RMGuy

Silver or Gold Eagles according to budget.

I'm sorry Anatess. I hope your friendship remains strong. It sounds like they were and are good people.

TFP, it reminds me of a Yogi'ism....which is a good thing :)

Agreed.

I included myself TFP.

I included myself TFP.

So much Christ like love, compassion, and understanding has gone on in this discussion that I am moved to tears. What wonderful examples of the Lords church we all are.

I fully support the concept of religious freedom. As such I fully support the brethren's right to make this policy change. I also believe in personal agency and accountability. After a lot of thought and prayer, I cannot in good conscience personally lend my support to this policy. I am comfortable standing in front of the judgment bar and accounting for my own thoughts and actions. I also respect those whose thoughts are different.

Ok, now that's funny :)

I believe that not all Mormons believe the same things. :)

Excellent news.

I like to judge my movies the same way I try to judge people. On the content of their character as opposed to the label on the box.

As I read that assignment it appears that there are a list of statements including one that says "There is a God" and another that says "The ugliest sea creature is the manatee." The directions then indicate the students are to indicate whether the statement is either a factual claim (FC), Commonplace Assertion (CA), or Opinion (O). Based on those directions I'm not entirely sure how we get the idea that these students were made to literally deny the existence of God.

TFP, That is what many members of the church believe that the purpose of the church is, yet that may not be the reason that a particular individual is a member. If you are willing to write them off because they don't hold to that same ideal then I suppose that is your right to do so. All I am saying is that when we tell individuals that this is why they should attend church and their need or reason for belonging is different we should not be surprised when they choose to disassociate.

No.

Eowyn, That is a wonderful question. I wish I knew the answer to that one. I'm not sure that meeting each individuals need is possible, but I still think we should try in most instances. I think that probably falls into at least two of those categories you mention: being a friend and nurturing with the good word of God. I don't think we disagree on this at all. I agree with you as well that covenants are more important than comfort. All I am saying is that if we want to reach out to rescue we need to understand what need that particular individual was not having met by their activity in the church. If it was a situation where they were socially converted then felt like they had no friends, then until we meet that need they aren't likely to return to the fold regardless of how true it is. There are times when we can't (and in some cases probably shouldn't) meet their perceived needs, but I really do think the reason people stop attending is because there is something that they are looking for from their church attendance (acceptance, love, help, forgiveness, knowledge, service, understanding, improvement) and when the bell rings after the 3 hour block they don't feel like they got that. Do that too many weeks in a row and they leave. Did that help to clarify a bit?

Another thought I have had on the matter: Why do people stop going to church? Because their needs are not met. We have had some discussion in this very thread about what those needs are. For some it is social, for others spiritual, a sense of community, an ability to commune with the divine, the atonement, a testimony of a living prophet, revealed scripture, and a host of other reasons. I would like to hypothesize that the reason why an individual stops attending is because their needs (whatever those are) are no longer being met by attendance at church. We can belittle individuals because their testimony isn't as strong as ours, isn't the same as ours, or isn't rooted in quite the same way ours is, but if the church isn't meeting their needs they will stop coming. It really is that simple. Now whether or not the church SHOULD address those needs is another question entirely. But the reason people stop coming through the doors on Sunday is the same reason they stop shopping at Home Depot and switch to Menards. The other place better meets their perceived needs...it could be price, it could be customer service, it could be location or any number of other things. We can blame the customer all we like. We can chalk it up to them being offended, not being really converted, being influenced by bad advertising or anti-mormon websites etc., but if you want them to come back through those doors next Sunday then we better identify what their needs are and work to address those. My $.02

Eminem and you'll never DJ again :)

I believe that faith is a necessary component for individuals to operate on in the absence of knowledge. IE, my faith bridges the gaps that my knowledge fails to fill. If I have faith in something and later come to a knowledge of that thing that verifies my faith then my faith has been justified in that thing. If I have faith in something and later come to a knowledge of the fallacy of that thing then my faith in that thing was vain. There are many things I had a faith in as a younger man. Many of them have been verified through my experiences and evidences and so now I know those things to be true. I had faith in many things as a younger man that through my experiences and evidences have been proven false so I no longer hold to those items with faith. There are far, far more items that I have not been able to conclusively resolve and so I cling to my faith in those things. Is that blind faith? I don't know...but it works for me.

I would have loved to see individuals called from Africa, South America, Asia...but it's not my church.

A friend of mine (not a member of the church, in fact not even religious so far as I know) was just the other day talking about the decline of modesty in the world today. Interestingly, he was not talking about about clothing styles at all. He was talking about the "selfie" craze that photographs, markets, and promotes themselves none-stop.

That's cool. I have an MO. :).

I googled ponderize Eowyn. 4 hours ago the clothing website was the number one response to that Google query. It has since fallen to page two. But your prejudice against the messenger is duly noted.

Your welcome Eowyn. I just like truth and full disclosure. Google. Answering life's questions since 1998. :)

I like the fact that his kids set up a clothing company and trademarked the word a week ago so they could capitalize on the market. Of course, they state profits will go to the missionary fund, but it still strikes me as icky.