Failing testimony

[RM4LifeMan]

This church has been my home for ages. There is nothing I would rather do then be am ember of this church. That, however, has changed, I don't believe anymore. I have been as high as a Stake President. The reason I am here is to try and work through it.

That was damaged though when I read something about Nazis here the other day. Somebody posted about how people are just animals. Then cited the concentration camps as proof. That in those camps they just acted like animals. That is so true.

Yet, I don't want it to be. Help! Help! Need my testimony!

[Dravin]

Okay, I'm assuming just reading a post on the internet about individuals resorting to the natural man didn't just shatter a healthy testimony in a single blow and strip you of your belief. There is an underlying issue, or issues, that is going to need work on, which if you are seeking help, besides the Sunday School answers (not to disparage them, they're answers for a reason), is going to require you sharing something more than you have here.

[Misshalfway]

So let me see if understand your feelings correctly.

You are experiencing a crisis of faith because mankind is really awful to each other sometimes. Is that right?

[Vort]

People are animals, RM4LifeMan. You know this perfectly well from reading the Book of Mormon. The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been since the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever. There is no way around this. It is an eternal truth. The only solution is to put off the natural man and become a Saint. That is the only hope.

Naziism is a stellar example of the natural man, and typifies many (most?) ancient human societies. It is truly a miracle that any of us can see past our carnal natures. But that is a gift of the Spirit given to all who enter the covenant, and many other good people who do not yet know of the covenant.

The observation that people in their natural and fallen state are animals does not contradict or invalidate the gospel. On the contrary, it points up exactly how necessary the gospel is for us.

[Guest]

Men and women do awful things like genocide and violent crime and adultery. These things are not God's way for us. Agency is, as are justice and mercy.

[NeuroTypical]

Where is your loss or your doubt? Do you doubt God's existence, or His goodness, or His church? Is it an issue with how He allows evil to exist?

We need a little more information before we can help.

[applepansy]

What I understood from the OP is that he is having a crisis of faith. He thought he might be able to talk it out here until he read whatever thread mentioned Nazi's.

RM4LifeMan,

I agree with Dravin. Its really tough to help someone with their doubts unless we understand the issues that caused the doubts.

My favorite response to someone doubting what they once knew to be true, especially when talking about the Gospel, is: Doubt your Doubts. Doubt comes from Satan. I've typed these words more than once on a thread here. They aren't just words to me. When I'm faced with a doubt it has helped me to doubt the doubt. I often ask myself why am I doubting what I've had faith in all along. I didn't come up with this. Its in one of John Bytheway's talks.

I hope you are able to work through whatever issues you're having, pray, read the scriptures and find your faith again.

[Sicily510]

Come What May, and Love It

Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin

Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

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The way we react to adversity can be a major factor in how happy and successful we can be in life.

When I was young I loved playing sports, and I have many fond memories of those days. But not all of them are pleasant. I remember one day after my football team lost a tough game, I came home feeling discouraged. My mother was there. She listened to my sad story. She taught her children to trust in themselves and each other, not blame others for their misfortunes, and give their best effort in everything they attempted.

When we fell down, she expected us to pick ourselves up and get going again. So the advice my mother gave to me then wasn’t altogether unexpected. It has stayed with me all my life.

“Joseph,” she said, “come what may, and love it.”

I have often reflected on that counsel.

I think she may have meant that every life has peaks and shadows and times when it seems that the birds don’t sing and bells don’t ring. Yet in spite of discouragement and adversity, those who are happiest seem to have a way of learning from difficult times, becoming stronger, wiser, and happier as a result.

There may be some who think that General Authorities rarely experience pain, suffering, or distress. If only that were true. While every man and woman on this stand today has experienced an abundant measure of joy, each also has drunk deeply from the cup of disappointment, sorrow, and loss. The Lord in His wisdom does not shield anyone from grief or sadness.

For me, the Lord has opened the windows of heaven and showered blessings upon my family beyond my ability to express. Yet like everyone else, I have had times in my life when it seemed that the heaviness of my heart might be greater than I could bear. During those times I think back to those tender days of my youth when great sorrows came at the losing end of a football game.

How little I knew then of what awaited me in later years. But whenever my steps led through seasons of sadness and sorrow, my mother’s words often came back to me: “Come what may, and love it.”

How can we love days that are filled with sorrow? We can’t—at least not in the moment. I don’t think my mother was suggesting that we suppress discouragement or deny the reality of pain. I don’t think she was suggesting that we smother unpleasant truths beneath a cloak of pretended happiness. But I do believe that the way we react to adversity can be a major factor in how happy and successful we can be in life.

