Giftcards, Tithing, Misc.

[Bini]

I understand that tithing is based on your income. So a few questions and not necessarily related.

• What if you are unemployed, don't get an income, and rely on someone else? What do you tithe?
• What if you are unemployed, don't get an income but have been given giftcards with big sums of money on it? Target has a $5000 giftcard. Does this simply not count in terms of tithing?
• Can you still receive or renew a temple recommend if you cannot (different from "won't") pay an "honest tithe" (at all or in full)?

[Guest]

What if you are unemployed, don't get an income, and rely on someone else? What do you tithe?

Did you get an increase? If not, then you don't have anything to tithe.

If you're a stay-at-home mom with the husband earning your increase, your husband's tithes is your tithe too.

If you're a child living off your parents' house and pantry, their tithe is your tithe too.

If you're a college kid living on your own but dependent on your parents' allowance, you may tithe on that allowance.

What if you are unemployed, don't get an income but have been given giftcards with big sums of money on it? Target has a $5000 giftcard. Does this simply not count in terms of tithing?

It doesn't matter in what form your increase comes in. If your increase came from a harvest of bananas, you tithe 1/10 of the bananas. If it came as a Target gift card, you tithe on that giftcard.

Can you still receive or renew a temple recommend if you cannot (different from "won't") pay an "honest tithe" (at all or in full)?

The question is - "Have you paid an honest tithe?". It is not "How much tithes have you paid?". If an honest tithe is 0, then an honest tithe is 0 and you get to answer YES on the question. If you paid 0 tithes because you spent the money to buy your dad's life-saving cancer medicine, you get to answer NO and discuss it with the bishop to see if you still qualify for a temple recommend.

Edited January 14, 2013 by anatess

[Bini]

Thanks for your input.

What if you are unemployed, don't get an income but have been given giftcards with big sums of money on it? Target has a $5000 giftcard. Does this simply not count in terms of tithing?

It doesn't matter in what form your increase comes in. If your increase came from a harvest of bananas, you tithe 1/10 of the bananas. If it came as a Target gift card, you tithe on that giftcard.

Can you still receive or renew a temple recommend if you cannot (different from "won't") pay an "honest tithe" (at all or in full)?

The question is - "Have you paid an honest tithe?". It is not "How much tithes have you paid?". If an honest tithe is 0, then an honest tithe is 0 and you get to answer YES on the question.

How do you tithe on a giftcard? And regarding the last statement, so if you cannot pay tithe, that's passable? Okay, I tend to agree with that.

[Guest]

Thanks for your input.

How do you tithe on a giftcard? And regarding the last statement, so if you cannot pay tithe, that's passable? Okay, I tend to agree with that.

How to tithe on a giftcard? Same way you tithe any other increase. Figure out how much is 1/10th of the value of the increase and pay that.

If you cannot pay the tithe due to some reason or other, the bishop/stake president gets to evaluate this on an individual basis and decide if your efforts are sufficient to get a temple recommend, or if you need help to work out your financials so you can start paying tithes before getting a recommend, or if you have to go through repentance before getting a recommend.

[Bini]

I saw that you edited your original post and added a tidbit.

Can you still receive or renew a temple recommend if you cannot (different from "won't") pay an "honest tithe" (at all or in full)?

The question is - "Have you paid an honest tithe?". It is not "How much tithes have you paid?". If an honest tithe is 0, then an honest tithe is 0 and you get to answer YES on the question. If you paid 0 tithes because you spent the money to buy your dad's life-saving cancer medicine, you get to answer NO and discuss it with the bishop to see if you still qualify for a temple recommend.

I find this interesting. Not saying it's right or wrong, just that it's an interesting statement/concept.

This additional question is open to anyone. Is purchasing necessary items or paying bills secondary to tithing? Do you tithe first, and forget diapers/food for your child or medicine for a sickly (possibly incurable) family member? I realise faith is a big part of tithing but in some instances, such as the listed, one must be practical as well. Is this a case of "use common sense" and the Lord knows what is in your heart?

[Bini]

How to tithe on a giftcard? Same way you tithe any other increase. Figure out how much is 1/10th of the value of the increase and pay that.

Alright, I'm following you now.

[pam]

So what if you have no income, have no money coming in and someone gives you that $5000 giftcard from Target? With no income, how would you tithe on that? You can't draw money from the giftcard. Just thought I'd throw that out.

[Guest]

Is purchasing necessary items or paying bills secondary to tithing?

Yes. Nothing is more important than building the kingdom of God.

Do you tithe first, and forget diapers/food for your child or medicine for a sickly (possibly incurable) family member? I realise faith is a big part of tithing but in some instances, such as the listed, one must be practical as well. Is this a case of "use common sense" and the Lord knows what is in your heart?

Bini, you are looking at tithing as an expense. It is not.

A healthier way of looking at household financials is as follows:

You have Earnings. Then you have Tithes. Then you have Taxes. Then you have Savings. Then you have Expenses.

