Bullying at Church

[Bini]

There really is something wrong there. Might be wise to see whats going on.

My first thought is sexual abuse to some degree, as well. I had a 4-year old niece from my previous marriage that was molested, and she would expose herself to family members and friends. Her parents were challenged with redirecting her with appropriate behaviour. It really was a heartbreaking situation. So it's possible that this boy is acting out from a traumatic event that has happened to him. And with that being a possibility, it is also possible that he's simply being obnoxious, and in the most inappropriate way. Some children seek attention, be it positive or negative -- because they lack attention, period, at home.

[Windseeker]

Hi Morning Star,

I don't disagree with any of the posts so far, but as a caution I would just say that it's important that with each situation you balance your desire to protect your son with a desire for him to develop resilience. In some situations it's a good idea to get out the way and just listen thereby communicating a message of confidence and trust that your son can handle and overcome his challenges.

That said it sounds like you have great a great relationship with your son.

[MorningStar]

Hi Morning Star,

I don't disagree with any of the posts so far, but as a caution I would just say that it's important that with each situation you balance your desire to protect your son with a desire for him to develop resilience. In some situations it's a good idea to get out the way and just listen thereby communicating a message of confidence and trust that your son can handle and overcome his challenges.

That said it sounds like you have great a great relationship with your son.

Thank you. :) We have been trying to teach him how to deal with it, but it's not improving. At Scout Camp with too few leaders, it was like Lord of the Flies. I think some big lessons were learned.

[Windseeker]

LOL > Lord of the Flies

Sounds like it. Well when it comes to scouting in particular I think parents need to be way more involved. I also think they need to start drug testing the scouts before they can attend Scout Camp.

[Bini]

I also think they need to start drug testing the scouts before they can attend Scout Camp.

I wonder how popular this opinion is. Should other such organisations also drug test children (18 and under)? I may be mistaken but Scouts is aged 12 to 18?

[Vort]

I wonder how popular this opinion is. Should other such organisations also drug test children (18 and under)? I may be mistaken but Scouts is aged 12 to 18?

I have not thought through all the ramifications, but my impression is that I would have no objection whatsoever.

[Guest]

And people wonder why I don't want my son in scouts.

[Bini]

And people wonder why I don't want my son in scouts.

It seems that bullying is not only more common than we'd like to think but takes place in settings that we'd like to believe are safe for our children.

[Guest]

How many boys' - mens' - lives are ruined because some punk exposed them to porn that they wouldn't have otherwise looked at, and then they are addicted for the rest of their lives? Not just in scouts, either. Cub Scouts, too.

I think anatess's policy of having her husband go to scout camp with her son is a good one.

[Vort]

And people wonder why I don't want my son in scouts.

In fairness, Scouting can be a wonderful program that will provide important life skills for the boy. And the Scouting environment is typically much better than the schooling environment to which most children are exposed. When I was in Scouts, the talk sometimes got raw, but nothing approaching what I was exposed to in school.

[MorningStar]

And people wonder why I don't want my son in scouts.

I think it depends on the troop and leaders. I talked to our best friend who has been a Scout leader for 5 years and he says our son is welcome to come with them next year. They go through all of the boys' stuff to make sure they don't have anything they shouldn't and they don't tolerate anything like I told him about. He said the boys could face disciplinary action from Scouts and that abuse can be a problem for the organization whether it comes from leaders or other Scouts.

I told my friend maybe they need moms at Scout Camp to ruin it for them. We have eyes in the backs of our heads. In fact, we would know the very sound of their pants being pulled down.

[MorningStar]

How many boys' - mens' - lives are ruined because some punk exposed them to porn that they wouldn't have otherwise looked at, and then they are addicted for the rest of their lives? Not just in scouts, either. Cub Scouts, too.

I think anatess's policy of having her husband go to scout camp with her son is a good one.

Unfortunately, it can happen anywhere. I was playing at a girls' house in kindergarten when she showed me her parents' porn. I told her her parents were sick and didn't tell my parents until years later because it was too embarrassing to talk about. Really graphic. So, I'm a little paranoid about who my kids play with.

[Bini]

My husband is in the construction field, and works with some less than desirable characters. He told me that the guys on the job site do "Hottie of the Day", which is basically pictures of a nude woman (ranked highly by men) in various positions, and doing various things. It's done on their cellphones. The sad thing is, many of these men are husbands and fathers, some are even members of the LDS church.

