Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 OH! I GET IT! IT IS A PILL! Take a CHILL PILL! That took me a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>i admit that there is a lot of evil out there in the world, but do you think if Christ was in church, he would dislike a person more for having more than one earing or for wearing a tank top or even if they had a tattoo?Jesus loves everyone equilly. We have never taught any different. He even loves the skanks... but that does not mean you should be one. Don't judge people so harshly. We don't judge people. :)OMG, this is so funny! You just stated that you don't judge people after you called someone who has a tattoo and tank top a skank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>i admit that there is a lot of evil out there in the world, but do you think if Christ was in church, he would dislike a person more for having more than one earing or for wearing a tank top or even if they had a tattoo?Jesus loves everyone equilly. We have never taught any different. He even loves the skanks... but that does not mean you should be one. Don't judge people so harshly. We don't judge people. :)OMG, this is so funny! You just stated that you don't judge people after you called someone who has a tattoo and tank top a skank!Why would I call someone with a tatoo a skank... and I wasn't referring to the tank top.Okay... I judge the way people dress today.You have to admit, girls do advertise a lot...unless you do to, in wich case, you probably take an oppisite stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Just out of respect. If you can get sunday wear, please wear it to church.And if they cannot..... are you going to ask them about it..... or just judge them?That is for the people who are already members, and have no tatoos. Modesty is important.What does modesty have to do with tattooo's?You mean, strongly encouraged you don't do...No, actually judging your reaction I'd say "bad" and "judgemental" fits rather well.Where do you live that the LDS church there doesn't focus on God and Jesus? Our church is ALL ABOUT being like them. You are focusing on a problem of the church, and ignoring everything about God and Jesus, because you are blinded with problems dressing modestly. I am hardly blinded, but you seem to be a lot like what you are complaining about. On the otherhand..... you must be pretty special being perfect and all. I bet you draw a LOT of converts what with you being better than everybody else.Jesus loves everyone equilly. We have never taught any different. He even loves the skanks... but that does not mean you should be one.I was just wondering when you became the all powerful person who was given the ability to define "skanks"? I also wonder if you understand you are considered worse than a skank in other religions?We don't judge people.Unless we call them "skanks".So I can go out and beak the law of chastity, but as long as I believe in him.. I am saved. I can kill a few people to!!!!Sure, why not? You seem to have no issues with being verbally cruel.... why not take the next step.No one has ever regretted keeping the commandments, and that is not as easy as, "Ya Jesus.. I know your there. Now I am saved. LDS does not believe salvation is that easy.From your example it would appear the LDS believe in calling those who are not like them.... "skanks".It isn't about what you can and can not do!It is about prophets and Jesus' restored church and being sealed to your family for all time and eturnity!If that isn't for you, I am very sorry to hear that.Desire - I am the parent of an eleven year old. If you are the barameter of what it means to be a LDS teen then I would lead my child away from what you hold as a faith. Because frankly, you are a pharasee in training. I couldn't imagine anybody living up to your obviously perfect standards. FWIW..... I am suspecting Desire is a poser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 EDIT: Took the post out. Replaced: I feel like I am being attacked and judged in return... and half of the things you responded with either didn't make sense to what I actually ment (And that may be my fault), and I am sorry if you thought I posted somewhere that I was perfect... which I never thought, or posted, and I am sorry if my willingness to follow the standards came off as such. I would love to talk to you more about this, but in a manner that is not as degrading as yours felt to me..... Ben.. I am sorry about my before post.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 While personal opinions are welcome here personal attacks are not. Please refrain from personal attacks and rebuttals. If you would like to continue this line of conversation do it in personal messages. If you can't your accounts may be suspended. Best regards, Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 I am very sorry Ben.. I felt like I was being attacked and had to say something... I wont respond here anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 The thread is "Who is it really that converts out of a religion?" Response to that thread is totally acceptable. Per the rules of LDSTalk personal attacks are not acceptable. Thank you for taking that in to consideration. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Ben.. I edited it... is it better? If it still isn't, I will change it again... I don't think I will sleep until I know though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Looks good to me. I remind all to stay on track in the forums and to avoid personal attacks. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 I'm sorry, I am not sure whom you (specifically) were responding too that Ben brought up, Des. Can you start putting recipients names on your posts (unless it's general). Thank you, Dr. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 It doesn't really matter.... they know, and I don't feel like arguing with them. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutelilchikin Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 I was simply trying to ask a question. I'm not trying to convert to the LDS church. I've been a member for over 10 years and it seems like a lot of the church meetings from young womens and up criticize people who have tattoos and piercings as "bad". they make it seem like they aren't equal to the members who dont' have that. My point was, why would you criticize someone's appearance when the important thing is their faith and belief in God and Jesus. Isn't that what religion is about. Faith and belief? Not in the way you dress. And I believe the churches who are saying, "come as you are" are saying that they wont judge you based on your appearance. they want you to come and have faith in Jesus. I believe I asked Ray the question Desire, and I really wanted to know what his answer was because he is a convert and he is the one who made those comments that brought my question. I lived in Southern Utah from the time I was seven until I was 20. One time I went in for a Birthday interview and I was wearing a tank top. This shirt was not overly revealing. It was just a sleeveless shirt. It showed my SHOULDERS and that's it. But the Bishop spent most of the time I was in his office telling me that I was gonna end up falling off the deep end. And to point out something, I still wear sleeveless shirts, and I have not fallen off the deep end. I am questioning the beliefs of the church which the SCRIPTURES tell me to do. And even if I come to the conclusion that the LDS church is not for me, it will not make me a bad person. Even if I did fall off the deep end, I would not be a bad person. hate the sins, not the sinner. I may make some bad choices, but who are you to judge me and say that I don't have faith and that I'm not an equal person in the eyes of God? What if that "skank" as you put it, has a reason for the way she is. What if she has never been taught about the law of chastity? I never said you could go kill someone. That is breaking the commandments and if you read what i wrote, I said "God doesn't care what you look like, who you are, where you come from, as long as you believe in Him and His Son with all your heart and you're not out there breaking the commandments." My problems I've had with the church isn't what you can and can't do. It's the fact that some members make it seem like if you do some of that stuff, you're going straight to hell. And they focus on that. They judge people by their appearance and by their sins. Their sins are between them and God and the church members have no right making them feel like they don't belong at church because they've made mistakes. When Joseph Smith brought about the church, he did not judge people by their appearance. Or even by the sins they've commited. I don't care how many people a person has slept with, if they're trying to change your ways, who are we to judge if they are good or not? Sinning does not make a person bad, it just means they've made some bad decisions. That is probably going to be the reason I will convert to out of the LDS church. Yes, I still believe what I was taught by the missionaries, but I don't see the point in going to church every week when they focus on stuff that doesn't change a person's faith or their beliefs and will not matter in the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyando Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Messianic Jews find most of their adherents from secular Jews. The Orthodox are too engrained with the belief that to worship Jesus is idolatry, and worse than atheism.My guess is that most who convert, be it to Mormonism or out of Mormonism, are those who are either inactive, who are disgruntled, or who are going through a crisis for which their faith is somehow inadequate.Anybody have a couple pennies to throw at my thoughts?Put me down is the crisis catagory. I was baptised at thirteen and at that time I believed, but didn't become converted until I went through the refiner's fire, a couple of time's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dorsey Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 I said "God doesn't care what you look like, who you are, where you come from, as long as you believe in Him and His Son with all your heart and you're not out there breaking the commandments." My problems I've had with the church isn't what you can and can't do. It's the fact that some members make it seem like if you do some of that stuff, you're going straight to hell. And they focus on that. They judge people by their appearance and by their sins. Their sins are between them and God and the church members have no right making them feel like they don't belong at church because they've made mistakes.chiKin....ever wonder why we are called Saints? A Saint is someone who is trying to perfect themselves in the eyes of the Lord...one who is trying to be perfect, with the key word on trying....no one in the church is perfect, we all struggle with trying to change to be what the Lord wants...to some the struggle comes easy and others it seems unsurmountable....the bottom line is we are trying. Amid the struggle to perfect ourselves we will be amoungst other members who are also trying...are they perfect? No. Are you perfect? No. Will they make mistakes? Yes. Will you? Yes. Unfortunately there are those who will judge your appearance and past...they are struggling with thier own problem of perfection. Yes, they are wrong to do that, they are weak. But you need to stay strong and, yes, forgive them. Just remember one very important thing...this is the Lords church, the Lord is perfect but the ones who follow him are not...open your heart and forgive those who've hurt you as the Lord would.When Joseph Smith brought about the church, he did not judge people by their appearance. Or even by the sins they've commited. I don't care how many people a person has slept with, if they're trying to change your ways, who are we to judge if they are good or not? Sinning does not make a person bad, it just means they've made some bad decisions. Absolutely...I agree! It's all about Faith, Repentance and forgiveness...and it's all between you and the Lord. I think you need to understand something...I will tell you my story. 3 years ago a General Authority was speaking at our Stake Conference, he was relating a story about when he was taking to President Hinkley and the Prophet made the comment "Wouldn't it be nice of all the Priesthood holders of the church were clean shaven?", The General Authority then said that if the Prophet of God thought it would be nice then we should think about honoring that. Well, you would not believe what happened....next Sunday every Priesthood holder in my ward shaved clean before church, including myself (I've had a mustache for 22 years) We didn't have a meeting to discuss this, we all felt prompted and did it on our own....Why whould we do that? Because we sustain President Hinkley as a Prophet of God. If he says members of the church should dress modestly, no more than one earring in the ears, no tattoos etc. then it should be done, without question, it should be done. There will be some who will refuse to do these things the Lord has asked and that is something that is between them and the Lord. Think about the Word of Wisdon....Did the People in 1835 know the dangers of tobbacco, alchol and coffee back then? No, but the Lord did! I agree, the Lord really doesn't care about your apperance, he loves us regardless....however, if he askes us to do something do we have the faith