Coffee And The Word Of Wisdom

[Princess3dward]

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Was that written by a church member?

B.H. Roberts I believe.....

Josh B)

I will figure this out and let you know!

I suppose that means I need to pray and read your posts again after I get more than 4 hours sleep.

Ok...I need some sleep myself...goodnight :)

BTW between you and me we had about 50% of the posts on this board.

Ya. I talk alot.

[JoshuaFKon]

I almost had as many as you...(I was winning earlier today)

[lisajo]

would you two just kiss and get it over with

i love coffee, and yes i drink it every once in a while i guess i am a sinner LOL

[Dr T]

Lisajo,

You really do crack me up!

[LionHeart]

I know you won't like this...but I heard JS didn't follow the Word of Wisdom,

Is it a "command" or just "a good idea"?

Josh B)

D&C 89: 2: To be sent greeting; NOT BY COMMANDMENT or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days.

Wine was not forbidden by the WoW, it was classified as a substance for the cleansing of the body. It was also okay to use it for the sacrament; providing it was of your own making. However, it does not say anything about ingredients used in any drinks, it merely says "hot drinks are not for the body or belly." This is where my question comes in. Where did this interpretation come from regarding hot cocoa being okay and not coffee?

And like was mentioned before, Joseph Smith did indulge in a hot cup of coffee or a glass of wine every now and again.

L.H.

[JoshuaFKon]

would you two just kiss and get it over with

i love coffee, and yes i drink it every once in a while i guess i am a sinner LOL

I guess I'm a better mormon than you then! I never drink coffee!

(although I do have an cup of tea once in a while :) )

Josh B)

[JoshuaFKon]

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I know you won't like this...but I heard JS didn't follow the Word of Wisdom,

Is it a "command" or just "a good idea"?

Josh B)

D&C 89: 2: To be sent greeting; NOT BY COMMANDMENT or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days.

Wine was not forbidden by the WoW, it was classified as a substance for the cleansing of the body. It was also okay to use it for the sacrament; providing it was of your own making. However, it does not say anything about ingredients used in any drinks, it merely says "hot drinks are not for the body or belly." This is where my question comes in. Where did this interpretation come from regarding hot cocoa being okay and not coffee?

And like was mentioned before, Joseph Smith did indulge in a hot cup of coffee or a glass of wine every now and again.

L.H.

Thank you, L.H. :)

I have a question, it also seems to say you should only eat meat in the winter? is that a practice of the LDS?

Also I thought I'd quote what Wikipedia says about it:

After Smith's death, the Latter Day Saint movement split into several factions. The largest of those groups, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was led by Brigham Young. Young proposed in September 9, 1851 at a General Conference of this denomination that the revelation be adopted as a binding commandment for all Latter-day Saints. Today, adherence to the Word of Wisdom is required for baptism or to receive a Temple Recommend, which allows entry into temples of the LDS Church.

There are other ways in which the interpretation of the Word of Wisdom has evolved throughout the years. The most significant innovation was the shift in emphasis away from the specific substances listed in the revelation, and toward a more general prohibition against habit-forming substances. In particular, influenced by the temperance movement in late 19th century America, the church prohibited all alcoholic beverages, including "mild drinks" such as beer, which was allowed in Smith's revelation. In addition, the church came to prohibit the use of wine, even as part of the Sacrament. Water is now used in its place. Most recently, the church has prohibited the use of narcotics. However, the church generally regards narcotics, or any other medically-useful substance, as acceptable if used as prescribed by a doctor.

In addition, the part of the code that forbids "hot drinks" has been officially interpreted as prohibiting only coffee and tea, whether or not the drinks are hot. There is no prohibition, however, against herbal tea, or hot chocolate.

The Word of Wisdom states that meat should be eaten "only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine". While a minority of church members adhere to this teaching, most do not. There have been very few comments made on this subject by church leaders. Meat is served frequently at the church-operated Missionary Training Centers, regardless of season, temperature, or availability of other foods.

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Ambiguous areas within the Word of Wisdom

While there is a general prohibition against habit-forming substances, certain areas within the Word of Wisdom are not clearly defined and are generally amenable to one's conscience.

Of particular note is the permissibility of consuming products which contain caffeine but are not coffee or tea (i.e. soft drinks), which is a longstanding issue among Latter-day Saints. The Church has no official stance on the consumption of caffeinated beverages and the consumption of such does not constitute breaking the Word of Wisdom. Because of the statements of various Church leaders, which are not official statements nor practices of the Church, some adherents believe that caffeine is officially prohibited under the Word of Wisdom. If this were so, it would seem logical that other products which contain caffeine would be prohibited as well. Some members who hold that caffeinated soft drinks are prohibited distinguish between foods with naturally occurring caffeine and those in which caffeine is an additive. Interestingly, caffeinated drinks are not sold on the campus of Church-sponsored Brigham Young University.

Speculation also exists concerning the use of alcohol as a cooking ingredient or the use of decaffeinated coffee or tea. The Church has taken no official stance on either.

[lisajo]

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would you two just kiss and get it over with

i love coffee, and yes i drink it every once in a while i guess i am a sinner LOL

I guess I'm a better mormon than you then! I never drink coffee!

(although I do have an cup of tea once in a while :) )

Josh B)

AH don't you have to be a Mormon to be better than me? and tea well gotcha there it's as bad as me having coffee now and then

PS No one is better than LisaJo she the All mighty Queen LOL

[Maureen]

...However, it does not say anything about ingredients used in any drinks...

Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain. (D&C 89:17)

Verse 17 mentions barley for use...for mild drinks, as in beer. So they were allowed to drink beer but not something stronger like whiskey.

...Where did this interpretation come from regarding hot cocoa being okay and not coffee?

I can only speculate that coffee and tea were very common drinks in the 19th century, while hot chocolate was probably more of a treat and not easily available for consumption. It was probably more accessible in the 20th century and since not part of the common "hot drinks" was never considered against the WofW.

...i love coffee, and yes i drink it every once in a while i guess i am a sinner LOL

Good for you lisajo! Your colon will probably thank you in years to come, and while all your elderly relatives are succumbing to type 2 diabetes, you'll be happily skipping along, healthy as can be. Keep up the good work!

M.

[lisajo]

Good for you lisajo! Your colon will probably thank you in years to come, and while all your elderly relatives are succumbing to type 2 diabetes, you'll be happily skipping along, healthy as can be. Keep up the good work!

M.

Wow M, I do come from a family with many diabetics, (i mean alot too)

Hummm out of 6 kids i am the only one with out a seriouse blood sugar problem

[Princess3dward]

All I know is I just had an interview for the youth temple trip, and that is a requirement for me to go....

[JoshuaFKon]

All I know is I just had an interview for the youth temple trip, and that is a requirement for me to go....

Did you look it up in the Church History?

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

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All I know is I just had an interview for the youth temple trip, and that is a requirement for me to go....

Did you look it up in the Church History?

Josh B)

I can't. My grandpa has those,

and he lives a little far.

I will look it up when I have the chance though,

although that does not waver what I know about the word of wisdom in the slightest.

[Outshined]

I can't. My grandpa has those,

and he lives a little far.

I will look it up when I have the chance though,

although that does not waver what I know about the word of wisdom in the slightest.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/h..._of_wisdom.html

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai139.html

[Guest MrsS]

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...However, it does not say anything about ingredients used in any drinks...

Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain. (D&C 89:17)

Verse 17 mentions barley for use...for mild drinks, as in beer. So they were allowed to drink beer but not something stronger like whiskey. No Maureen, they were not allowed to drink beer. Alcohol is alcohol. I drink Pero See Here , it is malted barley, chicory, and rye. That is what is meant by mild drink. Tastes pretty good too, it is great Iced also.

M.

[Maureen]

No Maureen, they were not allowed to drink beer. Alcohol is alcohol. I drink Pero See Here , it is malted barley, chicory, and rye. That is what is meant by mild drink. Tastes pretty good too, it is great Iced also.

From a 19th century perspective I'm going to disagree with you MrsS. I will say though, that it is obvious the following of the WofW by members has changed throughout time.

...The revelation also encouraged the use of grains, particularly wheat. Barley was also encouraged for use in making "mild drinks"...

...contemporary records indicate that Joseph Smith, Jr. was not, himself, a strict observer. Smith is recorded at various times as drinking tea[4] and wine,[5] and smoking tobacco.[6]...

...There are other ways in which the interpretation of the Word of Wisdom has evolved throughout the years. The most significant innovation was the shift in emphasis away from the specific substances listed in the revelation, and toward a more general prohibition against habit-forming substances. In particular, influenced by the temperance movement in late 19th century America, the church prohibited all alcoholic beverages, including "mild drinks" such as beer, which was allowed in Smith's revelation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Wisdom

M.

[Brother Dorsey]

...contemporary records indicate that Joseph Smith, Jr. was not, himself, a strict observer. Smith is recorded at various times as drinking tea[4] and wine,[5] and smoking tobacco.[6]...

M.

Yes but.....Joseph Smith was only human....and all humans make mistakes, Just look at the mistakes Moses made, or the other Prophets of old....Heck, even I have broken the WoW a few times in my life and I am almost perfect....LOL!

Who new that tobacco was bad for you back in 1833? Who knew in 1833 that the consumption of alcohol would become the worlds largest drug problem?....God knew!! Besides, what can be so wrong with something that is good for you? If the Word of Wisdom is good for you then it is from God!

