. I think they are legitimate questions, however, I was disturbed by the page of common answers im not satisfied with. That does make it seem like you are attacking those who try to answer. I dont know by reading those remarks what answers you are seeking that will satisfy you. As I have said in the past, with religion often times there is no concrete proof, thats where faith comes in. I live by my faith, what my heart tells me, and try not to mock God by testing my limits so to speak. I hope you enjoy some of my answers...I tried!

[Traveler]

Now, as for Traveler's answer,

I wonder why you find any joy in such a thing that is so contrary to basic liberty, truth and justice.

I assume you are referring to my last post when I said

I am referring to your use of hearsay and second hand information. If we were in a court of law I would object to your introducing of hearsay information saying it does not apply to the question. It is not part of studying doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS nor does it come from any LDS member.

Jesus said to beware of false teachers that pretend to be sheep but are wolfs. He said to identify them by their fruits. Then he gave an example of the exact fruits we should use to identify wolfs when he said do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles? Of course not - if you want grapes you do not go to thorn bushes nor do you go to thistles to find figs. You get grapes from grape vines and figs from fig trees - that is unless you are a wolf intending to distroy Christ's sheep - then you will gather your grape questions from thorns and get your fig questions from thistles. Jesus was an expert teacher with symbolism.

The Traveler

[JoshuaFKon]

Hello,

Please explain, what exactly did I say that was "hearsay and second hand information"

Thanks,

Josh

[Traveler]

Hello,

Please explain, what exactly did I say that was "hearsay and second hand information"

Thanks,

Josh

*sigh* I never said I "thought these questions up on my own" As I reseached Mormonism, I read both the Pro and the Con on Mormonism.

Anyting that is not really from you is hearsay especially if you imply you have a question. Anything you get from a thorn bush or thistle is not grape or fig. Anything you get from a thorn bush that you address to a grape is hearsay. Anything you get from a thistle and you address to a fig is hearsay. Is this too hard a concept for you?

Do you not believe in the words of Christ? Do you still believe it is a good idea to get grapes from thorns and figs from thistles?

The Traveler

[JoshuaFKon]

Let me see if I understand you correctly,

Becaue I became aware of these questions from a source other than the offical LDS Church, my questions and any other questions from non-mormon sites, are by definition: "hearsay" and therefore a "thistle" from a "thorn bush"

And I by implication don't believe in the words of Christ?

I'm not being sarcastic here...is that really what you're saying?

thanks,

Josh

[Traveler]

Let me see if I understand you correctly,

Becaue I became aware of these questions from a source other than the offical LDS Church, my questions and any other questions from non-mormon sites, are by definition: "hearsay" and therefore a "thistle" from a "thorn bush"

And I by implication don't believe in the words of Christ?

I'm not being sarcastic here...is that really what you're saying?

thanks,

Josh

Why will you not answer my question directly - why would you seek grapes from any other source than a grape vine or figs from any other source than a fig tree?

Your source is not just a non-mormon source but a sorce that is thorny towards the LDS.

This is not about what I am trying to say but what Jesus said. It is his question to you - do you gather grapes of thorns and figs of thistles? What I am saying is that it sure looks that way to me. So I ask you where did you get your questions? From a grape source or a thorn source?

So far I do not find any evidence you have considered any LDS source. I find no reason to believe you have studied anything from the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS at all - especially before you arrived upon you questions or conclusions

So I will ask another question - it was also asked in kind in scripture and I do not expect to get any more answer now that then - Does you personal belief allow you to condemn the LDS faith before you have heard from them? Would you tell us what is your religious sect - and what position you hold withing that sect or hope to hold within that sect someday? And tell us why you have studied or said that you have studied the LDS faith?

The Traveler

[JoshuaFKon]

So far I do not find any evidence you have considered any LDS source. I find no reason to believe you have studied anything from the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS at all - especially before you arrived upon you questions or conclusions

What would I have to due to convince you I've "studied anything from the Church of Jesus Christ"? Becuase I have.

So I will ask another question - it was also asked in kind in scripture and I do not expect to get any more answer now that then - Does you personal belief allow you to condemn the LDS faith before you have heard from them?

let's see....who "condemning" and who's asking questions? Plus, I could condemn if I wanted to, because I have heard from them.

Would you tell us what is your religious sect - and what position you hold withing that sect or hope to hold within that sect someday?

