Buffalos and had-hads

[Jamie123]

I heard this one years ago, but someone the other day reminded me of it:

Puzzle: Punctuate the following sentence such that it makes sense:

James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher.

This one was entirely new to me:

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

[Clue: There are three kinds of "buffalo" - buffalo the animal, Buffalo the town, and the verb "to buffalo" (meaning to intimidate).]

Edited March 15, 2012 by Jamie123
I made a slight mistake - the second "buffalo" should not start with a capital.

[FunkyTown]

I heard this one years ago, but someone the other day reminded me of it:

Puzzle: Punctuate the following sentence such that it makes sense:

James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher.

This one was entirely new to me:

Buffalo Buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

[Clue: There are three kinds of "buffalo" - buffalo the animal, Buffalo the town, and the verb "to buffalo" (meaning to intimidate).]

James: while John had "had had had had had had had had", "Had" had a better effect on the teacher.

Buffalo Buffalo? Buffalo buffalo, buffalo buffalo. Buffalo buffalo.

Direct quotes within quotation marks relay exactly what John had written. Assuming John had no punctuation in his original piece, the lack of punctuation within the quotation marks makes it technically accurate.

How close was I to what I was supposed to write?

[Guest]

Too much time in your hands?

[Jamie123]

James: while John had "had had had had had had had had", "Had" had a better effect on the teacher.

Buffalo Buffalo? Buffalo buffalo, buffalo buffalo. Buffalo buffalo.

Direct quotes within quotation marks relay exactly what John had written. Assuming John had no punctuation in his original piece, the lack of punctuation within the quotation marks makes it technically accurate.

How close was I to what I was supposed to write?

1. You're on the right track :)

2. Sorry - I should have specified it has to be a single sentence. You're allowed commas, colons, semi-colons, quotation marks in the middle, but no question marks, screamers or full stops.

[Jamie123]

Too much time in your hands?

LOL - not exactly, but silly word-games are a lot more fun than what I ought to be doing!

[Dravin]

James: while John had "had had had had had had had had", "Had" had a better effect on the teacher.

Buffalo Buffalo? Buffalo buffalo, buffalo buffalo. Buffalo buffalo.

Direct quotes within quotation marks relay exactly what John had written. Assuming John had no punctuation in his original piece, the lack of punctuation within the quotation marks makes it technically accurate.

How close was I to what I was supposed to write?

Alternatively -

James While-John Hadhadhadhadhadhadhadhadhadhadhad had a better effect on the teacher.

Turn 'em into proper nouns (spacing is punctuation right?). It's lazy but it works unless I'm missing something.

Edited March 15, 2012 by beefche

[Guest]

Okay, here you go:

James, while John had had "had," had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher.

Basically means that The teacher likes James better than John because the teacher is more sensitive to people who had "had had" than "had".... "had" in quotes, of course, has no meaning outside of whatever James, John, and the teacher think it is...

And the Buffalo one doesn't need punctuation except for the period at the end of the sentence to be grammatically correct.

Basically means that buffalos from Buffalo (New York or whatever place has a place called Buffalo that has buffalos) intimidated buffalos from Buffalo who in turn intimidated buffalos from Buffalo... and this sentence can go on and on and on like looking at your reflection standing in between two mirrors facing each other...

Lots of these types of things around... there's one about Can and Police... can't remember how they go...

[pam]

It all sounds like gibberish to me..or someone with a stuttering problem.

[Jamie123]

Okay, here you go:

James, while John had had "had," had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher.

And the Buffalo one doesn't need punctuation except for the period at the end of the sentence to be grammatically correct.

...

Perfect!

Basically means that The teacher likes James better than John because the teacher is more sensitive to people who had "had had" than "had".... "had" in quotes, of course, has no meaning outside of whatever James, John, and the teacher think it is...

...

I assmed the teacher felt that in this particular context (whatever it was) the past perfect clause "had had" was more appropriate than the past imperfect clause "had". But you're right - that's pure speculation :)

Basically means that buffalos from Buffalo (New York or whatever place has a place called Buffalo that has buffalos) intimidated buffalos from Buffalo who in turn intimidated buffalos from Buffalo... and this sentence can go on and on and on like looking at your reflection standing in between two mirrors facing each other...

Lots of these types of things around... there's one about Can and Police... can't remember how they go...

Another one is: Will Will will the will to Will? Edited March 15, 2012 by Jamie123

[Guest]

Perfect!