If we approach adversities wisely, our hardest times can be times of greatest growth, which in turn can lead toward times of greatest happiness.

Over the years I have learned a few things that have helped me through times of testing and trial. I would like to share them with you.

Learn to Laugh

The first thing we can do is learn to laugh. Have you ever seen an angry driver who, when someone else makes a mistake, reacts as though that person has insulted his honor, his family, his dog, and his ancestors all the way back to Adam? Or have you had an encounter with an overhanging cupboard door left open at the wrong place and the wrong time which has been cursed, condemned, and avenged by a sore-headed victim?

There is an antidote for times such as these: learn to laugh.

I remember loading up our children in a station wagon and driving to Los Angeles. There were at least nine of us in the car, and we would invariably get lost. Instead of getting angry, we laughed. Every time we made a wrong turn, we laughed harder.

Getting lost was not an unusual occurrence for us. Once while heading south to Cedar City, Utah, we took a wrong turn and didn’t realize it until two hours later when we saw the “Welcome to Nevada” signs. We didn’t get angry. We laughed, and as a result, anger and resentment rarely resulted. Our laughter created cherished memories for us.

I remember when one of our daughters went on a blind date. She was all dressed up and waiting for her date to arrive when the doorbell rang. In walked a man who seemed a little old, but she tried to be polite. She introduced him to me and my wife and the other children; then she put on her coat and went out the door. We watched as she got into the car, but the car didn’t move. Eventually our daughter got out of the car and, red faced, ran back into the house. The man that she thought was her blind date had actually come to pick up another of our daughters who had agreed to be a babysitter for him and his wife.

We all had a good laugh over that. In fact, we couldn’t stop laughing. Later, when our daughter’s real blind date showed up, I couldn’t come out to meet him because I was still in the kitchen laughing. Now, I realize that our daughter could have felt humiliated and embarrassed. But she laughed with us, and as a result, we still laugh about it today.

The next time you’re tempted to groan, you might try to laugh instead. It will extend your life and make the lives of all those around you more enjoyable.

Seek for the Eternal

The second thing we can do is seek for the eternal. You may feel singled out when adversity enters your life. You shake your head and wonder, “Why me?”

But the dial on the wheel of sorrow eventually points to each of us. At one time or another, everyone must experience sorrow. No one is exempt.

I love the scriptures because they show examples of great and noble men and women such as Abraham, Sarah, Enoch, Moses, Joseph, Emma, and Brigham. Each of them experienced adversity and sorrow that tried, fortified, and refined their characters.

Learning to endure times of disappointment, suffering, and sorrow is part of our on-the-job training. These experiences, while often difficult to bear at the time, are precisely the kinds of experiences that stretch our understanding, build our character, and increase our compassion for others.

Because Jesus Christ suffered greatly, He understands our suffering. He understands our grief. We experience hard things so that we too may have increased compassion and understanding for others.

Remember the sublime words of the Savior to the Prophet Joseph Smith when he suffered with his companions in the smothering darkness of Liberty Jail:

“My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;

“And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes.”1

With that eternal perspective, Joseph took comfort from these words, and so can we. Sometimes the very moments that seem to overcome us with suffering are those that will ultimately suffer us to overcome.

The Principle of Compensation

The third thing we can do is understand the principle of compensation. The Lord compensates the faithful for every loss. That which is taken away from those who love the Lord will be added unto them in His own way. While it may not come at the time we desire, the faithful will know that every tear today will eventually be returned a hundredfold with tears of rejoicing and gratitude.

One of the blessings of the gospel is the knowledge that when the curtain of death signals the end of our mortal lives, life will continue on the other side of the veil. There we will be given new opportunities. Not even death can take from us the eternal blessings promised by a loving Heavenly Father.

Because Heavenly Father is merciful, a principle of compensation prevails. I have seen this in my own life. My grandson Joseph has autism. It has been heartbreaking for his mother and father to come to grips with the implications of this affliction.

They knew that Joseph would probably never be like other children. They understood what that would mean not only for Joseph but for the family as well. But what a joy he has been to us. Autistic children often have a difficult time showing emotion, but every time I’m with him, Joseph gives me a big hug. While there have been challenges, he has filled our lives with joy.

His parents have encouraged him to participate in sports. When he first started playing baseball, he was in the outfield. But I don’t think he grasped the need to run after loose balls. He thought of a much more efficient way to play the game. When a ball was hit in his direction, Joseph watched it go by and then pulled another baseball out of his pocket and threw that one to the pitcher.

