Looking for Advice(Long Post)

[Mischa]

Hello, everyone.

I realize there are probably many posts addressing this subject, however, I was hoping I could get some "custom" advice from members here. :)

A quick intro: I'm a senior at a university a state away from my own. I've been on somewhat of a subtle self-journey and am trying to get things together before I graduate, and here we are.

Well, to start, I lived in SLC until I was ten. During that time, my involvement in the church wasn't regular. I lived with a single parent who wasn't necessarily dedicated to my religious upbringing. He wanted me to have a good moral foundation, though, and continue in the tradition of our large (extended) family, all of whom are members, if not active.

The summer of the year I turned ten, both of my parents passed away and I (an only child) moved in with an aunt and uncle and their two children (I now refer to all as mom, dad, brother, and sister). They went to church regularly, so naturally I did too.

I was always distracted during meetings, bored. I liked primary and sometimes class, but (and I'm sure a lot of you've felt this at some point) I couldn't wait for the three hours to be over. I wasn't a great listener. I had (have) liberal viewpoints. I questioned lessons.

But it was fun and loving and supportive. I have many fond memories of being a part of that community, of being greeted by name at church and in town -- everyone knew who I was and who my family was, and they cared! But the foundation I'd never been able to build left me stranded on this island of...isolation. I always felt a deep rift between church doctrine and members and I.

This went on until I was about 15. By then I had formulated a plan to get out of going to church: a job. I got hired at a store in town and made sure I was scheduled on Sundays. I figure at that point that my parents (aunt and uncle) had long since realized there was no talking me out of it.

The next five years of my life were hell: depression and anxiety had weighted me down to the point of what I called "nonliving". I slept all day, had panic attacks, etc. Finally I got some help and through meds and therapy, have dealt with the after effects of the trauma I experienced at a young age.

But, I moved out of state, to a place I knew had little church presence and very liberal, secular views. I've been completely cut off from my home community. My family and I are close, but that embrace of my church family is gone.

I've watched some of my extended family members fall away from the LDS religion, which served to extend my inactivity. But, sporadically, after graduating high school I realized and re-realized I was missing something in my life. I thought about church -- did I really want to go back?

Yes.

And no.

There are three major themes of discontent within me. The first is political and social. I believe in gay marriage (I have a lot of gay friends and believe that they are the same as you and I in every way -- except for one gene). I believe women are equal to men and should be treated as such (referring to priesthood positions). And, perhaps worst of all, I'm pro-choice. Of course, personally, I would never take part in that, but I don't feel like I have the authority to tell others what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

The second is in regard to Joseph Smith. My image of him growing up and my knowledge now of who he really was are hard to reconcile. He performed witchcraft, basically, scrying with rocks and telling others he could find fortunes for them through the power of these stones. He was eventually indicted for fraud and all of that stopped. Then, there's polygamy, an act I don't really have a problem with -- the one thing that bothered me was Joseph's secrecy about it in Nauvoo. It just seems disingenuous. (There's more, much of which has to do with Brigham Young, but I digress...)

The third is my own worthiness. Of course, we are all sinners, but I'm not even close to the less-sinful place that members inhabit. I drink (and like) coffee, tea, and alcohol. I've smoked weed and cigarettes. I lived with a long-term boyfriend and have had pre-marital sex. I swear, use the lord's name in vain, and pass judgement where I shouldn't. The only thing that keeps my opinion of myself above water is that other than that, I'm a good person. I genuinely love others and want to help them; I try to be nice and supportive to friends, family, acquaintances, and strangers.

All of this (and if you've read this far, God bless you) leads me to my ultimate dilemma:

I want to come back, but I want to do it right and know I'm doing it for the right reasons, not just nostalgia or a pandering to my internal suspicions about purpose and death.

What do I do?

