All_Apologies Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I've read that Joseph Smith was a 32 degree freemason. I've also read that 33 degree masons are Luciferian. What do you, personally, tell people when they bring up the fact that Joseph Smith was a freemason and that the temple has masonic symbolism on it? I don't know what to tell people when they ask me this, so I usually don't say anything. When I was a child, I went into a masonic temple for my friend's church dance (she was Presbyterian). That place had such an evil, creepy feeling inside. Don't quite know what to make of Joseph Smith being a freemason. What thoughts do you all have on this? I don't know what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I don't think anything about it. Joseph Smith and, in fact, many or most of the early leading brethren, were Masons. It was a popular group at the time. I don't see what the big deal might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Never heard about the Luciferean deal. Not sure I believe it. Do you have evidence? As for Joseph Smith & Co being Masons... I figure good for them. It's an organization that does a lot of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiJolly Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I've read that Joseph Smith was a 32 degree freemason. Not true. He was raised to Master Mason, the 3rd degree, and the highest degree in the Blue (or regular) Lodge. I've also read that 33 degree masons are Luciferian. Do you know the difference between "Luciferian" and "Devilish/Satanic"? Not that it matters, I suppose. 33 degree Freemasons get that label by joining and working in an appendant organization of one sort or another, the two best known are the Scottish rite and the York rite. And all the ones I've met are real stand-up guys, not evil in any way. What do you, personally, tell people when they bring up the fact that Joseph Smith was a freemason and that the temple has masonic symbolism on it? I tell them that's correct, and if I have a few hours, I discuss it in depth. I don't know what to tell people when they ask me this, so I usually don't say anything. That's wise. When I was a child, I went into a masonic temple for my friend's church dance (she was Presbyterian). That place had such an evil, creepy feeling inside. Don't quite know what to make of Joseph Smith being a freemason. His Grandfather was a freemason, as also his dad and Alvin, his brother. His older brother Hyrum was named for the proponent in the Masonic lodge ritual Hiram. His mother knew well not only the local folk magic lore, but also much Freemasonic legend. Masons are generally very good, generous, sincerely religious folk. At least in my experience. I agree with most of what frater Koltko says in the above link. HiJolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Apologies Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 HiJolly--York and Scottish Rite? The 33rd degree people do those? I will have to look into that. What freaks me out is the freemason connection to the Illuminati. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiJolly Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 We know that there are truly conspiracies in the world. However, Freemasonry, Mormons, Skull & Bones, and the Illuminati are not such. For the most part, I guess I should say. Joseph believed in two different Masonic groups. The first, and the one he engaged in, is called "Speculative Masonry", and the other is called "Spurious Masonry". Joseph and almost every Freemason of his day truly believed that their rites and 'worship' (used loosely) were descended from Solomon's temple in jerusalem. Really. Today we know that there is no evidence whatsoever linking 19th century (or even 15th century) Freemasonry to the Solomonic temples. But that didn't prevent Freemasonry from using the legends to better everyone's lives. HiJolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Apologies Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 So, HiJolly-- What's the difference between speculative masonry and spurious masonry? I guess I could Google that. But I really don't like the Illuminati. They freak me out. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 The Illuminati are not real. And if they are, we can't do anything about them, so worrying is futile. There are real conspiracies in the world, and only a fool would say otherwise. We are surrounded by them in American society and even politics. I would encourage you not to waste your energy on spurious or nonsensical conspiracy theories. Ignore the fake-moon-landing people. Live honestly, and when the real conspiracies become apparent (as many are), then fight against them, not the shadows and ghosts of supposed Middle Ages conspiracies of the Knights Templar or some such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiJolly Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 So, HiJolly--What's the difference between speculative masonry and spurious masonry? I guess I could Google that. But I really don't like the Illuminati. They freak me out. :/If I believed everything I've read about the Illuminati on the internet, and in certain books, I'd be freaked out also. Many, but not all, of these conspiracy theorists are manipulative, evil people, in my opinion. David Icke? YECH!!! Speculative mean searching for truth and seeking God (define Him/Her as you will) by bettering one's self and serving mankind. Spurious means seeking to gain influence, riches, power or other worldly things via what we LDS would call "secret combinations". I have an acquaintance that used to be deeply involved with conspiracy theorists. After he joined the Church, went through the temple and such, he broke their spell over him and is doing pretty well now. It was wonderful to see. HiJolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Apologies Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 @HiJolly- But what about that book called None Dare Call It Conspiracy? Ezra Taft Benson said this book is Conspiracy Fact. And he was in the Department of Agriculture. You can see him tell people that they should read this book on YouTube. It talks a lot about secret combinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiJolly Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 HiJolly--York and Scottish Rite? The 33rd degree people do those? I will have to look into that. What freaks me out is the freemason connection to the Illuminati.Just do yourself a big favor and go to bonafide web sites, such as the SRRS(Scottish Rite Research Society) website. I was a member there for a brief time, but I know two LDS (one former member, Art; One current member, Joe) that are big muckety mucks there. And no, I've never been a Freemason. I just like them a lot, and study them. HiJolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 What freaks me out is the freemason connection to the Illuminati.I would be freaked out too, if any of it was true... I really do suggest you read more credible sources on freemasonry and illuminati. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiJolly Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 @HiJolly-But what about that book called None Dare Call It Conspiracy? Ezra Taft Benson said this book is Conspiracy Fact. And he was in the Department of Agriculture. You can see him tell people that they should read this book on YouTube. It talks a lot about secret combinations.I think the book is pretty interesting, it certainly was back in the 70's and 80's. We had a copy in our home in the 70's (I was just a teenager) and I did try to read it but like the Hobbit, it was slow going and I gave it up. (is that the first time anyone's compared the Hobbit with NDCC? -- ha!) So I guess it really wasn't *that* interesting to me! We have to be very careful today in what we say against Socialism -- Look at all the wonderful LDS people in, for example, England. Many of them are socialists. Are they somehow compromised and 'evil'? I don't think so. And if it turns out that socialism doesn't serve them well, then they have a political system where they can change it. Here's my real dislike of conspiracy theories. They cause us to live in FEAR. And is *contrary* to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which teaches us to live in Hope and Love. Any religion that requires us to obey God because He'll **** us forever if we don't, is a bad religion! Jesus taught us to obey because we LOVE Him. It's all the same principle, to me. I don't care about conspiracies because it's better for me to be actively engaged in my political process than it is to FEAR bad guys. That is the heart of my religion! HiJolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I would say that he was in good company:FAMOUS FREEMASONSA few famous freemasons: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and George Bush. All FreeMason PresidentsNewt Gingrich, 33rd Degree FreemasonBob Dole, 33rd Degree FreemasonJack Kemp, 33rd Degree FreemasonStorm Thurmond, 33rd Degree FreemasonColin Powell, 33rd Degree Freemason, U.S. Secretary of StateJesse Helms, 33rd Degree FreemasonBilly Graham, World's most popular 'Christian' evangelist is a 33rd Degree FreemasonNorman Vincent Peale, 33rd Degree Freemason, ex Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of New York, Past Grand Prelate of the Knights Templar and Shriner. (now deceased)Robert Schuller, 33rd Degree Freemason, Pastor of the Crystal Cathedral and host of the popular "Hour of Power" television programmeOral Roberts, 33rd Degree Freemason, founder of Oral Roberts UniversityJesse Jackson, 33rd Degree Prince Hall FreemasonLouis Farrahkan, leader of the Nation Of IslamGeoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury 1945-1961Father Francisco Calvo, Jesuit Catholic priest who started Freemasonry in Costa RicaG. Bromley Oxnam, 33rd Degree Freemason, friend of Billy Graham, head of the FCC churchesBarry Goldwater, 33rd Degree Freemason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 It's the Rothschilds and Colonel Sanders that you really have to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 There's a really wonderful restaurant here that occupies an old Masonic temple. No creepy feelings, but the food and ambiance are awesome. I was co-chair for an event that was put on in a big meeting room with a loft that reminded me of the stand where the general authorities sit, except it's really really high. The chamber orchestra played from there. It was a nice evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 It's the Rothschilds and Colonel Sanders that you really have to worry about.That explains Weird Al's lyric: "Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling, 'Everything you know is wrong...'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanctitasDeo Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Honestly, most of the negative stuff you hear about Masons is of the same caliber as the anti-Mormon stuff. It really isn't worth believing. And the Illuminati? Really? Are we going to talk about the lizard men who rule the world next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well, some of those men on that list aren't my choice of dinner company, but it does elevate the prominence of the organization a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookslc Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I suspect I am the only Freemason posting on the board. 1. Joseph Smith was a 3rd Degree Mason. The "higher degrees" were not even organized in that part of America. 2. There is no contemporaneous evidence that family members other than Hyrum were Masons. 3. The list of Famous Freemasons has a number of errors (including Newt Gingrich and Oral Roberts) and is likely drawn from an anti-Mason site (usually fellow travellers with anti-Mormons). 4. If you wish a tour of a Utah Masonic building, I am happy to assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Are we going to talk about the lizard men who rule the world next?Who told you, how much do you know?*runs back to lizard cave* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiJolly Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I suspect I am the only Freemason posting on the board.1. Joseph Smith was a 3rd Degree Mason. The "higher degrees" were not even organized in that part of America.The York rite was in Illinois -- John C. Bennett sent Royal Arch cypher communications to them, though he clearly should not have. 2. There is no contemporaneous evidence that family members other than Hyrum were Masons. Hmmm.... No *published* evidence, perhaps. Look to Nick Literski/Joe Swicks forthcoming book "Method Infinite" on that... Hopefully in 2013! Glad you joined the thread! HiJolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 When I was a child, I went into a masonic temple for my friend's church dance (she was Presbyterian). That place had such an evil, creepy feeling inside.My (very non-LDS, very anti-religion for that matter) father was a Mason. He liked drinking beer and laughing at funny shows on TV. And swearing when he perceived injustice. When he died, he had a Masonic funeral. It was beautiful. Sort of the exact opposite of the words 'evil' or 'creepy'.I do have one of his decorative masonic plates hanging on my wall. About one visitor in five cares, about 1 in 20 of the ones who care get weirded out about it.*shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 4. If you wish a tour of a Utah Masonic building, I am happy to assist.I have one around the corner from my house... it would be most convenient for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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