Then you categorize every dollar in your financials in each of those buckets. They're not interchangeable. For example, when you're trying to figure out if you can buy diapers today, you don't look at your Taxes bucket. Similarly, you don't look at your Tithing bucket. Because, diapers belong in the Expenses bucket. Financial trouble happens when you mix-and-match the buckets.

Now, a lot of people will take/borrow from one bucket (usually the Savings bucket) to pay for stuff in the Expenses bucket. That just means that you are adjusting the amount of your Savings for that specific time to make it smaller while making your Expenses bucket bigger. Which is fine because the characteristics of a Savings bucket is that it is not a fixed amount. In a similar manner, if you find your Expenses smaller for that specific time, you may decide to adjust your Savings and make it bigger because Expenses and Savings buckets are not fixed amounts. This won't work with the Tithing or Taxes buckets because they are fixed amounts.

So, to answer your question, if your Expenses bucket requires to be expanded due to certain emergencies, can you take the money from the Tithing bucket? The answer is - if you have squeezed every last drop of blood from the Expenses and Savings bucket and you have completely no other recourse, you may go to the Bishop and ask him for help on how to figure out your financials. The tithing bucket goes to the bishop in the same manner that the taxes bucket go to the government.

Edited January 14, 2013 by anatess

[estradling75]

So what if you have no income, have no money coming in and someone gives you that $5000 giftcard from Target? With no income, how would you tithe on that? You can't draw money from the giftcard. Just thought I'd throw that out.

Doesn't seem like you'd be able to.... So it seems like you'd have to say no and then explain why. Chances are if you are at Zero income the bishop should already know and be understanding on what your limits are.

Since the principals behind tithing are faith and sacrifice... the bishop might call it good if he sees that you are understanding and living the principals as best as you can.

[Guest]

So what if you have no income, have no money coming in and someone gives you that $5000 giftcard from Target? With no income, how would you tithe on that? You can't draw money from the giftcard. Just thought I'd throw that out.

If the bishop agrees, I can suggest buying $500 worth of whatever things the Primary/YM/YW need that are sold in Target... and have the bishop take the $500 out of Church Budget and move it to my tithing.

Edited January 14, 2013 by anatess

[estradling75]

Bini,

Please understand that the only formula we have been given for figuring out tithing is 10% of our increase. There is no official formula or forms or calculations beyond that... There are however lots of personal opinions and methods and how they do its out there. They have no more weight then any other personal opinion.

What we can do is focus on the underlying principals and we have more guidance on those. As I mentioned above Faith and Sacrifice are underlying Tithing and we have lots of guidance on those. So ask yourself when you are figuring out your 10%

Are if figuring it out in a Spirit of Faith, or in a Spirit of Fear? When you are calculating your Tithing Sacrificing are you doing it as cheerful giver? Or are you doing so grudgingly and feeling compelled?

Both those questions have a right and wrong answer. And if we find ourselves with the wrong answer then that means we need to work on it. (Everyone has something they must work on even if it isn't tithing, so don't feel bad about it, just work on it.)

[Vort]

What if you are unemployed, don't get an income, and rely on someone else? What do you tithe?

You tithe on your increase. If you have no increase, you pay no tithing.

What if you are unemployed, don't get an income but have been given giftcards with big sums of money on it? Target has a $5000 giftcard. Does this simply not count in terms of tithing?

In my mind, this constitutes an increase. I would try to tithe this.

Can you still receive or renew a temple recommend if you cannot (different from "won't") pay an "honest tithe" (at all or in full)?

No. For example, if someone does not tithe because his/her spouse refuses to allow it, that person might have all the sympathy and support imaginable from his/her leaders, but will probably not be given a temple recommend. (I speak from direct knowledge, though in my case N=1, so my generalization might not be accurate.)

[Wingnut]

I don't tithe on gifts, particularly plastic ones.

[dahlia]

I had some massive family financial issues over the past few months. I initially helped where I could, but the demands for money just kept coming.

Now you-all know that I am not a 'go to the bishop with everything' kinda gal, but this really bothered me. This was family and they were having real issues (tho I believe entirely of their own making). Part of me wanted to help them, which would have affected my tithing, part of me felt they needed to stand on their own and take the hits.

The bishop counseled me to continue to be a tithe payer. Interestingly, he said something that I had been thinking - that things often aren't as bad as people make them out to be. I felt this was true for my relatives. They were having problems, but there were ways to deal with them - not pleasant, but available 'outs,' as it were.

I felt better and kept my money in the bank. The thing that kills me is that I have done some form of food storage since before I was LDS, I save, have a clean credit record, and don't pay more in housing and a car than I can afford. And because I do these things and have 'extra' money, they think I should give it to them and they don't do anything to help themselves.

This probably isn't the best reason to continue tithing, but at this point, I'd rather give it to the Church than to my relatives.