I feel like I'm in a bubble, cut off from everything (probably a lot to do with the meds). And I'm jaded, jaded and cynical. Much of it has to do with childhood trauma and having to be an adult at a young age, but perhaps it is also my surroundings and the friends I hang out with. I tried going to a Catholic church, but it felt empty. Praying feels empty -- like I'm talking to air. The members I knew and loved have either transferred wards or I feel like I can't talk to them. I also feel uncomfortable talking with my family about it (only my mom and my brother are really still active). On top of that, anytime anything that could even hint at the existence of God or the truth of the doctrine occurs I immediately assign it to something else: placebo effect, imagination, desperation, etc.

I'm completely at a loss, guys, but I feel like a part of me is tugging me in the church's direction.

Anything you think might be helpful, I'd welcome. Thank you in advance.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Hmmm, I have many thoughts going through my mind...how to organize them?

Ok, first, as a fellow survivor of childhood trauma, I suggest Wendy Ulrich's talk "Seeing Our Blindness". It is available in 4 parts on youtube, just google it. Here is the pdf 2007 Wendy Ulrich pdf free ebook download from www.fairlds.org She is LDS and a psychologist, and her talk is about how things from our past influence our relationships (with God and others) as adults. I think that could be a good starting point.

Next, I recommend Wendy Ulrich's talk "Believest Thou" that she gave at a FAIR conference. 2005 “Believest thou…?”: Faith, Cognitive Dissonance, and the Psychology of Religious Experience « FAIR In that talk she discusses not what to believe, but the process of belief itself. I think you will find it interesting. Cognitive dissonance applies to everyone, religious or not .

Finally, I suggest you spend some time at FAIR. I particularly like their podcasts. Recently I have been listening to them, and all the issues your raised (except abortion) are addressed there at length. Also you might enjoy my friend Josh's blog. He readily admits his choice is not for everyone, but his is an amazing story of love...not just in his marraige, but the unconditional love shown by his parents. The Weed

About abortion, I understand that you don't want to tell someone else what to do with their body. I don't want to argue with you about this, since I have never seen that help. So I will limit my comment to this...pro-choice supporters are concerned for the woman (who had the choice whether or not to have sex*, and whether or not to use birth control) and pro-life supporters are concerned for the child who gets no choice at all...

Be sure and tell me what you think of Wendy Ulrich.

*church policy allows for abortion in cases of rape, or when the mother's life is endangered.

Edited November 27, 2012 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest]

One question you need to answer - if you don't believe in the basic truths of the Church - that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God - then why do you want to join a Church you don't think is true? Because, if Joseph Smith is not a prophet, then the Church is false. And joining a false Church who tells you what you're doing is bad merely for the reason that you want to belong somewhere, is doing more harm to your psyche than good.

Nobody here can convince you it is true. So, that's the only thing that you need to do right now. Forget gay marriage, forget abortion, forget polygamy, forget coffee for now - those are questions that have very easy answers if you have a testimony of the truth of the restored gospel.

So, this is my advice - get a Book of Mormon. Then honestly, sincerely, diligently, humbly ask the Holy Spirit to guide you as you read it. If after you read it, you feel that it is true, then it follows that Joseph Smith who brought forth the restoration of the gospel through the second witness of the Book of Mormon is a true prophet of God.

The rest of your questions follow - if the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith is a prophet of God then the Church is true.. and therefore, it follows that the doctrines of the Church is true. When you're looking at an event - you can always spin the story to go one way or the other. Who do you believe? You believe the version of the story that goes with what you know to be true through the guidance of the Holy Spirit - not the story told by some random guys on the internet.

[MarginOfError]

There are three major themes of discontent within me. The first is political and social. I believe in gay marriage (I have a lot of gay friends and believe that they are the same as you and I in every way -- except for one gene).

I'll disagree with you here. I don't think it is one gene that separates gay from straight. I believe it is a collection of genes. But in principle I agree with you.

As for my political opinions on gay marriage, I abstain from voting. I believe that marriage was ordained of God to be between man and woman. Some think it is unfair of me to believe that while also believing that there is a very strong genetic component to sexual orientation. Well, lots of things in life are unfair. But I'm willing to trust the Christ will be able to judge people by their thoughts, actions, and hearts with a perfect understanding of the difficulties and challenges presented within their genes.