Philippine schools have at least 3 credit hours of English classes every school year from Kindergarten all the way to High School graduation plus 2 semesters in college. We end up getting exposed to really freaky things like, "Peter piper picked a peck of pickled pepper." to practice proper pronounciation of the letter P. The P is pronounced flat in Bisaya (my dialect) - without air leaving your lips, whereas it is pronounced almost like P-hee in English.

We learn all these crazy figurative expressions - like "The die is cast." which doesn't make sense outside of a board game or casino... and yet, when I arrived in San Francisco, I had a hard time understanding what everyone is saying. All those years of English classes and nobody ever taught me that when an American says, "Yeah right." it doesn't necessarily mean he's agreeing with you and that when Americans use "pretty" as an adjective like in "pretty good" only the person saying it knows exactly what he means.

[Guest]

Perfect!

Another one is: Will Will will the will to Will?

That's an easy one.

When I was in high school, my most hated thing was to get a very long sentence and figure out the parts of speech.

Like for the sentence above... it follows the S-P-DO-IO pattern as follows:

Will is the subject.

Will will is the predicate. (Will of course starts the sentence in a question form)

will is the direct object.

to Will is a prepositional phrase used as the indirect object.

But then, sentences can get super duper long and it becomes so confuddled as to the sentence pattern and parts of speech.

[Jamie123]

Philippine schools have at least 3 credit hours of English classes every school year from Kindergarten all the way to High School graduation plus 2 semesters in college. We end up getting exposed to really freaky things like, "Peter piper picked a peck of pickled pepper." to practice proper pronounciation of the letter P. The P is pronounced flat in Bisaya (my dialect) - without air leaving your lips, whereas it is pronounced almost like P-hee in English.

We learn all these crazy figurative expressions - like "The die is cast." which doesn't make sense outside of a board game or casino... and yet, when I arrived in San Francisco, I had a hard time understanding what everyone is saying. All those years of English classes and nobody ever taught me that when an American says, "Yeah right." it doesn't necessarily mean he's agreeing with you and that when Americans use "pretty" as an adjective like in "pretty good" only the person saying it knows exactly what he means.

Totally off-topic Anatess, but I've often wondered what your avatar is a picture of. It would put me out of my mysery if you would explain :)

[slamjet]

What the freak is going on here?

[Guest]

Totally off-topic Anatess, but I've often wondered what your avatar is a picture of. It would put me out of my mysery if you would explain :)

LOL!

That's a picture of Salazar. My son's pet ball python climbing over a tree limb to scope out the water bowl. He was only about 6 months old here. He is now 4 years old and is just over 3 feet long.

[applepansy]

Philippine schools have at least 3 credit hours of English classes every school year from Kindergarten all the way to High School graduation plus 2 semesters in college. We end up getting exposed to really freaky things like, "Peter piper picked a peck of pickled pepper." to practice proper pronounciation of the letter P. The P is pronounced flat in Bisaya (my dialect) - without air leaving your lips, whereas it is pronounced almost like P-hee in English.

We learn all these crazy figurative expressions - like "The die is cast." which doesn't make sense outside of a board game or casino... and yet, when I arrived in San Francisco, I had a hard time understanding what everyone is saying. All those years of English classes and nobody ever taught me that when an American says, "Yeah right." it doesn't necessarily mean he's agreeing with you and that when Americans use "pretty" as an adjective like in "pretty good" only the person saying it knows exactly what he means.

"The die is cast" does have meaning outside a board game or casino.

[Vort]

"The die is cast" does have meaning outside a board game or casino.

The phrase appears to have originated in ancient times from the Latin expression "alea iacta est". Nevertheless, it can be understood today as a reference to die casting, which would make equally good sense -- perhaps better, since after you've cast the object, you can't alter it except by melting it down and recasting it.

[Guest]

"The die is cast" does have meaning outside a board game or casino.

Yes, that's exactly what 1 college semester course was all about. To figure out what all those seemingly non-sensical phrases mean. The die is cast before we learned the figurative meaning in college plainly means it's time to move your game piece to however many places...

It's as easy as pie. I can't make pie and from what I've seen, that idiot thing is complicated to make from scratch. So, without going through that semester, I would have no clue what that phrase meant... because, sometimes, phrases are said completely opposite than what is meant (a perfect example of which is my cousin telling me, "good going, Tess" when I dropped the pitcher of juice that splashed all over the kitchen). So, I'm left to wonder... do they mean, Easy as in "really easy" or do they actually mean Easy as in, "it's insanely complicated, duh!".

