Mormons walking in Gay pride parade in SLC

[MorningStar]

So... Basically your arguments hinge on a lesser commandment superseding a higher commandment(love thy neighbor).

Does loving your neighbor mean agreeing or supporting everything they do? No.

My niece has been mutilating her body and her "friends" tell her how awesome and beautiful she is. The family tells her the truth, which is that she will never have a normal job if she continues down this path and can't reverse what she is planning on doing to her body. She doesn't like hearing it, but someday she will grow up and realize who loved her - the people looking out for her best interest.

[JesusParadox]

No, I think the basic argument is that showing love to a neighbor can encompass more than attending a parade to celebrate a lifestyle that is against God's commands.

I agree 100%! I am just saying for some attending a gay pride parade is showing love. It is also does not go against church teachings

For the record lets vote,

Who thinks I am an apostate or undermining the church if I attend a gay pride parade?

[beefche]

I agree 100%! I am just saying for some attending a gay pride parade is showing love. It is also does not go against church teachings

For the record lets vote,

Who thinks I am an apostate or undermining the church if I attend a gay pride parade?

Oh come on. Let's be adults here. You know there are going to be some who think that and some who don't.

What people are saying is that despite the INTENTIONS of the attendees, the public may interpret such actions as PROMOTING or CONDONING the gay lifestyle.

[Windseeker]

No, I think the basic argument is that showing love to a neighbor can encompass more than attending a parade to celebrate a lifestyle that is against God's commands.

Isn't that what Shawn is saying?

It does not matter that it is a gay pride parade, outreach is outreach.

The great lie is that there is no outreach without endorsement, and that your presence at a parade is not an endorsement. Your reasons are yours alone, your presence in an endorsement. I suppose you can wave a big sign saying I love these guys I just don't agree with their lifestyle. Let me know how that goes.

[JesusParadox]

There may be a plan in the works to have all Latter-day Saints who tolerate their gay brothers to wear rainbow ties at church one Sunday. Women would wear a bracelet or necklace. The national media would know about it and a lot of people would participate. It would be a way to show we don't hate you, you are God's Children also.

[EarlJibbs]

If that is the case, why should we not attend a parade? Attending a gay parade is basically an outward manifestation of what you support.

To not attend just because it is parade about taking pride in their lifestyle is not a good argument. They will hold the parade and live their lifestyle regardless. If not attending the parade would cause them to stop living that lifestyle; then it would be undermining the church. Since it does not stop them, we should have tolerance(love) towards our neighbors.

You couldnt have said it better. If we support their lifestyle, then attend. Their lifestyle has nothing to do with supporting the person from hate crimes and unjust persicution. The lifestyle that the Pride Parade itself is supporting is contrary to the LDS beleifs. Thus supporting the Parade that supports the lifestyle that is against the LDS beleifs would be considered undermining what we have been taught.

[Vort]

For MasterOrator's convenience in answering:

The interesting part is that many Latter-day Saint are at rehab centers and prisons trying to help crack smokers. That is showing tolerance much like attending a gay pride parade is showing a form of tolerance.

Wrong. Staffing a center to rehab homosexuals and try to help repentent SSA sufferers is equivalent to staffing rehab centers and prisons. Attending a parade for Gay Pride is equivalent to attending a parade for cutters or crack smokers (or dog sex people) -- it's a glorification of the activity, not an affirmation of the underlying humanity.

If a "Gay Pride Parade" is merely an affirmation of homosexuals' underlying humanity and in no way a glorification of their perversion, then explain why a Dog Sex Pride Parade (or cutters parade, or crack smokers parade) is not exactly the same thing.

There is no connection between showing love to a group of people and putting morality up for a public vote.

You claimed there was:

In the case of a gay pride parade, almost half of the United States would support such a parade. That is why it is important we show love towards them.

Note your logic: The REASON we should show love toward homosexual activity is BECAUSE half the country supports it.

No.

But why not? As you clearly claimed above, the REASON to support homosexuality is because it's now so popular. Why would the Saints of a couple of generations past not have been justified in condemning it, seeing as how it wasn't popular at that time?

Love the sinner not the sin.

Please answer the question instead of dodging it: If in fifty years people think sex with animals is wonderful, should the Saints at that time support a Bestiality Pride Parade?

There is no need to show tolerance for people who are doing something against the law.

Until very recently, homosex was against the law. So are you now saying that as long as homosexual conduct is illegal, we have no moral imperative to show tolerance for homosexuals? It's only when the homosexual conduct is made legal that we are obliged to show tolerance for it?

Vort, do you agree that we should be tolerant of gays? I am sure you do as the church teaches that.

I have never heard the Church teach "be tolerant of gays", so I don't even know what you mean. We should be tolerant of gays in the same sense that we should be tolerant of people with freckles and people with spiked hair and people with body odor and people with crack addictions and people who rape other people and people who use foul language and people who vote Democrat and people who ride motorcycles. We should be tolerant of people.

If that is the case, why should we not attend a parade? Attending a gay parade is basically an outward manifestation of what you support.

You have just answered your own question. We should never, ever, EVER support homosexuality. It is a grave and destructive sin. It is a practice that leads people away from God. It is spiritual death.

Attending a Gay Pride Parade is, as you say, showing support toward homosexuality. Such is exactly contrary to everything the gospel teaches. We should, of course, show tolerance to homosexuals on a personal basis. But showing tolerance to a smoker doesn't mean I let him smoke in my car. It also doesn't mean I fight against no-smoking laws in public places. I tolerate the smoker, because he's a human being, but I do not condone his actions and attend Smoker's Pride Parades.

And since homosex is approximately ten zillion times more destructive than smoking, I certainly don't attend Gay Pride Parades, either.

To not attend just because it is parade about taking pride in their lifestyle is not a good argument. They will hold the parade and live their lifestyle regardless.

Then why don't you want to attend the Bestiality Pride Parade? They will hold the parade and live their lifestyle regardless. And for the sake of argument, let's pretend it's legalized, just like homosex has been.

If not attending the parade would cause them to stop living that lifestyle; then it would be undermining the church.

How on earth do you possibly justify this statement?

Since it does not stop them, we should have tolerance(love) towards our neighbors.

Having tolerance (love) toward our neighbor who smokes or fornicates with prostitutes or has sex with his pooch or smokes crack or masturbates with razor blades does not mean we have any business attending and supporting parades that glorify those things.

[applepansy]

Respectfully, I have to disagree with the whole pride issue and touting the evils of pride. We need to be honest, a gay pride parade is not much different then a pioneer parade. As far as, showing pride for a group of people.

You just respectfully disrespected the pioneers who risked life to emigrate to the wilderness. The pioneers were obeying God. Homosexuals who have sex outside of marriage are not.

I want to be clear, I am not saying you are a bad Latter-day Saint if you did not go.

yes you are.

And if you really did understand pride you would understand why pride is sinful.

[JesusParadox]

You just respectfully disrespected the pioneers who risked life to emigrate to the wilderness. The pioneers were obeying God. Homosexuals who have sex outside of marriage are not.

yes you are.

And if you really did understand pride you would understand why pride is sinful.

I am sorry you feel that way ma'am; I wish I could change your mind somehow. :)

[NadiaStar]

So... Basically your arguments hinge on a lesser commandment superseding a higher commandment(love thy neighbor).

You said early you don't have to attend a parade to be a good Latter Day Saint, but then you condemn those of us who don't attend the parades? Which is it?

[applepansy]

There may be a plan in the works to have all Latter-day Saints who tolerate their gay brothers to wear rainbow ties at church one Sunday. Women would wear a bracelet or necklace. The national media would know about it and a lot of people would participate. It would be a way to show we don't hate you, you are God's Children also.

Actually the rainbow ties and bracelets would be seen as supporting the Young Women's values, which are:

Edited June 7, 2012 by applepansy

[JesusParadox]

You said early you don't have to attend a parade to be a good Latter Day Saint, but then you condemn those of us who don't attend the parades? Which is it?

I am sorry you feel that way ma'am; I wish I could change your mind somehow. :)

[NadiaStar]

There may be a plan in the works to have all Latter-day Saints who tolerate their gay brothers to wear rainbow ties at church one Sunday. Women would wear a bracelet or necklace. The national media would know about it and a lot of people would participate. It would be a way to show we don't hate you, you are God's Children also.

But what if I didn't want to participate? What would my rainbow-weraing fellow saints do to me? Get mad at me for not wearing a rainbow bracelet?

[JesusParadox]

But what if I didn't want to participate? What would my rainbow-weraing fellow saints do to me? Get mad at me for not wearing a rainbow bracelet?

Nadia, not at all, I have expressed repeatedly that is how we express our love(tolerance). You are free to meet the commandments requirements how you see fit.

If you think about it, just read this thread, those who oppose it would get mad.

[applepansy]

I am sorry you feel that way ma'am; I wish I could change your mind somehow. :)

Now you're just patronizing. I don't believe you're sorry for your offensive comparison. You're just sorry you can't change anyone's minds.

[JesusParadox]

Now you're just patronizing. I don't believe you're sorry for your offensive comparison. You're just sorry you can't change anyone's minds.

No I am not patronizing... No I am not sorry for the comparison... What I am sorry for is that you think I am attacking you.

[beefche]

apple, will you resize that picture to make it slightly smaller and to fit the screen? Thanks.

[NadiaStar]

Nadia, not at all, I have expressed repeatedly that is how we express our love(tolerance). You are free to meet the commandments requirements how you see fit.

If you think about it, just read this thread, those who oppose it would get mad.