My "religious sect" is Christianity, and I hold no official position within that "sect", and I do not aspire to hold office.

And tell us why you have studied or said that you have studied the LDS faith

If you would go to my site, on the homepage it answers that question. I will quote it for you.

I have been asked " why are you researching Mormonism?" well two reasons, one, to help other people who are reseching it. I hope this site will answer their questions. My other reason is best sumed up with this short (pro-mormon) video

The Mormons were right?! [this is a link on my site]

Thank you,

Josh

P.S. Also, thanks to MBASS for answering my questions I will reply as soon as I study them. thank you.

[Snow]

Hello! :)

I am researching Mormonism, and I have 6 questions ....Looking for members of the LDS church.

Translation: 'I am a-look'n to cast aspersions on the Church of Jesus Christ and I bet I can do it with 6 questions I plagarized from an an anti-Mormons source that you Mormons won't be able to answer...'

Off the top of my head (and I'm hardly ever wrong about such things), I don't think you've got the substance to hash this sort of thing out. I wish I were wrong, but I doubt it.

Let's see, shall we?

You said: "(1) If the Book of Mormon is true then, considering the way it was "translated" why have there been any changes made to it?"

Of course the underlying supposition to your question it that the "way" the Book of Mormon was "translated" precluded any changes to the text.

You've made an implicit claim that is baseless and unsupportable. That's my charge.

Can you back up your assertions? (me thinks not)

First of All,

I will not defend Christianity because (1) I am not fishished researching it.

Okay - so you're not a Christian.

This should be good. You closed your first post with "God Bless"

Prey tell what's your religious/spiritual persuasion?

I don't come here "under false pretenses" if you click my user name it will tell you I am a Christian. If you go to my website I am very clear that I am a Christian trying to be objective.

Never mind the last question. I see that you at least claim to be a Christian. So you just hold The Church of Jesus Christ to a different standard, or you can dish it out but can't take it.

Got it. (just so we know what kind of guy we're dealing with)

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

Hello! :)

I am researching Mormonism, and I have 6 questions ....Looking for members of the LDS church.

Translation: 'I am a-look'n to cast aspersions on the Church of Jesus Christ and I bet I can do it with 6 questions I plagarized from an an anti-Mormons source that you Mormons won't be able to answer...'

Off the top of my head (and I'm hardly ever wrong about such things), I don't think you've got the substance to hash this sort of thing out. I wish I were wrong, but I doubt it.

Let's see, shall we? ...

Maybe I've been here too long...call it the Stolkholm Syndrome, but I'm actually starting to enjoy these "Snow bursts."

[Snow]

Maybe I've been here too long...call it the Stolkholm Syndrome, but I'm actually starting to enjoy these "Snow bursts."

Are you intimating that we've taken you hostage but your starting to identify with and have loyalty to your captor?

This guy is pretty transparent. He barely tried to camouflage his agenda or lacked the subtly to do it properly. He's really pretty pedestrian. Most these guys are such lightweigths that they fold at the drop of a anti-Mormon hate video. The key is to challenge them just enough without blowing them out of the water so that they at least give a high school try before folding.

Since my last post I've looked at the guy's website briefly so I have a decent idea about his integrity and education (on things LDS) and agenda.... I may not even have to wake up for this one.

ps. When Jason first came on the board, I gave him the same thing. He was one out of a hundred (or more) that knew what he was talking about and could reason properly.

[Traveler]

<div class='quotemain'>

Maybe I've been here too long...call it the Stolkholm Syndrome, but I'm actually starting to enjoy these "Snow bursts."

Are you intimating that we've taken you hostage but your starting to identify with and have loyalty to your captor?

This guy is pretty transparent. He barely tried to camouflage his agenda or lacked the subtly to do it properly. He's really pretty pedestrian. Most these guys are such lightweigths that they fold at the drop of a anti-Mormon hate video. The key is to challenge them just enough without blowing them out of the water so that they at least give a high school try before folding.

Since my last post I've looked at the guy's website briefly so I have a decent idea about his integrity and education (on things LDS) and agenda.... I may not even have to wake up for this one.

ps. When Jason first came on the board, I gave him the same thing. He was one out of a hundred (or more) that knew what he was talking about and could reason properly.

Perhaps this is a first for you and me Snow - we have finely found something posted that we both agree on.

