Doctrinal And Scriptural Mastery

[JimJohnson]

How important for our salvation is mastery of gospel doctrines and the scriptures? Has the emphasis on this changed in the Church since I joined in 1963?

[Guest Doctrine]

I find that the mastery of the scriptures and the doctrine are very important to use and know, because with out them we are going off of what others are saying, and not searching the holy scriptures and following there teachings.

[Dravin]

What are we calling scriptural and doctrinal mastery? For instance, I'd say the ability to quickly flip open to a set of particular scriptures isn't particularly important. Likewise, if we're calling doctrinal mastery the ability to pull quotes from Doctrines of Salvation and/or other works in order to wax philosophical about various suppositions as one sometimes sees on this board it also is not particularly important. That said, understanding doctrine and scripture is important.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Dravin

[Anddenex]

How important for our salvation is mastery of gospel doctrines and the scriptures? Has the emphasis on this changed in the Church since I joined in 1963?

I am inline with Dravin regarding a person's personal interpretation regarding the phrase "mastery of gospel doctrines and the scriptures" and how important this is to our salvation.

The scriptures are essential to our salvation. Evidence within scripture is discovered when we read John 17: 3 and Lehi's dream. Without scripture we would not know God, nor Jesus Christ whom God hath sent.

I believe the emphasis has remained the same since 1820, since 1900, since 1963, and to the present; however, the efforts of the Church appear to continually seek a better way for members to learn and understand the scriptures. We are constantly told read and pray. We are constantly informed about Alma praying to know for himself, and the sons of Mosiah praying and reading the scriptures in order to teach with power and the spirit of revelation.

Written and personal scripture are essential to our salvation.

[Vort]

How important for our salvation is mastery of gospel doctrines and the scriptures? Has the emphasis on this changed in the Church since I joined in 1963?

Ultimately, it is of supreme importance. We must master the doctrines of the gospel, or we cannot be saved. However, I do not know that mastering all understanding of gospel doctrine or becoming a so-called "scriptorian" is of much, or any, importance at all in this life.

[skippy740]

Since the Savior taught and quoted from the scriptures... I would think that knowing and living by the teachings found in the scriptures would be rather important.

[Guest]

Scripture mastery is very important.

This is my version of mastery... I know it's in the scriptures and what it means according to modern prophets. I just can't tell you exactly what chapter and verse... I know how to google it though.

[Traveler]

How important for our salvation is mastery of gospel doctrines and the scriptures? Has the emphasis on this changed in the Church since I joined in 1963?

Very good question. I would compare the question to eating. Is it important to master the art of culinary arts of eating - especially eating the best prepared gourmet venues? Well for sure if one fails badly enough at eating they will die within 60 days or less. But the problem with eating is if you focus on eating only it is likely that one will start to eat for pleasure and for self. This seems to inevitably result in becoming overweight and lethargic.

But if one's primary focus is to be healthy and strong; one of the primary needs is to eat correctly become disciplined in eating good and healthy foods in the right proportions. But eating is not by any means the only thing - to be healthy and strong one must also follow a regiment of rigorous activity and exercise.

So I believe scriptural and doctrinal mastery is the equivalent of spiritual food. But as others have already stated, by focusing on the spiritual food rather than on spiritual health and strength is likely to render a person spiritually overweight and lethargic.

But if one's primary focus is to be spiritually healthy and strong; one of the primary needs is to eat correct spiritual food. But a spiritual diet is not by an means the only thing - to be spiritually healthy and strong one must also follow a regiment of rigorous spiritual activity and exercise.

BTW - I find it interesting that many of the prophets have also made this connection and correlation between eating good foods for physical health and studying the doctrines and scripture as spiritual food.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Scripture mastery is very important.

This is my version of mastery... I know it's in the scriptures and what it means according to modern prophets. I just can't tell you exactly what chapter and verse... I know how to google it though.

When I served as a missionary my mission president asked all the missionaries to memorize one scripture every day. If you just memorized where to find just one scripture every week - sadly within a year you would be considered the most or one of the most scriptural and doctrinal experts in your ward - perhaps even in your stake. Not that such should be a goal - but you will find often others will ask you (rather than Google) where to find a particular scripture - and in most cases you will know the answer. Heck if someone memorized just one scripture a year - by time they were my age they would be considered a scriptural expert by most members. Now I am going to quit this thought before someone thinks I am being critical of how many scriptures they personally have memorized.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Ultimately, it is of supreme importance. We must master the doctrines of the gospel, or we cannot be saved. However, I do not know that mastering all understanding of gospel doctrine or becoming a so-called "scriptorian" is of much, or any, importance at all in this life.

Can you quote a scripture to prove this thought?

The Traveler

[Vort]

Can you quote a scripture to prove this thought?

