A Lost of Honour

[JimmiGerman]

Well, as a German, I would like to ask for what makes Germany a nation. I don't feel like living in a nation. Do you feel like a man who could even hate his own country?

[pam]

I can't speak for anyone in another country only how I feel about my own country.

I LOVE the United States. I may not like the direction it is taking but I still have extreme loyalties to it and can't imagine permanently moving to another country.

[RipplecutBuddha]

There are a lot of things about America that I don't like right now. Much of it has to do with the Federal Government and what it has become as opposed to what it was at the beginning and what was intended by the framers of this nation.

However, like Pam, I love the country itself and what it represents, I can't think of leaving this country.

[pam]

There are a lot of things about America that I don't like right now. Much of it has to do with the Federal Government and what it has become as opposed to what it was at the beginning and what was intended by the framers of this nation.

However, like Pam, I love the country itself and what it represents, I can't think of leaving this country.

That's exactly where I was coming from. The direction this country has taken.

[Guest]

Well, as a German, I would like to ask for what makes Germany a nation. I don't feel like living in a nation. Do you feel like a man who could even hate his own country?

I'm not German but I work for a German company so most of my co-workers are German. I have several German aunts and uncles as well as family members who migrated to Germany from the Philippines.

What makes a nation is the history of its people that builds the cultural fabric of society. I have high regard for the Germans I know. They are a people where excellence is a natural inclination. But, it is different from the Japanese that I know where excellence is deemed as a product of intense labor. The Germans demand excellence as a state of being. So, they may take an entire month off of work and still maintain that level of excellence whereas their Japanese counterparts would panic at the thought of taking an entire month off.

And Berlin is just... awesome.

No nation is perfect. Every single nation go through ups and downs. It is part of history. Patriotism to a nation, therefore, is when a citizen becomes part of the growth of a nation and an agent for change for the better and the defense of what is good in its cultural fabric.

The Philippine National Anthem describes this very aptly:

Beautiful land of love, o land of light,

In thine embrace 'tis rapture to lie,

But it is glory ever, when thou art wronged,

For us, thy sons to suffer and die.

And I sing that song knowing that there are so many things in the Philippines that are just plain bad.

[NeuroTypical]

A nation exists because the people living in them believe it exists. Change the belief, you change the nation. You can disagree about everything else, but if you all agree where the border is, then the nation exists.

Every nation has three things - a political structure, an economy, and a military. If you're missing one or more of those, you're not a nation, you're a smaller part of some other nation.

[Roseslipper]

I can't speak for anyone in another country only how I feel about my own country.

I LOVE the United States. I may not like the direction it is taking but I still have extreme loyalties to it and can't imagine permanently moving to another country.

i feel the sameway pam does...........

[Traveler]

Well, as a German, I would like to ask for what makes Germany a nation. I don't feel like living in a nation. Do you feel like a man who could even hate his own country?

Hmmmmm. Growing up I idolized Dr. Verner von Braun. It was him that inspired me to be a scientist. Currently one of the most popular speakers and leaders in the LDS Church is Dieter F Uchtdorf. Of course both of these great men are German. In my profession I work with many different nationalities - but I must admit that I am always the most impressed working with the Germans and their unparalleled precision and exactness.

When Russia was ahead of the USA in the space race there was a saying that it was not because the Russian scientists are better than the USA scientist but that the German scientist obtained by the Russians at the end of WWII are better than the German scientists obtained by the USA. No doubt that the sciences are where they are today because of the unparalleled contributions from Germany.

The Traveler

[Vort]

Hmmmmm. Growing up I idolized Dr. Verner von Braun. It was him that inspired me to be a scientist.

Apropos of nothing in particular, Werner von Braun was a Nazi, brought into this country under our nation's efforts to get all the good Nazi scientists before the Soviet Union did. My understanding is that von Braun had no particular objection to the Nazi Party's goals.

[Traveler]

Apropos of nothing in particular, Werner von Braun was a Nazi, brought into this country under our nation's efforts to get all the good Nazi scientists before the Soviet Union did. My understanding is that von Braun had no particular objection to the Nazi Party's goals.

Dr. von Braun would never been taken out of Germany, at the risk of his life had he not turned.

The Traveler

[Vort]

Dr. von Braun would never been taken out of Germany, at the risk of his life had he not turned.

Hardly. von Braun and his colleagues surrendered to the Americans in 1945 because they were afraid of being taken prisoner by the Soviets.

[JimmiGerman]

Apropos of nothing in particular, Werner von Braun was a Nazi, brought into this country under our nation's efforts to get all the good Nazi scientists before the Soviet Union did. My understanding is that von Braun had no particular objection to the Nazi Party's goals.

As far as I know he was inspired and nearly possessed by the challenge of space traveling and its technology, but of course there is no doubt that he was at least indirectly serving a bad thing developing and realizing the Nazis' destructive weapons (V1 and V2 missiles), but I don't know if he really had no objection to the Nazi Party's goals, and I would say that many weren't conscious of the dimension of those goals or they were dispelling this knowledge.

[NeuroTypical]

Apparently this is a very, very old argument. Everything I know about WvB comes from

from the '50's or '60's.

Gather round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun

A man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience

Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown

"Ha, Nazi schmazi," says Wernher von Braun

Don't say that he's hypocritical

Say rather that he's apolitical

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down

That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun

Some have harsh words for this man of renown

But some think our attitude should be one of gratitude

Like the widows and cripples in old London town

Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun

You too may be a big hero

Once you've learned to count backwards to zero

"In German oder English I know how to count down

Und I'm learning Chinese," says Wernher von Braun