Mean Kid on the playground

[TheDollyMama]

My kids and I just started last week going to our ward's playgroup activities. I have a 2 month old son and a 4 year old daughter. Both times my daughter has pushed a little kid down on purpose. I don't know why she has gotten to be mean. I don't know what to do or how to change this behavior. Both times i have scolded her and put her in a time out.

Any advice?

[Guest]

That's tough! I would tell her that you aren't going to play group until she can play nice. Then skip the next 2 or 3 times. Make sure to tell her on that day that it's playgroup day, but you aren't going to go because she keeps pushing littler kids. Then the next time, ask her if she's ready to try again. If she pushes again, leave immediately, and don't go again for awhile. She'll either grow out of it or get the point.

[Jennarator]

I agree w/ Eowyn. I would also ask her why she pushed and roll play other ways to deal with the issues. Like if she pushed because someone took the swing she wanted, roll play what to do other than push. Let her know to come talk to you before she gets really mad and wants to push someone. I know that can be hard for a small child, but it time she wil learn how to cope with others.

[Guest]

For the record, I've found 4 to be the hardest age so far in all my kids 4 and older. The good news is, the demon usually leaves them sometime before they're 6. :)

[beefche]

I agree w/ Eowyn. I would also ask her why she pushed and roll play other ways to deal with the issues. Like if she pushed because someone took the swing she wanted, roll play what to do other than push. Let her know to come talk to you before she gets really mad and wants to push someone. I know that can be hard for a small child, but it time she wil learn how to cope with others.

Ok, this misspelling made me laugh!

It's role play. Roll play would be rolling on the ground in play. So, the idea of teaching a child to not push someone by rolling on the ground makes me laugh!

[Guest]

Ahh, the 4-year-old stage. This is the age where my 2 boys went through their un-ending WHY? stage.

Okay, I have some opinions on this matter. First off, it's around the 4-year-old mark when the kids are constantly seeking validation from their parents. This is also the time when the kid's imagination starts to run wild and they may still get "real" and "pretend" mixed up. And this is also around the time that the kids start to feel intense emotions beyond physical triggers. Physical triggers are things like being hungry, tired, sleepy, uncomfortable (wet diaper and such). It is around the 4 year old mark that they start to realize emotions such as anger, fear, abandonment, frustration, etc.

Of course, these are just some of the changes in the 4-year-old stage but I'm listing these in particular because this may hold the clue to your daughter's behavior.

So, the question is... Why did she push somebody on the playground? Here's some possibilities:

1.) I'm reading the initial post and I see 2-month-old. Hmm... that may be a clue. Maybe she was looking for validation from Mommy but Mommy was too busy keeping the 2-month-old happy so, she pushed somebody on the playground to get mommy's attention.\

Or...

2.) She got angry, felt the emotion and didn't know what to do about it, so she thought pushing the kid was the best response.

Or...

3.) She was playing in the playground by re-enacting something she saw on Dora the Explorer where Dora pushed Boots down the mountain, she saw the kid and Dora/Boots and the kid joined together in her imaginative play so she pushed the kid.

Or... it might be something else.

Now, all we see is that your daughter pushed somebody and we immediately think - Oh, she was being mean! Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. Careful observation and analysis of WHY this happened can lead to how to correct it... only you, as the mother, can know exactly what's going on.

Hope this helps.

[applepansy]

For the record, I've found 4 to be the hardest age so far in all my kids 4 and older. The good news is, the demon usually leaves them sometime before they're 6. :)

I agree. Four is a transitional age which I think is what makes it more difficult. The terrible twos are a breeze compared to the Fours.

I needed the reminder. I've been beating myself up for not handling my grandson better. He just turned 4 yesterday. I'd forgotten this stage. Thanks!

[Jennarator]

Ok, this misspelling made me laugh!

It's role play. Roll play would be rolling on the ground in play. So, the idea of teaching a child to not push someone by rolling on the ground makes me laugh!

I don't see why they can't play with the roll dough while talking about how to play nice with others....lol!

[Guest]

Mmmmmm, rolls. . .

[TheDollyMama]

The look on her face when she did it is how I know she was doing it in anger or something else like that. I could tell today when she did it when I looked up and saw her walking toward the little girl by the look on her face and thought "oh no... not again". SHe doesn't seem quite old enough to get the question "why did you do that?" She always just gives some bizarre answer that has nothing to do with why she did something.

[john doe]

Invest in a good quality cattle prod.

[pam]

Has she been in this type of situation much before? Meaning the interraction with other kids her age. If not that could also be part of the reason she is acting this way. Perhaps not knowing how to interract with other kids.

But I have to agree. The 4 year old stage is sometimes a tough one.

[JudoMinja]

I do time-outs consistently. I have a three-year-old, and any time he does anything I don't approve of he gets a time out. This includes hitting/kicking out of anger, throwing things on the floor, etc. There are some times where he's playing with others and he hits out of anger or acts out for attention. To me, it doesn't matter why he does it. What matters is that it is not allowed and I won't tolrate it. So when he does it, he goes in time out. It depends on the day, but most of the time he plays well with others. Usually, if I do have to put him in time out, I only have to do it once or twice before he shapes up. There are those days though when he's just consistently "mean"- and those are usually the days where I cut play time short.

[annewandering]

What is most important right now is that she knows you do not approve and will not tolerate it. I am very glad you are a mom who sees the problem and wants to find a way to address it and not try to excuse her behaviour. Excellent job!

I am probably not the greatest mom because I just told them to knock it off that it was not the way to treat people.

[rameumptom]

Get with the other mother. When she bullies a child, she has to give up one of her favorite toys to the harmed child. Suddenly, it requires more than just an apology, but she loses something of value to her.

If that doesn't work, then get with the other mother and if she okays it, allow the other child to push her down, just so she can see how it feels to be bullied.

[TheDollyMama]

Has she been in this type of situation much before? Meaning the interraction with other kids her age. If not that could also be part of the reason she is acting this way. Perhaps not knowing how to interract with other kids.

But I have to agree. The 4 year old stage is sometimes a tough one.

She was in daycare until the end of last year so, yes she has had plenty of interaction with other kids. She never had any trouble there. She isn't mean at home or with her older brothers and sister. She isn't even mean to the littlest one. She always wants to help him and hold him. It is so frustrating and embarrassing.

I don't like to hear 4yo are tough... I thought it was going to get easier now... LOL

[annewandering]

She was in daycare until the end of last year so, yes she has had plenty of interaction with other kids. She never had any trouble there. She isn't mean at home or with her older brothers and sister. She isn't even mean to the littlest one. She always wants to help him and hold him. It is so frustrating and embarrassing.

I don't like to hear 4yo are tough... I thought it was going to get easier now... LOL

lol it never gets easier. my youngest is 25 and its still not easy. Different issues but life and children never do get easy. :)

[Guest]

Okay, I have a completely different way of dealing with negative actions. I have to say, my kids are now 8 and 10 with the younger boy inheriting my anger management issues and so far it is working.

I don't punish without teaching the better way to act FIRST. For example, your child gets angry, she pushes the kid in the playground. Okay, we see the problem. Now, the natural disciplinary action is - she gets angry, she pushes the kid, she gets a consequence like going to the corner, giving up a toy, etc. BUT, she never did have an opportunity to learn how she should deal with the anger - the only thing she's learned at this point is to suppress the negative release of emotion. If you have a child with anger management issues (like me and my kid) this will not work and may just exacerbate the problem because the added stress of not knowing how to deal with the negative emotion turns inwards and would start to feed a negative self-image (my mother told me pushing a kid is bad but I'm very angry and I can't stop myself from pushing the kid so I am a very bad person and I will never be able to live with Heavenly Father, etc. etc..).

What I do - and it took me a while of self-study (studying my own anger and what would have worked for me if I was my mother) to learn some stuff that I can apply to my child - is to first quickly redirect the child to break the child's focus and then help the child identify the emotion and then help the child work through the emotion to a positive outcome. This has to happen right at the moment when the negative emotion is happening.

Okay, let me put this in a scenario:

You see your daughter's face and recognize storm clouds gathering as she walks towards a little boy.

1.) Break the child's focus. You may be 20 feet away, not close enough to physically intervene, but you can try breaking your child's focus by calling her name (firmly but not yelling like you're angry). This may work, this may not... and your daughter ends up pushing the kid anyway before you get there. That's okay, don't worry about the other kid yet, one problem at a time. Go to your daughter as fast as you can and get her attention to break her focus. Remember, don't show anger/reprimand not yet.

2.) Help her identify the emotion. Yes, asking a 4-year-old (even older kids) "Why did you do that?" is not going to help. They may not know the intense emotion they felt! So, help them identify it. Ask her interview-type questions - "Are you upset?" or "Are you mad?" or "Are you just playing?"... when you hit on a YES answer then continue the interview - "Is it because he took your toy?" or "Is it because he won't play what you want to play?"... etc. When you hit a YES answer then not only did you get a better understanding of what your daughter thinks caused the emotion, your daughter also realizes and starts to understand what triggered the emotion.

Now, if your kid is a normal kid, this would probably be just a simple - "He took my toy so I got angry". If your kid is like my kid, this can be very complicated and would take really careful observation to identify. When I was a kid I can get angry for seemingly no reason at all, sometimes I can't find a pencil and I would simply ask in exasperation, "Who stole my pencil?". But sometimes, I can't find a pencil and I would beat up my sister accusing her of stealing my pencil... for no reason. The difference may be that it just so happened that it was raining all day that day... (yes, my negative emotions are more intense when I don't get enough vitamin D - among other things). It takes a LOT of investigative work and patience to identify those causes.

3.) Work with the child to help her think of better ways to deal with the emotion. After she identifies what caused the emotion, for example, "He took my toy so I got angry", then help her think of ways she can deal with it next time. For example, you can tell her, "Pushing the kid is really not a good way to let him know you are angry. This will just hurt the other kid and we don't ever want to do that. Next time, when you get angry, count from 1 to 10 then tell the kid to give your toy back. If he won't do it, then go to me and let me help you deal with the problem.". Or something to that effect.

4.) Give her something she can do to make her feel better to correct the negative emotion. For example, after you told her that pushing the boy is bad and explaining to her why, a 4-year-old would start to realize what she did was wrong. At this time, you can help her feel better by "righting the wrong", like asking her to go to the boy to say "I'm sorry" (this is the best way in my opinion). Giving him her toy is not necessary. A sincere apology goes a long way. If the boy has left the playground you can ask her to write an apology card when you get home. You can keep the card in your diaper bag if you like for when you go the playground again and maybe see the boy. If not, it's okay, the lesson is already complete.

At this time, the lesson is complete so you can go the boy's mother and apologize to her. You can explain that you're still working on teaching your child some social skills.

Now, if this happens again - do the same thing again by reinforcing the lesson you taught before, saying words like, "Remember we talked about this before...", etc. You really don't need to do anything else at this age. Just consistently do the same thing until your child learns to deal with the negative emotion in a positive way herself. When she gets older, and it is still happening you can make the "right the wrong" part hold a heavier consequence like applying restrictions. My favorite go-to restriction is telling my kids to sit on a bench or jog around the soccer field while contemplating the positive ways of dealing with anger. Another one of my favorites is asking my kid to pray to Heavenly Father asking His forgiveness. My kid is 8 and I still do this if his emotions get the best of him. My 10-year-old doesn't have this problem anymore since he started Kindergarten. He's pretty much learned to control negative emotion. I'm sure this will pop up again at puberty stage, though.

Okay, hope this helps.

P.S... one thing I found out - if I look up to the sky (or the ceiling) I can better control my anger. This works for my kid too! So, my kid is now an expert at identifying when his anger is building, he's been trying the trick of look up to the ceiling until the anger is not overwhelming him anymore before he does anything else.

Edited March 28, 2012 by anatess

[Guest]

Oh no... I'm turning into JudoMinja with bad grammar!

[JudoMinja]

Anatess, you are awesome. :)

I've found myself doing basically everything you've described after I've done time-outs, if I'm consistently still having a problem. I probably should have explained though that part of my time-out process includes asking them to identify why they got in trouble. As soon as the timer dings to let them know that their time is done, I go and ask if they know why I put them in time-out. At first, I would get confused answers, but now I get consistent "yes" answers and an identification of the problem. They then apologize to whomever they need to and thats that.

I think that, for the most part, kids are good at problem solving on their own without having to have it explained to them. Letting them figure it out themselves encourages the development of those problem solving skills and will make it more likely that they will be able to identify problems on their own and how to deal with them when I'm not around to help.

My oldest nephew though needed a bit more help. He had some serious issues from about 2 to 5, because he was dealing with all the inconsistency of my brother's divorce. He'd spend time with mommy and have no discipline whatsoever, spend time with daddy and get spanked and yelled at for everything, then spend time with grandma and me- and we would have to try to salvage and correct everything. He didn't have any problem with anger management- he was just extremely rough and wild and uncaring. He would beat up on his little brother and anyone else who played with him, and he would throw the most terrible tantrums whenever he didn't get his way. He took some work.

I still did the time-out method, but I also did a bit of the intervention and explaining that you described. I would also have conversations with him when he was being calm and well-behaved about how he was feeling about mommy and daddy, to try and help him identify that he was acting out because he was having difficulty adjusting. And when I would play with him with toys, I would act out scenarios similar to how he was playing with others, but have the toys respond in the appropriate way so that he could see what to do.

Now, he is a very well-behaved and adjusted kid- he's 6 right now. Part of it is because his dad finally settled into something stable with his new marriage, but I like to think that a large part of it is also due to my mother's and my efforts to help him. :)

Anyway- I think that the time-out method works well for most kids and is a great all-around discipline tool that can be adjusted as needed for individual circumstances. Then, if you are dealing with a situation where time-outs just aren't working, you can start adding in different tools and strategies to help your children identify their wrong behaviors and how they can choose better reactions.