If Heavenly Father loves us?

[Hyena]

Then how does the church justify so much suffering? Even the members of the church have their own issues and pain. People lose children. They suffer divorces and cheating. They lose their jobs. They lose family members, people they depend and rely upon and love. They end up alone and in pain, broken both in heart and spirit. Why do some people find love and others are condemned to a life of quiet desperation and loneliness?

It can't all be due to the Devil. At some point, you have to question why God who wants the best for us, his children whom he loves so much, sits back and turns a blind eye during our most trying and horrible moments. Why doesn't he intervene in more tangible ways? Why do we never blame him for the awful things that happen to us? I've been reading the Book of Mormon and even there I see whole peoples who suffered needlessly. All God had to do is step in. Even Joseph Smith was martyred. Why did God allow that? He was the prophet! I get Jesus... he had to die for our sins, I get that was the price he was paying. But why so many others? Why do children lose their fathers too early in life when they needed them most? Why do we fall in love with people that can't or won't return that feeling? More importantly, why SHOULDN'T we blame God for some of our woes?

I don't mean to offend, but I need to know why I should put any more of my faith and stock in a God that for all intents and purposes claims to be a loving father and at the same time abandons us when we need him the most? Is it possible the deists were right, and God simply created us and the world and the universe and then went off to do something more interesting to an omnipotent being?

What's the point of prayer if prayers aren't ever answered?! I mean, it's a little forgiving to simply say "Oh well they are ARE answered... he answers yes, no, and maybe!" Great! But if you can't distinguish one from the other what's the good of the answer?

Maybe by even asking these questions I'm demonstrating I'm not worthy of consideration by the LDS Church for membership, but I couldn't in good conscience continue investigating without resolving this line of inquiry. I want to believe and have faith and be at peace like so many others. But I don't know how to do that. It consumes me with grief. Maybe one of you has an answer that can better explain what God's intention and purpose for us is and how you can discover what God is trying to tell you to do?

Again, if I offend I apologize profusely in advance.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

It's a very good question Hyena, one philosophers have debated for centuries...

As a survivor of years of childhood sexual abuse, you question is close to my heart...why did God allow that to happen? When I look up "adversity" on lds.org, I get a lot of talks about how God gives us trials to help us grow. While I accept in some circumstances that is true, I do not believe that God "gives" us abuse, molestation, rape, violence, murder...to help us grow. I believe He allows them, but that is different.

I really can't give you a satisfying answer to your question because I haven't found one for myself, BUT--one thing that helps is to know that Christ descended below all things. Whatever the purposes, Christ was willing to experience what any of us will go through in this life, and more. What He suffered in Gethsemane and on the cross is greater than any of us will ever have to go through.

THAT is what gives me the strength and faith to trust Him in the absence of clearer answers as to the WHY of it all.

I HOPE for the words from D&C 122 to be true, "all these things shall give thee experience and shall be for thy good." One might be inclined to write that off as simply a platitude of religiousity, but I notice that Jim Stockdale, a Vietnam POW used the same philosophy (for him it was philosophical not religious) believed the same. When author, James Collins, interviewed him and inquired about how he survived, he said:

"I never lost faith in the end of the story, I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade."

Imagine that "defining event of my life" and "would not trade". If he could say that without belief in God, how much more strength and power can we have access to with God?

Edited November 27, 2012 by LiterateParakeet

[Vort]

Very little of the pain we experience results directly from Satan (though much results indirectly from him). Satan doesn't kill children in the flesh; he seeks their spiritual death through lies and abuse.

The nature of our lives here is as a "vale of tears". It appears that God only very rarely directly interferes with a person's actions, choosing instead to respect agency. This applies even when the evildoer hurts others -- even when the ones being hurt are Saints under covenant with God. An example is the people of Ammonihah and their wholesale slaughter of the women and children of God. Alma 14 records that God not only allowed it to take place, but forbade his prophets from stopping the carnage, instead receiving up the victims of these murders to himself and condemning their executioners.

It appears that God tries to teach us not just to avoid sin, but to endure the sinful.

[Anddenex]

Again, if I offend I apologize profusely in advance.

There is no one on this site who will take offense over sincere questions, by honest seekers of truth (if not truth, at least to understand).

Why do some people find love and others are condemned to a life of quiet desperation and loneliness?

This is a great question. We are not entitled to anything in this life, even if we are faithful members, and covenant keepers. If all of the sons and daughters of God had kept the commandments from the beginning, with Adam and Eve, no one would be "condemned to a life of quiet desperation and loneliness." As a result of people's choices, not God, unfortunately some suffer more than others.