Which thought? That we ultimately master the doctrines to gain salvation? Or that becoming a "scriptorian" in this life is unimportant?

[Traveler]

Which thought? That we ultimately master the doctrines to gain salvation? Or that becoming a "scriptorian" in this life is unimportant?

Ether

A scripture that demonstrates that in this life we must ultimately master the doctrines to gain salvation.

Or

Since the term you used: "scriptorian" is not well defined in the English language - then I assume that any common use or interpretation of the idea is considered. For example, the art of personalizing scripture to one's particular circumstances.

Since you asked.

The Traveler

[Vort]

Which thought? That we ultimately master the doctrines to gain salvation? Or that becoming a "scriptorian" in this life is unimportant?

Ether

A scripture that demonstrates that in this life we must ultimately master the doctrines to gain salvation.

D&C 131:6, for starters.

Or

Since the term you used: "scriptorian" is not well defined in the English language - then I assume that any common use or interpretation of the idea is considered. For example, the art of personalizing scripture to one's particular circumstances.

My use of the word "scriptorian" is in reference to the original post. I thought my original usage was quite clear in this respect. If it's still unclear to you, let me know and I'll point it out.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I have been saying to some people lately, that just because someone quotes from scripture doesn't mean they are genuine.

When the emphasis becomes memorizing scripture rather than applying scripture then intentions become questionable. Context is important as well, given modern revelation. Otherwise, we would all be still stoning each other and telling the women to live by themselves when its their "time" and not to touch anything.

We need more warrior monks.

[Seminarysnoozer]

How important for our salvation is mastery of gospel doctrines and the scriptures? Has the emphasis on this changed in the Church since I joined in 1963?

D&C 46: "11 For all have not every agift given unto them; for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God.

12 To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby."

What is important for one's salvation is personal and should be directed by the spirit. The bottom line is to do what the Lord asks you to do.

But as warned in that chapter; " 8 Wherefore, beware lest ye are deceived; and that ye may not be deceived aseek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given;

9 For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments, and him that seeketh so to do; that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me, that ask and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts."

Scripture mastery has to be done with the right purpose, to edify the saints, not for a sign or to "know" (as in secular proof or a sign) the gospel is true but to strengthen one's faith and teach others.

[McLainDow]

I guess it depends on one's definition of Mastery. Do I believe that at my final judgement The Lord will quiz me on how many scriptures I have memorized and if I can recite the "Oath and the Covenant of the Priesthood" word for word, No I do not. Do I believe the Lord will be concerned with what I have become and studying and applying scripture to my life will help to become the best version of myself, yes, very much so.

[andypg]

For me, memorizing verses and passages isn't as important as understanding the scriptures. I have just (yesterday after conference) been getting back into my scriptures and it's amazing to see how what is written in the scriptures connect so perfectly with LDS doctrines and the words of the prophets, even when not explicitly stated in the passage. There are so many deeper meanings for us to find and relate and connect to the words of the modern prophets and our doctrine that I came away yesterday with the certainty that it is an ancient record, not a 19th century document.

That is what I consider scriptural mastery, seeing and understanding how the scriptures work together and how it relates and connects with doctrine and the prophets. Find the deeper meanings. They're there!

[Vort]

For me, memorizing verses and passages isn't as important as understanding the scriptures. I have just (yesterday after conference) been getting back into my scriptures and it's amazing to see how what is written in the scriptures connect so perfectly with LDS doctrines and the words of the prophets, even when not explicitly stated in the passage. There are so many deeper meanings for us to find and relate and connect to the words of the modern prophets and our doctrine that I came away yesterday with the certainty that it is an ancient record, not a 19th century document.

That is what I consider scriptural mastery, seeing and understanding how the scriptures work together and how it relates and connects with doctrine and the prophets. Find the deeper meanings. They're there!

Interesting. I'm at somewhat of an opposite position. After years of scripture study, I feel like I'm starting to get a good foundational understanding of the scriptures. But I'm missing the piece of having many important scriptures committed to memory, and I'm finding that this hampers my efforts to understand the scriptures at a more intimate level. During personal scripture study, I do a lot of cross-referencing and looking up other passages, but when I'm just driving along (or something) thinking about scriptures, it sure would be helpful if I had the actual scripture committed to memory rather than just thinking, "Yeah, you know, John said something about that. Somewhere. Chapter 12, maybe."

[Guest]

Interesting. I'm at somewhat of an opposite position. After years of scripture study, I feel like I'm starting to get a good foundational understanding of the scriptures. But I'm missing the piece of having many important scriptures committed to memory, and I'm finding that this hampers my efforts to understand the scriptures at a more intimate level. During personal scripture study, I do a lot of cross-referencing and looking up other passages, but when I'm just driving along (or something) thinking about scriptures, it sure would be helpful if I had the actual scripture committed to memory rather than just thinking, "Yeah, you know, John said something about that. Somewhere. Chapter 12, maybe."