[RipplecutBuddha]

for instance, why do the phrases 'fat chance' and 'slim chance' have similar meanings?

Why do we park on driveways, and drive on parkways?

two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do...

And we wonder why people don't like to learn English.....

[Guest]

for instance, why do the phrases 'fat chance' and 'slim chance' have similar meanings?

Why do we park on driveways, and drive on parkways?

two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do...

And we wonder why people don't like to learn English.....

And let's not even get to the kind of English people in North Florida use... like, "I'm fixing to take a shower"... okay, was it broke?

[applepansy]

Yes, that's exactly what 1 college semester course was all about. To figure out what all those seemingly non-sensical phrases mean. The die is cast before we learned the figurative meaning in college plainly means it's time to move your game piece to however many places...

It's as easy as pie. I can't make pie and from what I've seen, that idiot thing is complicated to make from scratch. So, without going through that semester, I would have no clue what that phrase meant... because, sometimes, phrases are said completely opposite than what is meant (a perfect example of which is my cousin telling me, "good going, Tess" when I dropped the pitcher of juice that splashed all over the kitchen). So, I'm left to wonder... do they mean, Easy as in "really easy" or do they actually mean Easy as in, "it's insanely complicated, duh!".

:) To me "easy as pie" to me means its easy. Pie is easy and fast to make... for me! LOL

I think its is a good discussion. We need to be aware of the words we use because they can mean something different to someone else. Our tone and inflection just don't come through in typed words.

[applepansy]

The phrase appears to have originated in ancient times from the Latin expression "alea iacta est". Nevertheless, it can be understood today as a reference to die casting, which would make equally good sense -- perhaps better, since after you've cast the object, you can't alter it except by melting it down and recasting it.

The die has been cast

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

for instance, why do the phrases 'fat chance' and 'slim chance' have similar meanings?

Why do we park on driveways, and drive on parkways?

two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do...

And we wonder why people don't like to learn English.....

Something can also simutaneously burn up and burn down.

(But actually, most foreigners I know say English is pretty easy - usually they say it's easier than their own.)

[Vort]

(But actually, most foreigners I know say English is pretty easy - usually they say it's easier than their own.)

Grammatically, English is far simpler (and therefore easier) than any other European language. For example:

• Gender has all but ceased to exist, preserved only in a few words such as "mistress" and "blonde".
• Noun declension survives only in singular/plural and a separate possessive (corresponding to genitive) case (i.e. son/sons, son's/sons').
• Verb conjugations are simplified, often changing only in the third person singular by adding an 's' (e.g. I/we/you/they speak, he/she/it speaks), and sometimes not changing at all (e.g. I/he/she/it/we/you/they must).
• Not strictly a grammar point, but worth mentioning that in modern English, the second person singular ("thou") has disappeared entirely, replaced in all cases by the second person plural ("you"). (And it's a very sad loss...)

I understand that Japanese and Mandarin Chinese have even simpler grammars than English.

But English has other features that more than make up for its simple grammar. First, the verb conjugations are highly irregular, and not just in the common verbs, as in other languages. Second, English contains more sounds than most other languages, so pronouncing it properly (not even accounting for regional variation) is very hard for most people. For example, the American 'r' is notoriously difficult for non-native speakers to master; there is a reason it's the last sound most children can say.

Both of the above reasons have to do with English's mongrel past: It's a Germanic language, but half of its vocabulary comes from Latin, mostly through Norman French, and it has extensive vocabulary from all over Europe -- including different systems of singular/plural (boy/boys vs. man/men) and conjugation, especially in the participle (speak/spoke, hear/heard, eat/eaten, hold/held, lift/lifted). These two things alone, not even counting pronunciation, make English extremely difficult for most non-native speakers to learn to speak well.

And then there are our vowels, which are rarely pure and are often schwaed. And our propensity for verbing our nouns.

"First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds language. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because I no verbs."

for instance, why do the phrases 'fat chance' and 'slim chance' have similar meanings?

"Fat chance" is implicitly ironic, meaning "very, very small chance".

And let's not even get to the kind of English people in North Florida use... like, "I'm fixing to take a shower"... okay, was it broke?

