JoePa has been fired!

[Jenamarie]

Here's the grand jury indictment, if you can stomach a read. Paterno's roll starts on page 6 for "Victim 2"

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

ETA: If the moderators feel this is too explicit to post, then delete it. But this will clear up a lot of the questions being asked in the thread just now.

[beefche]

I read the report. Here's what is interesting to me:

1. Graduate student (who at the time of the incident was 28 years old) alleges he saw an actual sexual act occurring. He never called the police, but told Coach.

2. Under PA law, "when a staff member reports abuse, the person in charge of the school or institution has the responsibility and legal obligation to report or cause such a report to be made by telephone and in writing within 48 hours to the Department of Public Welfare of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania."

3. Coach testified under oath that he reported some fondling or something of a sexual nature occurred.

4. An "investigation" occurred, without Coach, by the AD and Vice President.

5. The Vice President was under legal obligation to report the incident.

6. No incident was ever reported.

7. The Grand Jury said that the AD and VP were not credible in their testimony.

8. No comment by the Grand Jury on the credibility of Coach.

9. The police, after investigating Victim 6, did nothing more than make the guy promise not to shower with boys again.

10. A janitor saw the guy performing a sexual act on Victim 7--was so upset by what he saw that other employees feared he would have a heart attack. He reported it to his immediate supervisor who told him who to report to, if he chose to report it. It was never reported to anyone else.

It is apparent that the AD and VP acted horrifically by not reporting this or even trying to do anything other than telling the guy to not bring in youth onto campus. Horrible, awful, and there is absolutely no excuse for their actions. I don't see that Coach had any reason (from this report) to think that there wasn't a real investigation. I am trying to place myself in his shoes--if I reported what I knew to the VP, I would assume that an investigation was taking place. I would assume that the proper authorities were notified and when I saw the guy again on campus, would assume the authorities deemed the allegation as non-credible.

This raises more questions to me of why didn't the graduate student report his first hand report to the police? I understand he was seriously disturbed by what he saw, but he was 28 years old--why didn't he report it to the Coach and the police? What feel good story did the AD and VP tell themselves so that they didn't report it to the police? Why did the police not do anything after the Victim 1 mother called them? Why did they just make the guy promise not to shower again? How does the campus police director have the authority to tell the county police to close the investigation? Why would this janitor who was so upset by what he saw not call the police?????

This is horrible. Joe Paterno is nothing in this report. There were at least 3 adults who saw acts and did not report it. How is that possible????

[bcguy]

I think what he did was sick. Shame on pen state students for supporting him. What are they thinking!

[HoosierGuy]

I read the report. Here's what is interesting to me:

This raises more questions to me of why didn't the graduate student report his first hand report to the police? .... Why would this janitor who was so upset by what he saw not call the police?????

In a perfect world they both would have reported. But do you think the janitor just might be afraid of losing his job? I heard on TV that the president of the university went to Paterno's home a few years ago (I think a few years ago) and tried to convince him to retire. Paterno threw the president out of his house!

And the graduate student - The guy was probably working hard for his advanced degree. He told a superior. Maybe he didn't want to jeopardize his degree and become involved in such a sick situation. Again, he told someone.

I hope they go after the board of directors or whoever runs the university, plus punish them by shutting down the football team for a good ten years. Punish the criminals and punish the university harshly by shutting the football team down for a decade.

[Connie]

So i'm hearing that they fired Joe, who apparently only had second hand accounts, but the new head coach is a guy who apparently actually saw it happen and did nothing. Is that right? That seems pretty odd and inconsistent.

[beefche]

I don't recognize Bradley's name from the Grand Jury report. He wasn't reported in the grand jury report.

[Connie]

Oh, okay, so i guess the guy i was reading about is not the new head coach. Assistant coach, i guess??

Here's something similar to what i was reading:

Why is Mike McQueary still coaching at PSU? - College Football - Rivals.com

Edit: Okay, found what it was i was reading. Penn State's McQueary Kept off the Sideline by Threats - Yahoo! News

Assitant coach it is.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Connie

[beefche]

Sounds like he was the graduate student (not named in the grand jury report) who witnessed the act and who told Coach Paterno.