The Traveler

[Snow]

Oh - the problem with saying exactly how I go about these things is that the antagonist bolts without fully engaging. That's a risk I s'pose but half of such fellows are idealogues and can't help themselves anyway.

Another charactersitic of such types (found in about 95%) is that they have a specific world-view founded in their religious peculiarities. They are never seeking information (as they falsely pretend) rather they are engaging in boundary maintenance to defend and edify their world-view and own sense of worth. What they know about Mormonism (or whatever group they set up as the the sub-acceptable "other" is what they have specifically sought out to justify their prior held beliefs. That is - they never seek to discover the truth, rather they mine the sources looking just for what might support their beliefs. That puts them at an mostly impossible disadvantage.

He may be an ex-Mormon but is almost certainly an Evangelical or Baptist of some sort...

Pretty routine stuff.

Perhaps this is a first for you and me Snow - we have finely found something posted that we both agree on.

The Traveler

Traveler,

I agree with most of what you say - I just don't like to admit it.

[prisonchaplain]

Snow asks: Are you intimating that we've taken you hostage but your starting to identify with and have loyalty to your captor? This guy is pretty transparent. He barely tried to camouflage his agenda or lacked the subtly to do it properly.

Perhaps this is a first for you and me Snow - we have finely found something posted that we both agree on. The Traveler

Where we differ is that I believe nearly all these folk (call them anti, ignorant, or whatever) really think they are trying to help. At the same time, the quick turn to defensive tone, combined with aggressive 'questions,' ... well, it just doesn't help. And then, rather than learning how to engage in good and God-natured dialogue, the tone gets even shriller.

So, yes, bottom-line--perhaps a combination of AK's sheer knowledge, Traveler's experiences, and Snow's fecal-matter shovel will "minister" to these well-intentioned by conversationally-challenged folk.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Stockholm syndrome...isn't that where you think you're in Stockholm wherever you are?

bwahahahahahaha, just kiddin'

[Dr T]

Cut that out A.K.

[JoshuaFKon]

*Sigh*

Let me tell you a little about myself, I am now 18 years old, and I was raised in a strong Christian home. When I was about 15 years old, I had to defend my faith to a friend of mine, and I really just couldn't do it. I was also going through I rough period of time in my life that made me question my faith. I began to doubt my religon and wonder if there was even a God. Most of my family and friends are christians, but I can't say that they really researched Christianity, most of them just have "faith" in Christianity. I wish sometimes that I had the same kind of faith as they do...that I could just believe and have no doubts. But I can't. Anyway, I decided to try and prove my faith to myself, I read heavily on the subject, wrote papers, and searched for evidence, I was convinced at last by reading "The Case for Christ" and researching the messianic prophicies. I am now convinced that Jesus is the Messiah. (When I said I won't defend christianity because I'm not done researching it, I meant I don't have sources or references.)

I aplogize if I came on too strong, I'm sure you hear these questions alot. If you want to believe I am an anti-mormon bigot, who refuses to have an open mind, that's your right, but I'm not.

I don't believe in Mormonism, actually it seems very strange and mostly based on a "burning bossum" or "a knowing" But I am trying to have an open mind and see if there are answers to these questions. So far only two people on here have attempted to answer them.

I don't want to come on like I know it all, because I don't, I have only been reseaching Mormonism for a week.

However, regardless of what you think of me personally I am going to continue asking these questions. since no one seems to want to go to my site I will try to post all my questions on here.

I understand that you anwser the same questions again and again, but this is my first week, so, if you would like to answer them go ahead, if not, no hard feelings.

Thank you,

Question #1

Why does the Book of Mormon, seem to contradic with the Doctrine's and Covenants, and The Book of Abraham? (I'm sorry this is hard to read, it's in a table on my site.)

A.What is God's attitude toward David and Solomon having more than one wife?

Notice that it is not a question of whether different people at different times might be commanded or permitted or forbidden to practice polygamy; it has only to do with God's view of specific acts of polygamy. And remember that God is unchanging! (Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 24:6)

Book of Mormon, Jacob 2:24 says that God considered David's and Solomon's polygamy as "abominable before me." (See also Jacob 1:15, 3:5.)

B.What is God's attitude toward David and Solomon having more than one wife?

At Doctrine’s and Covenants 132:38-39 God says that David and Solomon did not sin in having more than one wife, and David's wives were "given unto him of me."