to listen to his direction even if we don't know why he's asking? If the norm in society is to have a tattoo, drink beer, smoke, wear revealing clothing, pierce our bodies and enjoy pornography...then the abnormal is to whorship a loving God who knows what's best for us...I for one will follow the Lord and I will forgive those hypocrits who murmur......my salvation depends on it.That is probably going to be the reason I will convert to out of the LDS church. Yes, I still believe what I was taught by the missionaries, but I don't see the point in going to church every week when they focus on stuff that doesn't change a person's faith or their beliefs and will not matter in the big picture.chiKins....but that's just it...following the directiuon the Lord sets for us does build faith and testimony because with obedience comes blessings and gifts to increase our faith. Oh, it so does matter in the big picture. The big picture is your salvation! The joy you will feel when you listen and live by the Lords commands with astound you....your testimony will increase ten fold. It sounds as though you are struggling with being asked to live buy the standards of the church, the standards the Lord has set for the Saints. Search your heart, you say you still believe what the missionaries taught you...do you still believe Joseph Smill saw God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ in the Grove? Do you still believe the Book of Mormon is real? Do you believe that Gordon B. Hinkley is a Prophet of God and recieves direct revelation from the Lord to direct his church upon the Earth? If you do, then forgive those other members who have wronged you, asked the Lord for guidence and live by the Lords standard. He lives and he loves you more than you could ever know. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MrsS Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Beautifully said Brother Dorsey! I really felt the Spirit in your words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Strangely enough...I have to agree with Brother Dorsey,chiKin....ever wonder why we are called Saints? A Saint is someone who is trying to perfect themselves in the eyes of the Lord...one who is trying to be perfect, with the key word on trying....no one in the church is perfect, we all struggle with trying to change to be what the Lord wants...Absolutely...I agree! It's all about Faith, Repentance and forgiveness...and it's all between you and the Lord...The joy you will feel when you listen and live by the Lords commands with astound you....your testimony will increase ten fold. It sounds as though you are struggling with being asked to live buy the standards of the church, the standards the Lord has set for the Saints.Like Brother Dorsey said, we (christians) try to live as best we can...but no one is perfect! we have all sinned! and as James said "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10of course you should try and keep all the commands but no one is perfect. It's all about grace.Search your heart, you say you still believe what the missionaries taught you...do you still believe Joseph Smill saw God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ in the Grove? Do you still believe the Book of Mormon is real? Do you believe that Gordon B. Hinkley is a Prophet of God and recieves direct revelation from the Lord to direct his church upon the Earth? If you do, then forgive those other members who have wronged you, asked the Lord for guidence and live by the Lords standard. He lives and he loves you more than you could ever know. Good Luck!Again, If you agree that "Joseph Smith saw God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ in the Grove and the Book of Mormon is real, if you believe that Gordon B. Hinkley is a Prophet of God and recieves direct revelation from the Lord to direct his church upon the Earth.Then you shouldn't leave your faith. Or stop trying to do God's will...Of course I personally don't see that you need to go to church, if it makes you that uncomoftable...stay home and read your Bible.Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Of course I personally don't see that you need to go to church, if it makes you that uncomoftable...stay home and read your Bible. Spiritual experiances can happen at church when a truth is declared. It helps testimony when you feel the spirit.I am surprised at some of what you said, about Joseph Smith and Gordon B. Hinkly.... even though you don't believe in them, it seemed special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>Of course I personally don't see that you need to go to church, if it makes you that uncomoftable...stay home and read your Bible. Spiritual experiances can happen at church when a truth is declared. It helps testimony when you feel the spirit.I'm not saying you shouldn't go to church....just that you don't have to.Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Of course I personally don't see that you need to go to church, if it makes you that uncomoftable...stay home and read your Bible. Spiritual experiances can happen at church when a truth is declared. It helps testimony when you feel the spirit.I'm not saying you shouldn't go to church....just that you don't have to.Josh B)Not unless you want to be strong in your faith and testimony and stay active... If you want to stay active though, you do have to.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Not unless you want to be strong in your faith and testimony and stay active... If you want to stay active though, you do have to..I guess I don't think "staying active" in the church is a need, as for being strong in your faith, how about Abraham? Was he "active" in the church?Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Not unless you want to be strong in your faith and testimony and stay active... If you want to stay active though, you do have to..I guess I don't think "staying active" in the church is a need, as for being strong in your faith, how about Abraham? Was he "active" in the church?Josh B)He was a prophet. Did he need to be? Was there one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>Not unless you want to be strong in your faith and testimony and stay active... If you want to stay active though, you do have to..I guess I don't think "staying active" in the church is a need, as for being strong in your faith, how about Abraham? Was he "active" in the church?Josh B)He was a prophet. Did he need to be? Was there one?#1 what did Abraham prophecy? What would make you think he was a "prophet"#2 I would say no....Mormons would say yes (I think)#3 No...there wasn't one. God did not set up a temple untill Moses....Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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