I adore such regional variations. Sister Vort is from Pittsburgh, and I used to tease her about her "Pittsburghese" -- until I noticed she was avoiding such expressions as "run the sweeper". So I told her I loved her wording and quit teasing her about it altogether, at least for a few years.

Yes, that's exactly what 1 college semester course was all about. To figure out what all those seemingly non-sensical phrases mean. The die is cast before we learned the figurative meaning in college plainly means it's time to move your game piece to however many places...

But of course, all languages use figurative expressions. This is not unique to English; it is ubiquitous to all human languages.

It's as easy as pie. I can't make pie and from what I've seen, that idiot thing is complicated to make from scratch. So, without going through that semester, I would have no clue what that phrase meant...

For an accomplished cook, pie is easy to make. The crust is just a mixture of flour and lard with a little water thrown in, and the filling can be whatever you have left over from your last meal.

because, sometimes, phrases are said completely opposite than what is meant (a perfect example of which is my cousin telling me, "good going, Tess" when I dropped the pitcher of juice that splashed all over the kitchen).

I think most European cultures include a very healthy (or perhaps unhealthy) dose of linguistic irony. It seems to be common throughout Europe to say the opposite of what you mean when you're being ironic, either in casual conversation (as above) or in heated discussion. Sarcasm is an often-used tool in English and other European languages. Perhaps other areas do not make use of sarcasm and other irony, or perhaps less so than Europeans.

[Vort]

I heard this one years ago, but someone the other day reminded me of it:

Puzzle: Punctuate the following sentence such that it makes sense:

James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher.

This one was entirely new to me:

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

[Clue: There are three kinds of "buffalo" - buffalo the animal, Buffalo the town, and the verb "to buffalo" (meaning to intimidate).]

My kids and I played with this a year or so back. I decided that "fish" fulfilled the requirements that "buffalo" fulfills -- not the proper noun part, though I'm sure we can find a town or person named "Fish" somewhere. But it really needs only to be a noun and corresponding verb, and since "fish" is a collective plural, you can use the verb "fish" with it:

Fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish fish. (etc.)

[Guest]

I come from a country with only 20 letters in the National Language alphabet...

We don't have the letter C because, frankly, what's the purpose of a C? Nothing. It's either a K or an S. What's the purpose of a Q? Nothing. It's a Kw. No purpose for an X because it's an Eks.

We don't have the letter F because... there's no F sound in Pilipino. Neither is there a V sound. No J, and no Z.

But, we do have the Ng letter (yes, it's one letter). It is pronounced exactly the same as the end of the word Bring. In Pilipino, that letter can be found anywhere within a word - beginning, middle, or end - which drives my husband crazy because, for some reason, he can't pronounce Ng when it is used anywhere except at the end of a word...

Pilipino is the easiest language, in my opinion, to learn how to read/write. There is only ONE pronounciation for each letter. An A is always an A as in Avocado. An E is always an E as in Elephant, I is always Igloo, O is always Octopus, U is always put. So, if you can speak it, you can read and write it by just learning all 20 sounds of each letter in the Alphabet - A B K D E G H I L M N Ng O P R S T U W Y. My most embarassing moment in America is when my mother told my cousin that she's washing my bed sheets.

Okay, trivia... if you ask most people familiar with the Philippines, they'll tell you the National Language is Tagalog. Uhm, no. The National Language is Pilipino. Tagalog is only one dialect out of the 49 distinct dialects spoken in the Philippines.

What happened was that before the Spanish Colonization in the 1500's, the Philippines was just a bunch of islands ruled by tribes. Each tribe is their own autonomous group having their own culture and language. Spain colonized the region and established the Philippines under the Spanish Government but they kept the Filipinos from learning Spanish so that the tribes can't band together to overthrow Spain. In the late 1800's, the Filipinos secretly formed a Revolutionary group using the Tagalog dialect as their common language as most of them spoke it. Spain got overthrown, Americans took over and helped the Filipinos establish a government and so in 1939, the Filipino leaders decided to unite all Filipinos under a common language to make the nation stronger and so they studied each distinct dialect and picked the most common words among the languages then plopped them over the Tagalog sentence structure to form Pilipino - the National Language.

Because of this, the Tagalog dialect basically went almost extinct, because each new generation of Tagalog speakers started using the more modern Pilipino. Recently, a group of Tagalog speakers formed an organization whose main mission is to preserve the Tagalog dialect. They're facing an uphill battle because Tagalog has become synonymous to Pilipino, not only among Filipinos but among international organizations as well.