At 2 Samuel 12:7-8 God says, through the prophet Nathan, that David's wives were given to him by God.

A.Does God dwell in man's heart?

Book of Mormon, Alma 34:36 says that "the Lord" dwells in the hearts of the righteous.

Does God dwell in man's heart?

B.Doctrine’s & Covenants 130:3 says that the "idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart" is false. (D&C 130:22 says that it is the Holy Ghost that "dwell in us")

A.Is there more than one God?

Book of Mormon Alma 11:26-29 says there is only one God. Also D&C 20:19, Pearl of Great Price Moses 1:6, as well as many Bible passages, such as Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 45:6, to name only a few

B.Is there more than one God?

Pearl of Great Price Abraham 4:27 refers to "the Gods" as does D&C 132:37. Orson Pratt's statement is typical of Mormon belief:

If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds. - JoD 2:345

A.How was Jesus conceived?

Book of Mormon Alma 7:10 prophesies that Christ would be born of Mary, "...she being a virgin... who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost,..."

BoM 1 Nephi 11, narrates a vision of Nephi. He sees the virgin Mary (v. 15-18), and then he "beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit;" (v. 19) and after a time he sees her "bearing a child in her arms" (v. 20)

B.How was Jesus conceived?

Brigham Young's stated: "When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was NOT begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family... Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven.... Now, remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (JoD 1:50-51)

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He ...was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (JoD 8:115)

"The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husabnd... That very babe that was cradled in the manger, was begotten, not by Joseph, the husband of Mary, but by another Being. Do you inquire by whom? He was begotten by God our heavenly Father." (JoD 11:268)

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote: "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966 ed, 546-547)

"He [Jesus] is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is that simple." (The Promised Messiah, pp 467-468).

A.Who created the world?

Pearl of Great Price Moses 2 says "I, God [created everything]..." (see also Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 2:14, Jacob 4:9, Alma 18:26-32).

Who created the world?

B.Pearl of Great Price Abraham 4 says "they (the Gods) [created everything]".

A.What happens to people who die before having had a chance to hear the gospel?

Book of Mormon Alma 34:32-35 says that those who do not repent before death are eternally lost: "...that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world... ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his,... and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked." (See also 2 Ne 9:38 and Mosiah 2:36-39)

B.What happens to people who die before having had a chance to hear the gospel?

D&C 76:71-78 says they will go only to the terrestrial kingdom (a lower kingdom than the celestial).

D&C 128 and 138 outline the Mormon "work for the dead," one of the principal purposes of the Mormon temples, to enable all the dead who repent (after death) to attain the celestial kingdom.

D&C 137:7-8 says they will go to the celestial kingdom

A.Is murder a forgivable sin?

Bool of Mormon 3 Nephi 30:2, Alma 39:6 (also the Bible at Matthew 12:31, Jeremiah 33:8) say that murder is forgivable.

Joseph Smith said: "All sins, and all blasphemies, and every transgression, except one, that man can be guilty of, may be forgiven; and there is a salvation for all men, either in this world or the world to come,... unless he has committed that unpardonable sin [the sin against the Holy Ghost]..." JoD 6:8 (the "King Follett Discourse")

B.Is murder a forgivable sin?

D&C 42:18 says murder is not forgivable.

Joseph Smith said: "A murderer, for instance, one that sheds innocent blood, cannot have forgiveness... They [can] not be baptized for the remission of sins for they [have] shed innocent blood." TJS 339

A.Where was the Garden of Eden located?

D&C 116 says it was located at "Adam-ondi-Ahman", near Spring Hill, Missouri. (See also D&C 78:15, 107:53-57, HoC 3:35).

B.Where was the Garden of Eden located?

Pearl of Great Price (Moses 3:10-15, corresponding to Joseph Smith's "Inspired" translation of Genesis 2:10-15) says it was located in the vicinity of Assyria and Ethiopia and the Euphrates River.

Comment: Mormons try to explain this by suggesting that those Biblical names were also used in Adam's day to refer to areas and rivers in ancient Missouri. This argument overlooks the fact that the author of Genesis (or the inspired "Book of Moses" - who was the biblical Moses, according to Mormon doctrine) was writing for an audience who knew those names only as designations in the Old World, and would have understood them as such.

A.What materials did Nephi have for building his temple?