[Connie]

Ah, so he was a student at the time and not actually employed by the school. That makes sense.

[beefche]

It's possible he was working for the school at the time (many graduate students work for the school while finishing their degree). It seems, though, that as a key witness, he has some kind of deal with the DA to not lose his job.

[Mahone]

Who?

Glad im not the only one who thought this

[HoosierGuy]

Thinking more about it - I hope everyone involved gets sent to prison over this horrible event and cover up.

[cwald]

... but my understanding is that reporting to his supervisors is the only thing he could have done having not witnessed it himself. If he were to go directly to the police and it turned out to be false, he and the organization could come under fire for defamation.

I believe it works the same way in school systems, ...

This. I think JP did what most employees would do, and just followed the chain of command.

At my school, we are told to always report to the Principle/Supt. and let them handle it from there.

I have a lot of respect for JP, and I feel for the guy. This has to be just sickening to him, to go down like this, after all the good he has done for the youth at that school.

God bless Joe P.

[Leah]

This. I think JP did what most employees would do, and just followed the chain of command.

At my school, we are told to always report to the Principle/Supt. and let them handle it from there.

I have a lot of respect for JP, and I feel for the guy. This has to be just sickening to him, to go down like this, after all the good he has done for the youth at that school.

God bless Joe P.

I don't "feel" for any of those involved in covering this up. And I have no respect for those who just shrug it off by thinking they have done their duty by reporting it to the person above them. The principal and/or Superintendant are not the only mandated reporters in the educational system.

The raping of children was known and known for years. How anyone could think they had done their duty by reporting it to their superior is beyond me. How anyone could witness a 10 year old being raped and not immediately intervening to save the child and also picking up the phone is beyond comprehension.

What "good" has been done by turning a blind eye to the rape of children? Football is more important? Having a winning team trumps raping children?

No one involved in the crimes OR the cover-up deserves anyone's respect.

Edited to add: I wonder how those who support/excuse the cover-up would feel if it were their child being raped? As long as someone reported it to their boss, everything would be cool, then? It would be okay that no one actually did anything?

Edited November 12, 2011 by Leah

[slamjet]

I have a lot of respect for JP, and I feel for the guy. This has to be just sickening to him, to go down like this, after all the good he has done for the youth at that school.

God bless Joe P.

As far as it throws his legacy out the windows. His actions of late have only shown he's thinking about his own self and not much else. He dared the trustees to fire him when he announced his retirement at the end of the season and told them to not spend another minute thinking about what to do with him.

He's just another person who's hubris caught up with him.

[cwald]

I don't "feel" for any of those involved in covering this up. And I have no respect for those who just shrug it off by thinking they have done their duty by reporting it to the person above them. The principal and/or Superintendant are not the only mandated reporters in the educational system.

The raping of children was known and known for years. How anyone could think they had done their duty by reporting it to their superior is beyond me. How anyone could witness a 10 year old being raped and not immediately intervening to save the child and also picking up the phone is beyond comprehension.

What "good" has been done by turning a blind eye to the rape of children? Football is more important? Having a winning team trumps raping children?

No one involved in the crimes OR the cover-up deserves anyone's respect.

Okay, like I have been told over and over this month, don't make claims of truth that simply are not true. Coach P did not "witness" a raping of a child. So don't say he did. If he had, than there would be no discussion or argument. But that is not what happened. he heard about an incident second hand, and reported what he knew to his supervisor, which is what most of us are trained to do.

[Leah]

Okay, like I have been told over and over this month, don't make claims of truth that simply are not true. Coach P did not "witness" a raping of a child. So don't say he did. If he had, than there would be no discussion or argument. But that is not what happened. he heard about an incident second hand, and reported what he knew to his supervisor, which is what most of us are trained to do.

Please don't purposely misconstrue what I wrote. I never wrote that Paterno was an actual witness. Don't chastise me for saying something that I did not say. I was not referring to Paterno when I wrote of witnesses. There was at least one witness to a specific incident of a ten-year old being raped, but I never wrote that Paterno was the witness. Don't twist my words to fit your agenda.