I have committed zero scriptures to memory. I was raised Catholic just like andypg. We didn't memorize scripture.

But yes, I know John said something about that. Somewhere. Chapter 12 maybe. I look it up and sure enough, it's there. But in Matthew Chapter 10. Doesn't diminish my intimate understanding of it any nor does it add to my understanding that I know the passage word for word and exactly that it's in Matthew Chapter 10...

But, I know of these folks in the International Church of Christ who has memorized passages from the Bible and you can't talk spiritual stuff with them without them running off a few memorized passages. And a lot of times, I hear the passage they are mouthing off and I wonder to myself, "how in blazes does that even relate to what we're talking about? Just because it said 'children' in that passage doesn't mean it relates to our discussion on parenting!".

So, I think it's a case of different strokes for different folks. Mostly a product of how you learned due to how you were taught as children.

Edited October 7, 2013 by anatess

[andypg]

Interesting. I'm at somewhat of an opposite position. After years of scripture study, I feel like I'm starting to get a good foundational understanding of the scriptures. But I'm missing the piece of having many important scriptures committed to memory, and I'm finding that this hampers my efforts to understand the scriptures at a more intimate level. During personal scripture study, I do a lot of cross-referencing and looking up other passages, but when I'm just driving along (or something) thinking about scriptures, it sure would be helpful if I had the actual scripture committed to memory rather than just thinking, "Yeah, you know, John said something about that. Somewhere. Chapter 12, maybe."

Right now as a convert of 1 month, the important part is understanding the Book of Mormon and how it relates to other scriptures and our beliefs. And what I found has been nothing short of beautiful (In Mosiah 2-3 alone there is so much to learn!) I'm making connections everywhere.

I'm a Catholic Studies Minor and am currently taking a class on the Virgin Mary. One of our textbooks was written by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. My professor always goes back to the point of Benedict being one of the greatest Bible scholars of the 20th century because he reads the Bible as one continues, coherent text. Meaning, he doesn't just look at Luke and say, "What does this mean?" In interpreting Luke he looks to the entire Bible.

I sort of want to be the LDS version of that, seeing everything in light of the whole, which first, I believe, comes with understanding and reading carefully then with memorization.

[Guest]

I'm a Catholic Studies Minor and am currently taking a class on the Virgin Mary.

I would love to hear your conversion story...

[andypg]

I would love to hear your conversion story...

In short: YouTube and the mormon.org online missionary chat

[Seminarysnoozer]

D&C 131:6, for starters.

My use of the word "scriptorian" is in reference to the original post. I thought my original usage was quite clear in this respect. If it's still unclear to you, let me know and I'll point it out.

Talk about cross referencing scriptures, the "ignorance" spoken of in the verse you gave references to D&C 136:"32 Let him that is ignorant learn wisdom by humbling himself and calling upon the Lord his God, that his eyes may be opened that he may see, and his ears opened that he may hear; 33 For my Spirit is sent forth into the world to enlighten the humble and contrite, and to the condemnation of the ungodly."

That ignorance is in reference to being ignorant of the spiritual influences we can have in this life if we are humble and contrite and asking in prayer. That kind of ignorance is when a person is blinded to the spirit and only depends on secular learning. One can be brilliant to the ways of men but be ignorant to the spirit. The scriptures and the doctrine are there to help us depend more on the Lord and recognize the spirit.

The doctrinal facts and data we all knew before coming here, the veil blocks that knowledge. If we remain worthy, that knowledge will all come flooding back into our memory once the veil is lifted. We have no chance of learning the facts better than what we learned before coming here. The value of this kind of learning wisdom is in the improvement in our faith and dependency on the Lord and ability to stay in tune with the spirit.

[skalenfehl]

When Jesus Christ appeared to the people at Bountiful, they thought he was an angel. When He finally began teaching them, they had no clue what he was talking about. He perceived they were "weak" and admonished them to pray to the Father concerning His words. Thereafter He began expounding on Isaiah (of all prophets).

Obviously, the general membership simply didn't search the scriptures and were not prepared to be taught greater mysteries, although they were taught plenty. Joseph Smith said that a man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge. There is a reason why collectively, we as a church are still under condemnation.

[james12]

This scripture has provided valuable insight to me about how and why we study the scriptures. I think Traveler helped me to see it quite a number of months ago. Jesus here is talking to the Jewish rulers who are well versed in scripture.

And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:37-40, NIV)

The question is, do we come unto him? Is the Father's word in us? If so, our study has not been in vain. But some can study and search the scriptures and not be drawn to the Son. For all their studying they are actually further from him.