Book of Mormon 2 Ne 5:15 says supplies were abundant: "...all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance."

B.What materials did Nephi have for building his temple?

Book of Mormon 2 Ne 5:16 says they were not abundant: "...save it [the temple] were not built of so many precious things, for they were not to be found upon the land."

And why do all the doctrine's that contradic with orthodox Christianity come from the Book of Abraham. and seems to even contradic the Book of Mormon.

A.Heaven consists of three levels or "glories"; evil people go to the lowest, "hell" (D&C 76:81-90), the glory of which "surpasses all understanding. Only Mormon apostates do not go to heaven, but to "outer darkness" (D&C 76:31-39)

B.Only two possible fates after death: heaven or hell. Levels or degrees of heaven are not mentioned.

A.God was once a man like us, and progressed to godhood. (TJS 342-345)

BGod does not change and has never changed. (Mormon 9:9, Moroni 8:18)

A.There are many gods. (TJS 370-373)

B.There is only one God. (Alma 11:28-30)

A.We can become gods ourselves. (D&C 76:58, TJS 342-345)

B.No mention of this idea.

A.We lived with God in a spirit world (a "premortal existence") before being born into this life. (D&C 49:17, 93:23-29, 138:55-56)

B.No mention of this idea.

A.God is the literal father of our spirits, conceived by him and our "Mother in Heaven" (MD 516)

B.No mention of this idea.

A.Mary conceived Jesus by natural means, namely, God the Father impregnated her. (MD 546-47, JoD 1:50-51, 8:115, 11:268)

B.Mary conceived Jesus "by the power of the Holy Ghost" (Alma 7:10), by being "carried away in the spirit" (1 Nephi 11:15-19)

A.Priesthood divided into an upper (" after the order of Melchizedek") and lower ("Aaronic") priesthood

B.No distinction between "priests" and "high priests"; priesthood is "after the order of [the Son of] God" (Alma 4:20, 13:1-12). No mention of "Aaronic" priesthood.

A.Salvation in the highest heaven ("exaltation") requires undergoing the "endowment" initiation ceremony in a temple

B."Secret combinations" requiring secret oaths are condemned. (Mormon 8:27, 40, 2 Nephi 26:22, Helaman 6:22, and many others.) No mention of any such ritual as part of the gospel. No mention of "exaltation" or "endowment."

A.Exaltation requires marriage in a Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4)

B.No mention of this doctrine.

A."Celestial marriage" lasts for time and all eternity. (DoS 2:58 ff)

B.No mention of this doctrine.

A.The "first resurrection" is only for the righteous. (D&C 76:64. 63:18)

B.The "first resurrection" is for all who died before Christ's resurrection, righteous and unrighteous alike (Mosiah 15:24, Alma 40:16-17)

A.Church is governed by the three men of the "First Presidency," higher in authority than the Quorum of Twelve.

B.Jesus placed twelve disciples over the church he founded in America. (3 Nephi 12, passim) No "first presidency" mentioned.

I could be wrong about some of them being conflicts, I do not have a Book of Abraham yet. if they are misquoted (I have not looked all of them up yet) Let me know and I will remove them from my site.

Thank you all

Josh

[Guest ApostleKnight]

This is going to be brief Joshua.

Question #1

Why does the Book of Mormon, seem to contradic with the Doctrine's and Covenants, and The Book of Abraham?

It's the way people read it. It only seems to contradict them. In reality, it doesn't. But you'd have to read them through to really believe me.

A.What is God's attitude toward David and Solomon having more than one wife?

Book of Mormon, Jacob 2:24 says that God considered David's and Solomon's polygamy as "abominable before me." (See also Jacob 1:15, 3:5.)

Simple. Any wives that weren't given to them by prophets of God were abominable in His sight. God says if He wants to raise seed He'll approve multiple wives, but then you probably didn't read all the way from Jacob 2:24 down to Jacob 2:30 which states this. The answer is six verses away...that's why you really need to read the scriptures and not ask us what we think before you do. As for how David and Solomon sinned in having many wives, you'd have to read the D&C to understand why. I'm feeling generous, I'll give you a link to the scripture passage that explains how David and Solomon sinned in having multiple wives. Again, if you're "researching Mormonism" try reading our sacred texts before you indulge in scholarly dissections of them.

And why do all the doctrine's that contradic with orthodox Christianity come from the Book of Abraham. and seems to even contradic the Book of Mormon.

