maiku Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm having a hard time finding a written statement or something I can show to a couple of mothers in my branch that angels don't have wings. There is a Primary show next week and a couple of mothers wanted to put wings on their children who were playing angels. Does something have a passage or a quote with this? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 "Do angels really have wings? No, of course not. Wings on angels are symbolic of their ability to go wherever God sends them and of their ability to do whatever they are required, even things that would be impossible for mortals. Angels don't have wings any more than they have feathers. But does it hurt to put paper wings on Primary children dressed as angels? No, probably not. There are probably more important things to worry about. Primary presidents are great for figuring out such things."- Vort, Lds.net, 1 December 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 From the Bible Dictionary: Latter-day revelation contains much about the nature, ministry, and identification of angels. See 2 Ne. 32:2–3; Alma 12:28–29; 13:24–26; Moro. 7:29–31; D&C 7:6–7; 13; 37; 76:21; 110:11–16; 128:21; 129; 132:16–18. Angels do not have wings (HC 3:392). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayanna Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Angles do not have wings, HC 3:392 sorry, no link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks Vort. Children do love wings, and halos too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Thing about angels is that if you want to paint angels with people how do you tell them apart without the wings? If you do a play with angels dont the angels blend in with everyone else and its hard to know whos an angel and whos not? If I put an angel on my christmas tree isnt it going to look like someone is just standing on my tree if it has nothing to show that its an angel? Just trying to point out that the wings serve a purpose even though we know they dont really have wings. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennarator Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 How about you suggest an oversized flowing robe type thing? I did that last year for my daughter and she looked great. Basicly made and oversized pillow case, tied it with a gold rope, let it hang on the side, and a gold "halo" tied around her head. I think halos are ok, just because that could be like the olden days when like the Nephites and such have things tied around thier heads, but since the are spiritual, they are gold. :) I don't do the floating halo thing, tho I don't see any harm. I just think the wings are wrong, since we are made after the form of Heavenly Father, and we dont have wings, so why would angels? Again, just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 My husband is adamantly against the wings as well. He is of the opinion that they are just stupid. I believe they are innocuous provided the children understand that they are not real any more than santa claus is real. Make believe and fantasy can just be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescueMom Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Balrogs don't have wings either.... just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Balrogs don't have wings either.... just sayin' and since they are fictional they dont have tol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm having a hard time finding a written statement or something I can show to a couple of mothers in my branch that angels don't have wings.I've always answered this by asking for scriptures that say they do have wings.When people don't know why they believe what they believe, urging them to go fix themselves is a better use of time than sourcing every little detail of why I believe differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Okay, Catholics put wings on their angels because in Catholic belief, Angels are a different ousia (or "nature" or "substance" or "favorite-word-to-use-instead-of-ousia") as humans. There's God, there's us, then there's angels. Three different groups of... whatever they are. So, as long as your children don't begin to think wings symbolize a different ousia then you're good to go. Hey, Jesus Christ was probably not white, but who cares if they're always portraying him as caucasian? Come to think of it... why do we put our hands behind our heads to sign "Lamanites" in the Book of Mormon Stories song to indicate Native American? Aren't they Native Israelites? Yeah, confusion, confusion... the awesome thing is... it really does not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Why do we put our hands behind our heads to signify Lamanites? I know my kids are older but I dont remember that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Why do we put our hands behind our heads to signify Lamanites? I know my kids are older but I dont remember that part.When the kids sing.. "Are about the Lamanites in ancient history..."... they make a V with their fingers (like the peace sign) and put it behind their heads and then put their other hand palm out infront of them... My understanding is, this is the universal sign for Native American (or Indians if you want to be more direct) because they usually wear a headband of feathers (the fingers symbolize feathers) and hold a spear infront of them. Don't ask me why they do that... I was called as Primary Song Leader last year. Interesting calling since I'm a convert and has never been to Primary and can count the songs that I know out of the Children's Songbook with the fingers of one hand. Edited December 2, 2011 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daybreak79 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 But I thought every time I heard a bell ring an Angel got it's wings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 But I thought every time I heard a bell ring an Angel got it's wings... Actor's motto:"Every time a line gets flubbed, somewhere a baby seal gets clubbed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Actually, every time you email yourself a file so you can pull it up on a friend's laptop, Tim Berners-lee sheds a single tear.Source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) When the kids sing.. "Are about the Lamanites in ancient history..."... they make a V with their fingers (like the peace sign) and put it behind their heads and then put their other hand palm out infront of them... My understanding is, this is the universal sign for Native American (or Indians if you want to be more direct) because they usually wear a headband of feathers (the fingers symbolize feathers) and hold a spear infront of them. Don't ask me why they do that... I was called as Primary Song Leader last year. Interesting calling since I'm a convert and has never been to Primary and can count the songs that I know out of the Children's Songbook with the fingers of one hand.Actually I suspect the arm extended palm out depiction is supposed to be reminiscent of the whole 'how' greeting sterotype. A visual example: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2008/06/davidhowemotors_2007_4374248.jpeg. There is even a youtube clip Michael from Disney's Peter pan doing it, that has both elements perfectly. The feathers (in this case one) and the arm extended with the palm out. Linky: Edited December 2, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I've always answered this by asking for scriptures that say they do have wings.Isaiah 6 1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. Exodus 25 18And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. 19And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 20And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Doe we necessarily interrupt cherubim and seraphim to be angels? Are those verses to be taken literally or is symbolism involved? Aren't seraphim described to have 4 faces of various beasts. 6 wings that cover their body with eyes all over the wings? (definitely not the modern day take on angels) I've had these described to me as being symbolic rather than actual physical descriptions. Even by mainstream Christians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 The point is that they are scriptures that say that angels have wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 The point is that they are scriptures that say that angels have wings.My point is, are the words seraphim and cherubim interrupted to angels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 My point is, are the words seraphim and cherubim interrupted to angels?You mean "interpreted"? Yes, they are angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Yeah playing with my son and typing at the same time didn't work out to well. I'm genuinely curious if there are other prevalent interpretations out there, especially non-lds. I faintly recall reading somewhere (obviously this was just someones opinion) about there being other divine beings than ministering angels etc... I'm trying to recollect if it was an lds source or non-lds source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Doe we necessarily interrupt cherubim and seraphim to be angels?What, then, if not angels?Malach, the word translated as angel, is a role, not a being. The role is that of a messenger. If we are talking about special beings, then cherubim and seraphim definitely count.Are those verses to be taken literally or is symbolism involved?Taking the "symbolic" approach is fine, as long as you are willing to concede that it could also be applied to such things as descriptions of God as a man.Aren't seraphim described to have 4 faces of various beasts.You are thinking of the creatures in Ezekiel's vision. The Book of Revelation amalgamates them with seraphim.6 wings that cover their bodySix wings that can be used for covering their body.with eyes all over the wings?In Isaiah 6, no. In Revelation 4, yes. (definitely not the modern day take on angels) I've had these described to me as being symbolic rather than actual physical descriptions. Even by mainstream Christians.Doesn't matter if it is the modern take on angels or not, Loudmouth asked for a scripture showing that angels have wings.If the Holy of Holies can have a depiction of winged angels, then why not a primary play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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