Health studies regarding Latter-day Saints

A 14-year selective study conducted by UCLA epidemiologist James E. Enstrom tracked the health of 10,000 moderately active LDS people in California, ending in 1987. Of these non-smoking, monogamous non-drinkers, Enstrom concluded from the study "that LDS Church members who follow religious mandates barring smoking and drinking have one of the lowest death rates from cancer and cardiovascular diseases —about half that of the general population... Moreover, the healthiest LDS Church members enjoy a life expectancy eight to 11 years longer than that of the general white population in the United States." For high priests who never smoked cigarettes, exercised, and had proper sleep, the mortality rate was less.

This study and others conclude that Latter-day Saints live significantly longer, healthier lives compared to the general U.S. populace

And...regarding the WoW suggestion of eating meat only in the winter months....this one is obvious....back in 1833 they had no way for keeping, storing meat...and people often got sick from eating rancid meat ....however it could be kept much better in the winter months when stored in the colder weather....this of course until the advent of refrigerator freezers, now we don't have to worry about eating bad meat, that is, unless you shop at the Mom & Pop down the road from me...I got a roast from them the other day that was plain nasty! LOL!

[Princess3dward]

YEY! BROTHER DORSEY!

[Maureen]

Yes but.....Joseph Smith was only human....and all humans make mistakes...

Yes I agree he was human, and I am of the opinion that drinking coffee or alcohol moderately is not making a mistake, it is indeed being human.

I am pointing out that the observance of the WofW has changed from the 19th century to present time. There are a few who would think that as soon as the WofW was introduced is was followed to the letter, which is not the case. The interest and attitude in the WofW has evolved through the decades.

M.

[Maureen]

A 14-year selective study conducted by UCLA epidemiologist James E. Enstrom tracked the health of 10,000 moderately active LDS people in California, ending in 1987...

You're talking about a 20 year old study?

A weighty religious issue: LDS heavier

By Jeremy Twitchell

Deseret Morning News

OREM — Utah's religious divide appears to have a physical as well as spiritual side — LDS Church members on average weigh 4.6 pounds more than their counterparts in other religions.

A recently completed study shows that Utah, and particularly its LDS population — for many years seen as a bastion of health in a nation where fitness is on a steady decline — is slipping, especially around the waistline.

The study, involving a cross section of Utah adults from different religions over a nine-year period, also found that LDS Church members are 14 percent more likely (18 percent for males, 9 percent for females) to be obese than their non-LDS counterparts.

The study was compiled by BYU health science professor Ray Merrill, who gathered the data from figures obtained in 1996, 2001 and 2003-2004 by the Utah Health Status Survey.

The most recent numbers, while still high, showed there has been some improvement since 1996, when LDS adults were found to be 5.7 pounds heavier on average and 34 percent more likely to be obese....

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C...84267%2C00.html

M.

[Princess3dward]

lol. I am underweight too....

I beat the odds!!!

[Palerider]

I have sat here and read these post on this subject for sometime now.....The word of wisdom was given in 1833 regarding tobacco and alcohol and other substances. It was taken seriously and its observance in the 19th century was characterized by moderation. It was not until the 20th century when it became a test of fellowship or a member in good standing.....

[shanstress70]

And...regarding the WoW suggestion of eating meat only in the winter months....this one is obvious....back in 1833 they had no way for keeping, storing meat...and people often got sick from eating rancid meat ....however it could be kept much better in the winter months when stored in the colder weather....this of course until the advent of refrigerator freezers, now we don't have to worry about eating bad meat, that is, unless you shop at the Mom & Pop down the road from me...I got a roast from them the other day that was plain nasty! LOL!

But revelation is given for all time, right? Wouldn't God know that we would eventually have refrigeration and that meat would not go rancid about 1916 or so? It's funny how people can pick and choose what they want to live by.

My FIL drinks decaf coffee all the time, even when he was a bishop, as though it were the caffeine that he's avoiding per the WoW. However, he also drinks Coke which does contain caffeine bc it's not a 'hot drink'. Whatever you feel good about, I guess.

I know that God does not mind me having coffee and tea... both these drinks are so good they had to come straight from Heaven! I'm enjoying a delicious cup of Kona coffee right now.

[Princess3dward]

I know that God does not mind me having coffee and tea... both these drinks are so good they had to come straight from Heaven! I'm enjoying a delicious cup of Kona coffee right now.

So God told you that he doesn't mind you breaking that particular commandment?

Just wondering.

[shanstress70]

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I know that God does not mind me having coffee and tea... both these drinks are so good they had to come straight from Heaven! I'm enjoying a delicious cup of Kona coffee right now.

So God told you that he doesn't mind you breaking that particular commandment?

Just wondering.

God told me that wasn't a commandment. :)