[Guest]

I guess maybe my kids will just never leave the house again. <sigh>

[Bini]

I guess maybe my kids will just never leave the house again. <sigh>

My daughter's gonna be Bubble Girl!

Seriously, though, I'm already having a hard time thinking about future things my daughter is going to want to do.. Slumber parties, going on dates with boys, and so on and so forth.

[Windseeker]

I was the kid who everyone thought was messing up because I hated dressing nice for church and was a punk. Despite the fact I glowered my way thru adolescence I was pretty happy as long as the adults left me alone and even though I felt misjudged I was proud of the decisions I made and my committment to the gospel. I know of times when the Priests blessing the sacrament were high, I learned to recognize the smell of weed from walking past their tents during Scout Camp. As crazy as my ward was most of those guys grew up became wonderful young men. I can't say the same for my younger brother and some of his friends. The more North we moved it seemed the harder the drugs. I wanted to reconnect with him after returning from my mission and didn't put it together till later, that the scouts running and diving into the waves at midnight in their skivies on a freezing Washington beach were all on drugs. He's now in his 30's and a meth addict and according to him so are some of his former friends from youth. Sad.

^So yeah..all for Drug Testing the Scouts.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Windseeker

[MorningStar]

Sadly, this inattention that so many LDS parents give to their children is destroying the next generation of Mormons. We are only one generation away from not existing as a Church.

These parents are dooming their children to misery. I've come to the conclusion that parents who neglect their children do not really love their kids. They just placate them, so they don't have to deal with them.

I'm definitely not the perfect parent, but it does seem there are a lot more parents just throwing their hands up in the air rather than putting in a lot of effort to discipline their kids. I see a combination of wanting to give their kids what they never had, not expecting them to work enough, and being in denial about how out of control their children are. I will never forget the first time I had to go to a parent about their child attacking my child. The dad laughed, "Oh, boys!" It wasn't a two way thing - my son was holding his hand out and crying, "No!" while this boy kicked him in the shin repeatedly and laughed. Approaching parents about their kids' misbehavior is now one of the things I dread the most. When my kids have new teachers at church or school, I ask them to let me know immediately if they act up so I can help stop the behavior. I let them know they never have to be afraid of sharing negative information with me.

[daboosh]

seriously what the heck?

ive literally just come out of the young mens program like 4 months ago, and over all the camps i have been into in my time during youth not once have i seen anything close to this.

[Windseeker]

seriously what the heck?

ive literally just come out of the young mens program like 4 months ago, and over all the camps i have been into in my time during youth not once have i seen anything close to this.

Crazy huh.

I want to state that I think Scouts who use drugs are by far the exception, I don't see that happening at all in my current ward. I think perhaps Scout leaders are more aware now days couple that with the fact that parenting styles have changed a bit and Scouts that are active are more likely to be active by choice, not by force. Which is probably a great relief on the leaders and makes this kind of behavior less likely.

My oldest didn't go thru Scouting and he's a great kid. I've repented though and shed the shackles of the past and plan to be more active in the Scouting program with my younger son.

Still think Scouts should be drug tested..

[Guest]

Unfortunately, it can happen anywhere. I was playing at a girls' house in kindergarten when she showed me her parents' porn. I told her her parents were sick and didn't tell my parents until years later because it was too embarrassing to talk about. Really graphic. So, I'm a little paranoid about who my kids play with.

My husband being active in Scouts is not just to make sure there are enough leadership there to oversee the children. He is also there to guarantee that at least our kids don't just slide through scouts learning nothing concrete. He is big on Scouting as an important learning program for boys. I have a beef about scout camp that I'll tell you later...

Our teaching style at home is to teach correct principles, prepare the environment, and let the children decide. So, my sons have computers in their rooms and mobile devices with internet access. My husband and I being tech savvy monitors all activity, etc. So that, even if my children end up somewhere else where internet is unfiltered (like a friend's house, etc.), they'll know what to do. Part of preparing the environment is, we are active in school, we make my kids' friends family our friends, we make our house the "fun" house where everybody wants to hang out in (one reason why I said okay to pet snakes when I was deathly terrified of them - all the kids want to hang out in the house with the snakes), we go through what-if scenario discussions, etc. We have open communication at home - yes, it involves having to sit and listen when the kids want to tell me about the creepers they fought off and the pick-axe they earned in minecraft when I have a mountain of laundry to do. And lastly, my kids carry their devices with them at all times - including scout camp. They know to call immediately when they find themselves in dangerous situations - and the devices have GPS tracking so we can find them if necessary.