So, for me, it's an issue of I believe that marriage was ordained of God to be between man and woman, but I'm not comfortable casting a vote that holds the rest of society to my religious belief. (I'm sure we could talk this over a lot more, but I won't right now. You're welcome to send me a private message if you would like).

I believe women are equal to men and should be treated as such (referring to priesthood positions).

I have ever-evolving opinions on this, and I tend to go back and forth on how I feel about it. I get where you're coming from. Quite honestly, there will be days I agree with you and days I don't. Whether or not women hold the offices in the priesthood, I will agree that they should have a more prominent role in the leadership and development of the membership.

And, perhaps worst of all, I'm pro-choice.

Hey, me too! It isn't really a bad thing because....

Of course, personally, I would never take part in that,

This is what is important.

but I don't feel like I have the authority to tell others what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

I feel a lot of this, but I also feel strongly about some other issues on this topic. Again, complicated, messy, not always consistent, but it's how I feel.

The second is in regard to Joseph Smith. My image of him growing up and my knowledge now of who he really was are hard to reconcile. He performed witchcraft, basically, scrying with rocks and telling others he could find fortunes for them through the power of these stones. He was eventually indicted for fraud and all of that stopped. Then, there's polygamy, an act I don't really have a problem with -- the one thing that bothered me was Joseph's secrecy about it in Nauvoo. It just seems disingenuous. (There's more, much of which has to do with Brigham Young, but I digress...)

I'd recommend reading Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman. It was a fascinating book that put a lot of these oddities about Joseph Smith in context of the time period. What I have come away with in my studies of Smith is that he was genuinely committed to serving the Lord, but he didn't always know the best way to do it. I believe that in some ways, the Lord tolerated some of Smith's weirdness while trying to help him develop the confidence of a prophet. When I started to see it this way, my view of God as a compassionate and loving person became very strong and comforting.

Brigham Young...yeah, he's another can of worms. But I feel about him pretty similarly. He was a man committed to God, but that didn't stop all of his failings from rearing their heads from time to time (nor do they stop mine).

The third is my own worthiness. Of course, we are all sinners, but I'm not even close to the less-sinful place that members inhabit. I drink (and like) coffee, tea, and alcohol. I've smoked weed and cigarettes. I lived with a long-term boyfriend and have had pre-marital sex. I swear, use the lord's name in vain,

I'm going to be brutally honest in how I feel about this:

Meh.

It's up to you to decide what you do and do not want to change about yourself. As long as you accept that some opportunities in the Church may not be open to you based on your decisions, do what you want. If you don't want to give up coffee, then don't give up coffee (although, I will encourage you to give up cigarettes).

The reason I say this is simple--I believe that if you begin to come to church, study your scriptures, and develop a relationship with your Savior through prayer and service, you will find yourself wanting to do things differently in your life so that you can enjoy some of the blessings of the gospel (eg, temple attendance). I don't say that in a manipulative sense. I just believe that's how it tends to work.

So, as far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to come to church, participate in activities, share what you are learning in your gospel study, and give back to the community if you're doing all of those things or if you're not. I think the church is a better place with you there either way.

and pass judgement where I shouldn't.

Stick around a while. you'll fit right in here

The only thing that keeps my opinion of myself above water is that other than that, I'm a good person. I genuinely love others and want to help them; I try to be nice and supportive to friends, family, acquaintances, and strangers.

This I applaud and hope you will continue.

All of this (and if you've read this far, God bless you) leads me to my ultimate dilemma:

I want to come back, but I want to do it right and know I'm doing it for the right reasons, not just nostalgia or a pandering to my internal suspicions about purpose and death.

What do I do?

There's only one thing you need to do to come back to the church the right way--walk in the door.

Fair warning--graciously accepting people that walk through the door is a lot harder than walking through the door, so you might face some challenges in establishing your presence. We'll be here to help you through those struggles. But remember, those who give and serve are those who get easiest acceptance into the church. Throw yourself into helping with activities, contributing to discussions in Sunday School, and asking questions.

The Church is a place of healing and growth. It is not supposed to be a place for simple affirmation.