Any reservations that his family may have had in raising Joseph, any sacrifices they have made have been compensated tenfold. Because of this choice spirit, his mother and father have learned much about children with disabilities. They have witnessed firsthand the generosity and compassion of family, neighbors, and friends. They have rejoiced together as Joseph has progressed. They have marveled at his goodness.

Trust in the Father and the Son

The fourth thing we can do is put our trust in our Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.

“God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son.”2 The Lord Jesus Christ is our partner, helper, and advocate. He wants us to be happy. He wants us to be successful. If we do our part, He will step in.

He who descended below all things will come to our aid. He will comfort and uphold us. He will strengthen us in our weakness and fortify us in our distress. He will make weak things become strong.3

One of our daughters, after giving birth to a baby, became seriously ill. We prayed for her, administered to her, and supported her as best we could. We hoped she would receive a blessing of healing, but days turned into months, and months turned into years. At one point I told her that this affliction might be something she would have to struggle with the rest of her life.

One morning I remember pulling out a small card and threading it through my typewriter. Among the words that I typed for her were these: “The simple secret is this: put your trust in the Lord, do your best, then leave the rest to Him.”

She did put her trust in God. But her affliction did not disappear. For years she suffered, but in due course, the Lord blessed her, and eventually she returned to health.

Knowing this daughter, I believe that even if she had never found relief, yet she would have trusted in her Heavenly Father and “

the rest to Him.”

Conclusion

Although my mother has long since passed to her eternal reward, her words are always with me. I still remember her advice to me given on that day long ago when my team lost a football game: “Come what may, and love it.”

I know why there must be opposition in all things. Adversity, if handled correctly, can be a blessing in our lives. We can learn to love it.

As we look for humor, seek for the eternal perspective, understand the principle of compensation, and draw near to our Heavenly Father, we can endure hardship and trial. We can say, as did my mother, “Come what may, and love it.” Of this I testify in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Slavery, the holocaust, everything pertaining thereof has been since the days of old. These were things that mankind were to learn from, that we are not to subjugate one another but love and live helping each other to become worthy to dwell in the eternal presence of Heavenly Father. Don't let one persons bias opinion destroy your ability to seek eternal happiness, know that the church only promotes Jesus Christ and the gospel. People are going to try and test and make you lose face in your faith, but as long as you differentiate right from wrong and participate in things that can help you grow spiritually such as callings in the church and volunteering in your community for a good cause can you flourish. The Church Of Jesus Christ Of These Latter-day Saints is for the valiant, the weak that seek for righteousness, the faithfuls.

[pam]

As a former Stake President you must have had to counsel and advise many people on this same subject. What did you tell them?

[Misshalfway]

Having a crisis of faith is really scary. I can relate. But I found, in my journey, that it has been a great blessing. Maybe it's a little like a broken leg where the fracture line grows back stronger than before. For me, I now own my testimony in ways I never knew before.

May God attend you in your hour of crisis. May you procede without fearing the doubt.

[skoshmom]

I don't know the answers to all things, but I know the answers to the most important things. I am a child of God, He does indeed love me, and I will know the answers to my questions in due time, What I have right now is faith to guide me through the perils of life and through life's atrocities. I have been the victim of abuses, I have seen many loved ones die of cancer, I have seen a friend's husband get shot and killed, leaving her with a young child. Going through these things have made my resolve stronger that I will not only endure to the end, but endure well[/I] to the end. There are many wonderful churches out there, but only one true church. I know I have found it.

It is my prayer that you find your way back. I can truly testify that having the church in your life is so much sweeter than not having the church in your life. The problems in life will still be there, but know that heavenly Father will not leave you - We can have the Holy Ghost to be our constant companion and comforter. For me, there is nothing sweeter. You do your part and keep your covenants, then Heavenly Father will do his part. He is not bound when you break your covenants, and funny thing is, he is never the one to first break the covenants - we are.

[rameumptom]

Alma teaches that an important key to regaining a testimony is remembering. We must remember the "captivity of our fathers". We must remember how sin and evil have made us miserable (as you now seem to be). And we must remember the wonderful experiences we've had in the past with the Spirit in our lives. Think of the joy and happiness you once had in your testimony. Think about how Satan seeks to make you as miserable as he is, by distracting you from remembering your past spiritual experiences, filling you with confusion and pain, instead.

So, spend some time remembering. If you have a mission journal, then read it. See what caused you to believe in the first place. Think of the people you have helped, and those who have helped you. Think of your most spiritual experiences and how they made you feel inside.

You had this once. As with Peter Pan in the movie "Hook", you just need to remember.