Who Do You Say Jesus Is?

[a-train]

We recently had a lesson in our Spencer W. Kimball book in Priesthood/Relief Society about Jesus Christ. In listening to those in my Elders Quorum and in thinking about the lesson, something hit me. Does the membership of the Church realize that JESUS IS GOD? This is something that is taught extremely well by the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine & Covenants, and one who really studies the Bible deeply will be unable to miss it. The General Authorites have taught it thoroughly since day one, but I noticed that this seemed to make some people look a little uncomfortable. They kept wanting to say He is the Son of God. Saying He is God gave pause, hesitation, and I hope not disbelief.

I understand that their is the problem posed to us now by the middle-aged creeds of the Apostasy concerning a God that is neither three nor one, nor here nor there, but everywhere, without body, parts, or passions, etc. I see that we don't want to confuse anyone with saying that both Jesus and His Father are God, but THEY ARE! Perhaps I am having the LORD remind me of this a lot lately. He has been saying to me: Be still and know that I am GOD.

Thoughts? Does the average Joe Mormon see Christ as who is really is: Jesus the Christ, the Eternal God?

-a-train

[CrimsonKairos]

Well we don't pray to Jesus, even though he is a God. We pray to God our Father, in the name of God our Brother (Jesus), through the power of God the Spirit.

I don't know anyone who's had a hard time admitting Jesus is a God. We just don't pray to him, so perhaps that's why he's viewed in a different light as God our Father. I'm not sure.

As for the "doctrine" of the trinity...it's largely due to the "Comma Johanneum," a.k.a. John's Comma, a hotly disputed and historically shady piece of scripture. Read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

[MaidservantX]

Jesus Christ is also my Father through the covenants I have made. I don't like to use the word 'God' that much at all, although since it is so handy and ubiquitous, I do use it of course plenty enough. Instead, though, I always say who I mean: I say 'Heavenly Father' or I say 'Christ' or 'Savior'. 'God' is used in our latter-day scriptures, of course, so this is just something for myself. I have pondered deeply that the GOD that we worship is indeed the FATHER and the SON (which individual is manifesting what doesn't matter for this particular point) -- isn't this amazing? This is the deepest calling that God has and that we worship him as or for -- our Father. It isn't tangential -- it's central. In another recent thread, myself and others said several words about the etymology of the word 'God', and I would refer any readers of this post to that -- was it under 'Was Jesus Married'? I think I say that 'God' simply (?) means Mighty One -- it is an honor word, the most amazing honor word, but in my opinion doesn't give much other crucial information about who and what God is and his nature and what he does. As I have pondered and asked God about his godness over the years, I learned that 'God' is an office (and a Presidency, I might add); also it refers to a soul condition (celestial exaltation) that, as we know, there is an opportunity for all his offspring to attain to (through the merits of the Savior's atonement). Also, we of course know that all priesthood authority and power on this planet and in this world organization is administered directly by Jesus Christ (God). He has received this priesthood delegation and power from his (our) Father.

[Dr T]

I have a different view of Jesus. I see him as eternally existant as God, one personage of the Holy Trinity, someone that emptied himself and took on a human nature, dwelt among us, was crucified, died and then buried. He rose in victory over death and provided me salvation and reunification with the Father by wiping my sins away. He is the creator of the heavens and the earth. I am his creation.

[Traveler]

It does not matter how anyone honors Jesus the Christ with their mouth or what they say of him with their lips; it is in obedience to his commandments and in proving loyal to his covenants that we take upon us his name and worship him. There are no "eternal points" granted for quoting scripture and making claims about Jesus - the only thing that counts is covenanting through the ordinances and obeying the commandments of Christ.

The Traveler

[Maureen]

It does not matter how anyone honors Jesus the Christ with their mouth or what they say of him with their lips; it is in obedience to his commandments and in proving loyal to his covenants that we take upon us his name and worship him. There are no "eternal points" granted for quoting scripture and making claims about Jesus - the only thing that counts is covenanting through the ordinances and obeying the commandments of Christ.

But if it doesn't matter who or what Jesus is (our perception of him). Why would it matter that we obey and worship him, if it doesn't matter that we know he is God?

M.

[Latter Days Guy]

<div class='quotemain'>

It does not matter how anyone honors Jesus the Christ with their mouth or what they say of him with their lips; it is in obedience to his commandments and in proving loyal to his covenants that we take upon us his name and worship him. There are no "eternal points" granted for quoting scripture and making claims about Jesus - the only thing that counts is covenanting through the ordinances and obeying the commandments of Christ.

But if it doesn't matter who or what Jesus is (our perception of him). Why would it matter that we obey and worship him, if it doesn't matter that we know he is God?

M.

He's not saying that it doesn't mater who or what Jesus is, he is saying it doesn't matter what people say or how they honour him unless they actually mean it and live by his teaching/commandments.

[kindoman]

I believe in the Trinity, but then again I am not Mormon. I believe that is very important to know who Jesus is. I believe that the Jehovah's Witness are dammed to hell for believing that He is just a mere angle.

[Traveler]

I believe in the Trinity, but then again I am not Mormon. I believe that is very important to know who Jesus is. I believe that the Jehovah's Witness are dammed to hell for believing that He is just a mere angle.

It is my understanding that G-d will judge man based on works. For example: if a man will forgive those that trespass against them then G-d will forgive them. Where in scripture does it say that G-d damns Jehovah's Witnesses to Hell (or anyone for that matter) that is forgiving of all those that trespass against them?

The Traveler

[a-train]

Mark 16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Believeth not what? Look at verse 15, "the Gospel".

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 "For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth."

D&C 49:5: "Thus saith the Lord; for I am God, and have sent mine Only Begotten Son into the world for the redemption of the world, and have decreed that he that receiveth him shall be saved, and he that receiveth him not shall be damned —"

Moses 5:15 "And as many as believed in the Son, and repented of their sins, should be saved; and as many as believed not and repented not, should be damned; and the words went forth out of the mouth of God in a firm decree; wherefore they must be fulfilled."

Joseph Smith said: "I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear[ed] of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief. They found fault with Jesus Christ because He said He was the Son of God, and made Himself equal with God." (Teachings p 374)

Ouch, rough! Indeed, damnation is a result of lack of faith in Christ. Where our belief ends, damnation begins.

I guess my point in asking the initial question wasn't to start any argument, but I think that all too often, semantics get in the way of our reaching out to people and sharing the Gospel. I think we as members of the Church need to have no fear in talking of Christ as God when our own scriptures do.

We have around us many people that speak of Him as God. When one leads a group in prayer another will suddenly exclaim: "Thankyou Jesus!" mid prayer. At first, my initial instinct was to correct this behaviour, but I remembered the LORD's words: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." (John 13:20)

The antis continually feed them with the idea that we aren't Christian and if they see some hesitation in us to call Him God, it reinforces this idea. We should just not worry about giving the wrong impression of the Trinity. Who understands that crazy creed anyway? We all know He is God, we just need to be more forthcoming about it.

Also, remember milk before meat (1 Cor. 3:2)?

Indeed, "Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God" (BoM Title Page) and we need not be ashamed to take upon us his name. (Alma 46:21)

Praise the LORD!

God Bless

-a-train