Well Joshua, forgive me for being a broken record but try reading them through and see if you think they contradict each other when taken in context. By the way, the Bible contradicts itself left and right...take Paul's accounts of his vision...does that mean the Bible's a forgery? No need to answer, rhetoric speaks for itself.

I could be wrong about some of them being conflicts, I do not have a Book of Abraham yet. if they are misquoted (I have not looked all of them up yet) Let me know and I will remove them from my site.

Leave whatever you want on your site, just read the scriptures before you go pasting things online that you can't verify! What kind of scientific method or method of inquiry do you employ? And who taught you to do so?

To convict without a trial usually leads to a miscarriage of justice...which is what's happened here. Anyway, it's late and I'm tired. That's all the time I'm going to take responding to your post so you don't have an excuse to say "no Mormons even tried to dialogue with me." Alas, this is all I can spare.

[Dr T]

Hello Josh,

I'm not telling you what to do-just giving my opinion. I for one cannot stand it when people sigh in person and in posts. If you want to have a meaningful conversation, it might help if you use more socially appropriate interpersonal skills. Just a thought...

Dr. T

[Snow]

Where we differ is that I believe nearly all these folk (call them anti, ignorant, or whatever) really think they are trying to help. At the same time, the quick turn to defensive tone, combined with aggressive 'questions,' ... well, it just doesn't help. And then, rather than learning how to engage in good and God-natured dialogue, the tone gets even shriller.

John Mark Karr may really think that he killed Jon Bennet but that doesn't mean that he did.

Yes, some people believe things that aren't really true - like anti's may have actually convinced themselves that attacking the Church of Jesus Christ though dishonesty and inaccuracy is "trying to help" but more likely they are only using that a a cover for their real agenda which is to build up their own self-worth by marginalizing others.

Look at the common tactics and content. Most people understand that the way to convince others is through love, kindness, forthrightness, helpfulness, careful consideration and explantion. No sentient adult believes that the way to help (convert other's to their way of thinking) is through... well take your pick of any of the tactics they critics employ.

...now take this boy; he isn't rude but a quick check of his website shows he is honest or knowledgeable. What he is doing now - see his last post - is avoiding the hassle of having to engage in a legitimate discussion but opting for the shotgun approach. He'll likely continue to avoid having to stand behind anything he throws out.

In short - he has bad intentions. He doesn't need to be treated with consideration - just called on this blather.

*Sigh*

Let me tell you a little about myself, I am now 18 years old, and I was raised in a strong Christian home. When I was about 15 years old, I had to defend my faith to a friend of mine, and I really just couldn't do it. I was also going through I rough period of time in my life that made me question my faith. I began to doubt my religon and wonder if there was even a God. Most of my family and friends are christians, but I can't say that they really researched Christianity, most of them just have "faith" in Christianity. I wish sometimes that I had the same kind of faith as they do...that I could just believe and have no doubts. But I can't. Anyway, I decided to try and prove my faith to myself, I read heavily on the subject, wrote papers, and searched for evidence, I was convinced at last by reading "The Case for Christ" and researching the messianic prophicies. I am now convinced that Jesus is the Messiah. (When I said I won't defend christianity because I'm not done researching it, I meant I don't have sources or references.)

...B.Is there more than one God?

Pearl of Great Price Abraham 4:27 refers to "the Gods" as does D&C 132:37. Orson Pratt's statement is typical of Mormon belief:

If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds. - JoD 2:345

...etc, etc, etc

Hey Plagarism Boy

A. Does Richard Packman know you are stealing his material? (http://home.teleport.com/~packham/contra.htm)

B. Do you think that inherently dishonest plagarism is the best method to convert people to (supposed) truth?

[Guest ApostleKnight]

The following appears at the bottom of the webpage Snow linked to:

© 2003 Richard Packham Permission granted to reproduce for non-commercial purposes, provided text is not changed and this copyright notice is included

I think the text was changed, but regardless, our friend Joshua didn't include the fact that he was stealing someone else's questions when he told us they were "his questions." C'mon Joshua, you're doing everything all wrong.

[LionHeart]

Does anyone remember that Paul1690, or 1980, or something like that; anyway, that boy had the audacity to P.M. me and tell me that it was his God given mission in this life to convince Mormons that they are lost souls and need to return to the true fold.