But Paterno was still very much in the wrong. I don't know who the "most of us" are that you seem to think are "trained" to turn a blind eye to child rape. I find it horrifying and disgusting that you live in such a world (and seem to be okay with it). Apparently the people in that world are unable to think for themselves or take action without their boss's okay. Anyone who is witness to children being raped or has information regarding it should be picking up the phone and calling the police. Believe it or not, you don't need your supervisor's permission to do the right thing.

[cwald]

Please don't purposely misconstrue what I wrote. I never wrote that Paterno was an actual witness. Don't chastise me for saying something that I did not say. I was not referring to Paterno when I wrote of witnesses. There was at least one witness to a specific incident of a ten-year old being raped, but I never wrote that Paterno was the witness. Don't twist my words to fit your agenda.

But Paterno was still very much in the wrong. I don't know who the "most of us" are that you seem to think are "trained" to turn a blind eye to child rape. I find it horrifying and disgusting that you live in such a world (and seem to be okay with it). Apparently the people in that world are unable to think for themselves or take action without their boss's okay. Anyone who is witness to children being raped or has information regarding it should be picking up the phone and calling the police. Believe it or not, you don't need your supervisor's permission to do the right thing.

Yeah, but this entire thread is about JP, is it not? Castigate those who witnessed the rape, not the guy who heard about it second hand.

And for the record --- don't twist my words either. It goes both ways. You obviously didn't respect my opinion. Okay, but don't get all pissed off if i don't agree with yours.

[slamjet]

I'm still trying to figure out where words were twisted and opinions were not respected.

JP was told plenty of details to warrant a healthy suspicion. Instead he chose to pass the buck and not bother with it. He was the direct supervisor of this person. His role cannot be minimized because he was "only told." He was told enough. Read over the grand jury testimony, especially the part about victim 2. It's very disturbing what he decided to dismiss.

[cwald]

I'm still trying to figure out where words were twisted ...

Yeah, me too. If you figure it out let me know.

Okay, I will be very diplomatic and just say that I have respect for JP, and I don't believe he deserves the lynching that he his getting. That is just my opinion.

[Leah]

Yeah, but this entire thread is about JP, is it not? Castigate those who witnessed the rape, not the guy who heard about it second hand.

And for the record --- don't twist my words either. It goes both ways. You obviously didn't respect my opinion. Okay, but don't get all pissed off if i don't agree with yours.

So...you've become a moderator and can put limits on posts?

I will "castigate" whomever I choose. Joe Paterno was far more than "the guy who heard about it second hand". Just because you believe it is okay for those who have information about years of ongoing child rape to be complicit in covering it up, doesn't mean we all have to agree with you.

I didn't twist any words of yours. But you do have quite the habit here already of being aggressive with those who disagree with you...or even those who are simply asking for clarification of opinions you post. You seem to take great issue with anyone who doesn't agree with you.

No, I do not respect your opinion in this instance. Joe Paterno does not deserve our respect in this situation. I will not respect anyone who puts his career ahead of the safety of young children. Do you think he will be "respected" on Judgement Day for having turned a blind eye and deaf ear to the ongoing abuse of children? That is my opinion because I believe the safety of children is more important than any sport.

I am not "pissed off" at you. You give yourself too much credit.

[Leah]

Yeah, me too. If you figure it out let me know.

Okay, I will be very diplomatic and just say that I have respect for JP, and I don't believe he deserves the lynching that he his getting. That is just my opinion.

I will never understand having 'respect' for someone who turns his back on children being raped. I don't see how that is behaviour that is to be respected.

That is just my opinion.

[Echo2002]

I think everyone in the chain of command should be fired. I don't see how any human being can see something like that and not try to stop it. I don't think I would care if I got fired.

[bytor2112]

How....does one witness a 10 year old boy being raped by an adult and not immediately come to the aid of the boy being violated? I.E.....by any means necessary! Talking about a coward. McQueery defined it.

[Carl62]

I really don't like the poll, that's for sure. He DID do the bare minimum. But "burn the devil!" seems like it doesn't fit, either.

I don't like this idiotic poll either and I have know idea how it ended up on my thread! I asked a moderator about removing it but nothing happened. Why?