I feel like I'm in a bubble, cut off from everything (probably a lot to do with the meds). And I'm jaded, jaded and cynical. Much of it has to do with childhood trauma and having to be an adult at a young age, but perhaps it is also my surroundings and the friends I hang out with. I tried going to a Catholic church, but it felt empty. Praying feels empty -- like I'm talking to air. The members I knew and loved have either transferred wards or I feel like I can't talk to them. I also feel uncomfortable talking with my family about it (only my mom and my brother are really still active). On top of that, anytime anything that could even hint at the existence of God or the truth of the doctrine occurs I immediately assign it to something else: placebo effect, imagination, desperation, etc.

I'm completely at a loss, guys, but I feel like a part of me is tugging me in the church's direction.

Anything you think might be helpful, I'd welcome. Thank you in advance.

You're looking at implementing a pretty drastic lifestyle change. That's going to be hard. It's a daunting task. So it doesn't surprise me you feel the way you do.

Some 2,000 years ago, earthquakes and storms struck the people of the Lamanite and Nephite nations. The destruction was terrible and was followed by three days of darkness so thick, that no light could be produced. In that darkness, people wept, they mourned, and they were scared. After some time in that awful darkness, they heard the voice of Christ. Christ spoke with sadness that so many had refused to repent. He then addressed those who had survived, saying, "come unto me ye ends of the earth, and be saved."

It sounds like you're in your darkness right now. And I can imagine an emotional and caring Christ looking into your darkness and saying, "Come unto me, Mischa, and be healed." it's an invitation worth taking.

[RMGuy]

Anatess gave excellent, and I mean EXCELLENT advice. I would add a few of my insights if I may, and I recognize that not all will see things this way.

For me, faith is a wonderful tool to bridge the gap and darkness where evidence and knowledge do not exist. If I have faith in something that is true the evidence (when discovered) supports that faith. If my faith was vain (in things not true) then the evidence (when discovered) does not support it. I have had experiences with both in the church.

Second, agency and individualism are great things. You are free to be liberal in the church (Just ask Senator Reid), you are free to be pro-choice...otherwise my very independent thinking daughter would be in trouble (we disagree on this issue), and you can support gay marriage (welcome to the club). However, you have to recognize that there are some limits to some of those things. You can't advocate for gay marriage in Sunday School, and my daughter can't teach her Mia Maid class about why they should be pro-choice. Some people chafe under those "rules" because they seem them as restrictions. Others see it as being obedient but using their agency to have a differing opinion. Sometimes that navigation is not easy....but it is possible, and your opinions will likely change over time on many issues. Don't paint yourself into a corner. Good luck in your journey.

-RM

[Just_A_Guy]

I believe that if you begin to come to church, study your scriptures, and develop a relationship with your Savior through prayer and service, you will find yourself wanting to do things differently in your life so that you can enjoy some of the blessings of the gospel (eg, temple attendance). I don't say that in a manipulative sense. I just believe that's how it tends to work.

This.

Ideally, you'd also follow Anatess' suggestion and immediately start directly seeking a testimony of the Book of Mormon. But if not . . . On the whole, I would venture to suggest that you might find yourself better off attending church, than not.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Mischa - welcome! Here's something I wrote about my own journey - it addresses some of your issues.

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/22248-why-do-you-believe.html#post376480

[mrmarklin]

Hello, everyone.

The only thing that keeps my opinion of myself above water is that other than that, I'm a good person. I genuinely love others and want to help them; I try to be nice and supportive to friends, family, acquaintances, and strangers.

QUOTE]

This is the essence of the gospel.

Many people achieve the outward signs (no drugs, no sex, no rock n roll:)), but few achieve the real essence.

As has been said before, just walk through the door.

No interviews are based on political opinions, so I would disregard those as any sort of barrier to your re entry into the church. All else can be repented of. Christ came among the sinners, and anyone trying to change his life for the better is very welcome in the church.

[Mischa]

Thank you, all, for your beautiful and inspiring words. Some of them brought tears to my eyes.

You seem to be wonderful, supportive people and I wish you all the best.

Stay strong and faithful for the rest of us, alright?