I don't think you understand how the media works. If this happened, and the media got wind of it, you would get a difference of the "Good Mormon" and the "Bad Mormons". To the gay community, I would be a Bad Mormon. LDS members who got caught up in the "I support gays" a little too much would probably agree and condemn me.

[NadiaStar]

I am sorry you feel that way ma'am; I wish I could change your mind somehow. :)

How the heck does it answer my question?

[applepansy]

No I am not patronizing... No I am not sorry for the comparison... What I am sorry for is that you think I am attacking you.

I don't believe you're attacking me or Nadia. You are being disrespectful and trying to pass it off as something else.

[applepansy]

apple, will you resize that picture to make it slightly smaller and to fit the screen? Thanks.

how?

Edit: I changed to a smaller picture. I don't know how to resize pics.

Edited June 7, 2012 by applepansy

[Guest]

I don't believe you're attacking me or Nadia. You are being disrespectful and trying to pass it off as something else.

Trying to pass something bad off as something good? You don't say.

[JesusParadox]

I don't believe you're attacking me or Nadia. You are being disrespectful and trying to pass it off as something else.

I think we have more to agree on then disagree on. Your testimony was great and I have a similar one!

Edited June 7, 2012 by beefche

[Vort]

How the heck does it answer my question?

MasterOrator isn't very good at paying attention long enough to answer questions. It helps if you ask a few times, so he can remember.

[Vort]

For MasterOrator's convenience in answering:

The interesting part is that many Latter-day Saint are at rehab centers and prisons trying to help crack smokers. That is showing tolerance much like attending a gay pride parade is showing a form of tolerance.

Wrong. Staffing a center to rehab homosexuals and try to help repentent SSA sufferers is equivalent to staffing rehab centers and prisons. Attending a parade for Gay Pride is equivalent to attending a parade for cutters or crack smokers (or dog sex people) -- it's a glorification of the activity, not an affirmation of the underlying humanity.

If a "Gay Pride Parade" is merely an affirmation of homosexuals' underlying humanity and in no way a glorification of their perversion, then explain why a Dog Sex Pride Parade (or cutters parade, or crack smokers parade) is not exactly the same thing.

There is no connection between showing love to a group of people and putting morality up for a public vote.

You claimed there was:

In the case of a gay pride parade, almost half of the United States would support such a parade. That is why it is important we show love towards them.

Note your logic: The REASON we should show love toward homosexual activity is BECAUSE half the country supports it.

No.

But why not? As you clearly claimed above, the REASON to support homosexuality is because it's now so popular. Why would the Saints of a couple of generations past not have been justified in condemning it, seeing as how it wasn't popular at that time?

Love the sinner not the sin.

Please answer the question instead of dodging it: If in fifty years people think sex with animals is wonderful, should the Saints at that time support a Bestiality Pride Parade?

There is no need to show tolerance for people who are doing something against the law.

Until very recently, homosex was against the law. So are you now saying that as long as homosexual conduct is illegal, we have no moral imperative to show tolerance for homosexuals? It's only when the homosexual conduct is made legal that we are obliged to show tolerance for it?

Vort, do you agree that we should be tolerant of gays? I am sure you do as the church teaches that.

I have never heard the Church teach "be tolerant of gays", so I don't even know what you mean. We should be tolerant of gays in the same sense that we should be tolerant of people with freckles and people with spiked hair and people with body odor and people with crack addictions and people who rape other people and people who use foul language and people who vote Democrat and people who ride motorcycles. We should be tolerant of people.

If that is the case, why should we not attend a parade? Attending a gay parade is basically an outward manifestation of what you support.

You have just answered your own question. We should never, ever, EVER support homosexuality. It is a grave and destructive sin. It is a practice that leads people away from God. It is spiritual death.

Attending a Gay Pride Parade is, as you say, showing support toward homosexuality. Such is exactly contrary to everything the gospel teaches. We should, of course, show tolerance to homosexuals on a personal basis. But showing tolerance to a smoker doesn't mean I let him smoke in my car. It also doesn't mean I fight against no-smoking laws in public places. I tolerate the smoker, because he's a human being, but I do not condone his actions and attend Smoker's Pride Parades.

And since homosex is approximately ten zillion times more destructive than smoking, I certainly don't attend Gay Pride Parades, either.

To not attend just because it is parade about taking pride in their lifestyle is not a good argument. They will hold the parade and live their lifestyle regardless.

Then why don't you want to attend the Bestiality Pride Parade? They will hold the parade and live their lifestyle regardless. And for the sake of argument, let's pretend it's legalized, just like homosex has been.

If not attending the parade would cause them to stop living that lifestyle; then it would be undermining the church.

How on earth do you possibly justify this statement?

Since it does not stop them, we should have tolerance(love) towards our neighbors.

Having tolerance (love) toward our neighbor who smokes or fornicates with prostitutes or has sex with his pooch or smokes crack or masturbates with razor blades does not mean we have any business attending and supporting parades that glorify those things.