You can't control what other people do, but you can control what you do and where you go.

... okay, about my beef about scout camp. So, all the kids got archery and bbgun belt loops from camp (you can only get this if you go to camp). There were so many kids at scout camp (we went to the camp with all the packs in the area - we were the only LDS pack in there and we only had 8 children... one of the packs from the Presbyterian Church had over a hundred)... anyway, there were so many children that they rushed through bbgun and archery. Our kids were taught gun safety, bow and arrow safety, and they got on the range. They shot the gun with 5 bb's for the bbgun and 3 arrows for the archery (and these are such sorry bows that the string doesn't even stretch enough to launch an arrow 5 inches). There was only one director and 10 kids shooting at a time - he didn't bother to check if the kids did the proper stance, etc., - there was no check to see if they even made the target. After 5 bb's they earned the belt loop. 3 arrows on archery. I didn't see where the kids proved that they understood what the Director was teaching them. They got belt loops anyway. My husband accompanied my boys, so he did the checking, etc. for them. Our leadership was asked to man some of the stations so we only had one leader apart from my husband who shepherded the kids around the stations. So yeah, if you ask me, I don't think a lot of the kids earned those belt loops... but, what do I know. My father in law is an archer (sports), so my kids go to his backyard to practice on his compound bow. And then, they have their bbguns that my husband got them when they turned 8 that they practice with grandpa as well, so I'm confident my kids earned their archery and bbgun pins. My husband and his dad are gung-ho on Scouts. They both agree that in LDS scouting, leaders can only do so much. It's up to the parents to make sure their children are prepared for scouts and earning the awards.

Edited August 2, 2012 by anatess

[MarginOfError]

Crazy huh.

I want to state that I think Scouts who use drugs are by far the exception, I don't see that happening at all in my current ward. I think perhaps Scout leaders are more aware now days couple that with the fact that parenting styles have changed a bit and Scouts that are active are more likely to be active by choice, not by force. Which is probably a great relief on the leaders and makes this kind of behavior less likely.

My oldest didn't go thru Scouting and he's a great kid. I've repented though and shed the shackles of the past and plan to be more active in the Scouting program with my younger son.

Still think Scouts should be drug tested..

I think drug testing scouts is an overly invasive approach to take. I know for a fact that some of our scouts would fail a random drug test on occasion. So far as I know, they've never used any illicit substance during a scouting activity. We have heard them talking about using them elsewhere. We had a talk with them about what we heard and made our views clear. It was also made clear that if we ever suspected they were using on our watch, they would immediately be sent home. That seemed to be a fair deal for them.

The goal of the scouting program is to help these youth be confident making decisions for themselves and to help them make good decisions. But they are still teenagers and are going to do stupid things from time to time. I don't think that instituting policies to catch offenders is going to do much to help us open up dialog with them. A drug testing policy would do very little to curb experimentation; instead it would make them more diligent about not getting caught.

[Bini]

I would bet that this is common in given circumstances. And I agree, doesn't sound like those belt loops were really earned..

[MorningStar]

seriously what the heck?

ive literally just come out of the young mens program like 4 months ago, and over all the camps i have been into in my time during youth not once have i seen anything close to this.

That's great to hear! I was expecting some pranks, but nothing like this. When I was at girls' camp, we would take the new girls on snipe hunts, but it was all in good fun. We would also "drown" people. We had a board with name tags that showed who was swimming and in which end - the deep or the shallow. If we forgot to put them back, they would make us do embarrassing things at our flagpole ceremony and declare that we drowned. So, we would move other girls' tags.

[MorningStar]

We are finally having the parent meeting about this situation tonight. Dreading it. I really don't know what to expect.

[Backroads]

We are finally having the parent meeting about this situation tonight. Dreading it. I really don't know what to expect.

Well, I would check your feelings at the door and be prepared for a rather emotional incident.

I hope it ends well.