I wish I knew why it appears some have life so easily. They obtain riches, good families, etc... and pray no differently than their counterparts. Some who obtain riches are unjust man, while just man are left to suffer in poverty.

When Nephi was fulfilling the commandments of God in obtaining the plates and as a result he was beaten by his brothers with a rod due to his faith and willingness to keep the commandments. And we have in scripture, as Vort shared, yet the Lord suffered it.

I don't mean to offend, but I need to know why I should put any more of my faith and stock in a God that for all intents and purposes claims to be a loving father and at the same time abandons us when we need him the most?

We exercise faith in the answer our God has provided that he exists, and if he exists, and we have received a witness, then His doctrines must be true also, and the Deists would be wrong.

A problem I see in our lives, including mine, is that many of us feel entitled to specific blessings, prayers answers (the way we think they should be answered), etc... However, we are not entitled to anything.

There is nothing we are entitled to, thus gratitude is a key to have in in quiet and lonely lives. Even our bodies are not guaranteed to be perfect. If anything, wouldn't it be right for those who kept their first estate to receive a normal functioning body. However, this is not the case either, for many children are born incapable of performing even the simple task of computing 1 + 1.

Thus the question again funnels to this main point, "Have I received a witness from the Holy Spirit that God lives, and that the Church of Jesus Christ is the Lord's true church?" If so, then the doctrines specified are true, and we must exercise more faith until we grow and our knowledge becomes perfect. Until our knowledge is perfect we must trust, and exercise faith, hope, and charity.

This we do know from scripture, one civilization existed, who kept all the commandments of God by personal choice, and there was no one condemned to a life of quiet desperation and loneliness?

Unfortunately, it is because of our actions, our lack of love, faith, honesty, greed....that has caused many of our brothers and sisters to live a life as you speak, not God.

[applepansy]

It all boils down to the most important gift we have from our Father....Agency.

[SanctitasDeo]

You do not offend at all. This is one of the most important questions one can ask.

I would add several thoughts.

From God's perspective, this life looks very different than it does to us. Death to us is the most mysterious loss and separation, unfair and undeserved. But to God, it is a coming home.

The pain and suffering of his children does reach him. One of the most poignant and painful passages in LDS scripture is in the book of Moses (in the Pearl of Great Price). The Old Testament prophet Enoch is talking to God in an expansive vision.

26 And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced.

27 And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion.

28 And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the residue of the people, and he wept; and Enoch bore record of it, saying: How is it that the heavens weep, and shed forth their tears as the rain upon the mountains?

29 And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst aweep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity?

30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;

31 And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep?

32 The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency;

33 And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood. (Moses 7:26-33)

Our Father weeps with us. He weeps for those that are lost, and he weeps for those that the lost mistreat. I honestly believe that if he could do more, he would. In fact, he has done something earth-shaking that is often dismissed. He sacrificed his own Son to create an Atonement not only for sin but that will right all the injustices that come with this life that we chose. It is an infinite Atonement that covers every wrong. There is comfort for a comfortless world, hope for a world without hope, and love for a world that hates too much.

This life is not a just life. But this life is the smallest part of an eternal existence, not just for God, but for us, too. We existed long before we were born, and we will continue to do so after we die.

Not all our prayers are answered. We may not understand why, but I believe that we will know, one day. However, I have had prayers answered. My life is full with the knowledge that he knows that I am here; he knows what I am doing, my cares, my needs; he loves me.

Even though life is hard, I have hope in Christ, for his love is overwhelming the more you get to know him.

Moroni 7:41 And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise.

[skippy740]

I'll simply add this from The Book of Mormon to this discussion:

Alma 14:10-11

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

[Connie]

Some scriptures and quotes for you to consider:

Alma 60:13

For the Lord suffereth the righteous to be slain that his justice and judgment may come upon the wicked; therefore ye need not suppose that the righteous are lost because they are slain; but behold, they do enter into the rest of the Lord their God.

Doctrine and Covenant 122:7-8

And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.

The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?

Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul

I am convinced that there is no simple formula or technique that would immediately allow you to master the ability to be guided by the voice of the Spirit. Our Father expects you to learn how to obtain that divine help by exercising faith in Him and His Holy Son, Jesus Christ. Were you to receive inspired guidance just for the asking, you would become weak and ever more dependent on Them. They know that essential personal growth will come as you struggle to learn how to be led by the Spirit. –Elder Richard G. Scott, Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles