Adoption And Unwed Parents

[StrawberryFields]

Life is Fragile...handle with prayer.

My brother and his wife are unable to have children together. They have adopted one and are in the process of adopting their second. I believe in adoption and giving up a child in the right circumstances.

My SIL had a child at 16 and her daughter has done great and the trials they have gone through have made her stronger. After my SIL married it was discovered that because of medical issues as a child she would not be able to have more children. "B" her daughter, is a real blessing in the lives of our family.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

So far I am disappointed with the posts of this thread. To be honest they appear to be quite selfish and prideful.

If I understand your posts correctly Traveler you see adoption to be the correct course. In other words, we agree; but you are disappointed with the posts? ...even the ones that agree with you?

M.

You make a good point - I am not sure that our society does well with children that grow up without their mother and father. More and more children are forced to not live with "their" father and mother. Single girls getting pregnant is only part of the problem. We have become lax in upholding marriage and the importance of marriage. I believe we have lost the perspective of children and the next generation.

It would seem to me that there are too many adoptions - too many children neglected in the social, political, economocal system of things. Parents with 7 or 8 children are dispised and looked down on. If children do not have every material thing wanted we think parents have failed. We seem to be making things worse.

Young girls and boys today should have a clear understanding of what is expected of them. The time to talk to children about pregnancies and helping them understand decisions must come before they are pregnant or even dating.

The Traveler

Traveler, what Maureen is saying is that it seems contradictory to post about how disappointed you are with the opinions in this thread. Most of the people have basically said they agree with you. Why the disappointment?

And while I, myself, agree with you for the most part, I will say that no one is perfect... NO ONE. I have luckily never been in this situation, but I have carried my child for 9 months and I can't even imagine what it must feel like to give up a baby after giving birth to them. I'd like to think that's what I'd do, but who knows? There is nothing stronger than a mother/child bond, and that bond is created before birth. Try as you may, I don't think a man can understand that special bond. And yes, it could be considered by some a bit selfish for a mother not to keep her child if the situation is not ideal, but like I said, no one is perfect.

Perhaps we should leave the judging to God.

[Traveler]

Traveler, what Maureen is saying is that it seems contradictory to post about how disappointed you are with the opinions in this thread. Most of the people have basically said they agree with you. Why the disappointment?

And while I, myself, agree with you for the most part, I will say that no one is perfect... NO ONE. I have luckily never been in this situation, but I have carried my child for 9 months and I can't even imagine what it must feel like to give up a baby after giving birth to them. I'd like to think that's what I'd do, but who knows? There is nothing stronger than a mother/child bond, and that bond is created before birth. Try as you may, I don't think a man can understand that special bond. And yes, it could be considered by some a bit selfish for a mother not to keep her child if the situation is not ideal, but like I said, no one is perfect.

Perhaps we should leave the judging to God.

I am sorry that it appears that I lack compassion for young single girls that are pregnant. My disappointment is because for all that we say we care in society - the problem continues to get worse - especially for innocent children. If we care and are doing the right thing, then the problem would become less of a problem – not a more severe problem.

In many places (inter city and dense population bases) there are more abortions than there are live births. Of the live births over 70% of the children will become adults without either their father or their mother in their home. Looking at the dynamic of children – forced to grow up without father and mother – most of the high school drop outs will come from this group, most of the criminals will come from this group, and most of the individuals on government assistance will come from this group. The term “most” is not misleading – compared to the general population this group will provide a disproportionate number to the problem. Just 50 years ago, less than ¼ of children born in many areas of the USA would grow up in a home without their father and their mother.

When I grew up I knew one person that came from a home of divorced parents (my high school and a graduation class of about 300). I did not know anybody that grew up in a home with a single mom (not divorced). My children were the odd balls in that they came from a minority family where their father and their mother are in the home.

Now let me ask the difficult question – the question no one wants to hear – the question we would like to pretend not to exist – the question that make some people upset.

When do we stop “enabling” single women becoming unwed mothers and the dead beat men that abandon them?

Do we all agree that we may need to take some "painful" steps to change a trend or are we fine with the way things are - and will oppose a change? Especially if a change is painful to someone that made a mistake?

The Traveler

[shanstress70]

I am sorry that it appears that I lack compassion for young single girls that are pregnant. My disappointment is because for all that we say we care in society - the problem continues to get worse - especially for innocent children. If we care and are doing the right thing, then the problem would become less of a problem – not a more severe problem.

I didn't say that we care and are doing the right thing. I said that no one is perfect.

Traveler, I'm not sure you are aware, but you come across as very self-righteous... that's just my humble opinion though. You tend to have a strong set of values and morals, but you lose me (and I'm sure some others) by the way you tend to come across so judgmental.

[Guest redruby]

<div class='quotemain'>

I would like to know how LDS members feel if they were to have a daughter at 16 get pregnant. Would you

choose to keep the baby or force your daughter to give the baby up to an LDS family so that baby could be sealed to the adopted family?

I said it before and I say it again, redruby is a troll -

LDS do NOT FORCE their beliefs, doctrines, or anything else on another human being.

Mrs S. and Other LDS members

You said that I'm trying to cause disharmony between everyone here, I'm sorry that is simply not the case. I signed up for this site to ask a simple question since my sister is LDS and has a son that is in this situation and SHE wanted to know how other LDS members felt about adoption. Simple as that. In any event thank you for those who answered my question with respect... Futhermore, I have decided to go ahead and discontinue my membership of this website since several comments made me feel sad as I take pride knowing that I try very hard to be a good Christian. Sad to say but if I wanted to be a troll as you call it I wouldn't of been honest and put in my profile that I was Catholic. Im sorry if their was any misunderstanding...

God Bless,

Redruby

[Maureen]

Mrs S. and Other LDS members

You said that I'm trying to cause disharmony between everyone here, I'm sorry that is simply not the case. I signed up for this site to ask a simple question since my sister is LDS and has a son that is in this situation and SHE wanted to know how other LDS members felt about adoption. Simple as that. In any event thank you for those who answered my question with respect... Futhermore, I have decided to go ahead and discontinue my membership of this website since several comments made me feel sad as I take pride knowing that I try very hard to be a good Christian. Sad to say but if I wanted to be a troll as you call it I wouldn't of been honest and put in my profile that I was Catholic. Im sorry if their was any misunderstanding...

Hello redruby - Don't let a couple posters make you run off. Stay awhile, check things out and if you still don't feel comfortable then we'll understand. :)

M.

[Winnie G]

Traveler there are many things you learn by living though them,

If my family had handled it a different, way I might have felt differently.

I know that I would have handled it differently if it had been my daughter,

As it is, I am a better mother and parents all around because of it.

It was not until my grandson was with me while I was visiting my mother once before I know hay I’m did OK, I’m a good mother they turned out OK.

She went after him with her critical insight over table manners, I was able to step in pull him close and started to tell him what a wonderful young man he was and we used that opportunity to tell grate grandma all about his love of reading and animals and how much I loved him then I turned my head and stared at her, (BACK OFF) need less to say she shut up.

My brother later pulled me a side and told me I was a wonderful mother and grandmother.

When my children were growing up and time came to approach this subject I told them the truth and how hard my life was and what blessings came in to my life (the church) it always upset my mother that our children know their parents bumps in all. She came from an aria was secrets and shame were the rule. My Children all adults know at lest enlightened. Their not perfect but they know I can say I been there and I am there for them.

[Traveler]

<div class='quotemain'>

I am sorry that it appears that I lack compassion for young single girls that are pregnant. My disappointment is because for all that we say we care in society - the problem continues to get worse - especially for innocent children. If we care and are doing the right thing, then the problem would become less of a problem – not a more severe problem.

I didn't say that we care and are doing the right thing. I said that no one is perfect.

Traveler, I'm not sure you are aware, but you come across as very self-righteous... that's just my humble opinion though. You tend to have a strong set of values and morals, but you lose me (and I'm sure some others) by the way you tend to come across so judgmental.

You are quite correct. I am very result oriented. I could say I was brough up that way. If something is not working - I tend to believe that a loving and caring person will learn from experience and make better choices and apologize and forgive for wrong choices rather than make excuses for old wrong choices.

I do not believe we are doing what ought to be done for children in our society and it breaks my heart. I believe we have become a very enabling society for bad choices - especially concerning children. I as sorry that it sounds cold, hard and judgmental.

The Traveler

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I am sorry that it appears that I lack compassion for young single girls that are pregnant. My disappointment is because for all that we say we care in society - the problem continues to get worse - especially for innocent children. If we care and are doing the right thing, then the problem would become less of a problem – not a more severe problem.

I didn't say that we care and are doing the right thing. I said that no one is perfect.

Traveler, I'm not sure you are aware, but you come across as very self-righteous... that's just my humble opinion though. You tend to have a strong set of values and morals, but you lose me (and I'm sure some others) by the way you tend to come across so judgmental.

You are quite correct. I am very result oriented. I could say I was brough up that way. If something is not working - I tend to believe that a loving and caring person will learn from experience and make better choices and apologize and forgive for wrong choices rather than make excuses for old wrong choices.

I do not believe we are doing what ought to be done for children in our society and it breaks my heart. I believe we have become a very enabling society for bad choices - especially concerning children. I as sorry that it sounds cold, hard and judgmental.

The Traveler

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

I am sorry that it appears that I lack compassion for young single girls that are pregnant. My disappointment is because for all that we say we care in society - the problem continues to get worse - especially for innocent children. If we care and are doing the right thing, then the problem would become less of a problem – not a more severe problem.

I didn't say that we care and are doing the right thing. I said that no one is perfect.

Traveler, I'm not sure you are aware, but you come across as very self-righteous... that's just my humble opinion though. You tend to have a strong set of values and morals, but you lose me (and I'm sure some others) by the way you tend to come across so judgmental.

You are quite correct. I am very result oriented. I could say I was brough up that way. If something is not working - I tend to believe that a loving and caring person will learn from experience and make better choices and apologize and forgive for wrong choices rather than make excuses for old wrong choices.

I do not believe we are doing what ought to be done for children in our society and it breaks my heart. I believe we have become a very enabling society for bad choices - especially concerning children. I as sorry that it sounds cold, hard and judgmental.

The Traveler

The Traveler: I'am the mother of the boy that is refered to in the original question this happened to our family nearly 7 years ago now. I'am LDS and so is all my family with the exception of my sister who posted the original question after I was talking to her I just wondered if anyone else had been given the same advice from the Church that we had recieved at that time. My son now is 23 years old and his precious little girl is 6 yrs old..this is the little girl that his ex-g/f was pregnant with at the time thank goodness the mother didnt give in to HER parents wishes to give my precious granddaughter up for adoption,if she had we wouldnt have this precious spirt in our family,Both my son and his ex-g/f both finished high school and they both are working and going to school to continue their education dont get me wrong its been a strugle for them both but even though the two of them never married each other the mother is a excellent mother and my son is very involved in his little girls life,at age 16 he took on the responsibility of being a FATHER and he's a excellent one he pays his child support faithfully and supports his daughter in every way.Maybe we are the exception to the rule.We did pray,met with our Bishop we were even asked to talk to LDS Family services which we did my son was advised as to the churches policy on wanting unwed parents to give their children up to a LDS family so that child could have all the blessings of being sealed to the adoptive parents. As stated on other posts DONT BE SO JUDGEMENTAL.... NO ONE IS PERFECT.. I just hope and pray that if you have any children and they become pregnant you may change your thinking. Since I came from a good LDS family and was raised in the LDS faith as is my son but WE all make mistakes. :)

[Traveler]

.... NO ONE IS PERFECT.. I just hope and pray that if you have any children and they become pregnant you may change your thinking. Since I came from a good LDS family and was raised in the LDS faith as is my son but WE all make mistakes. :)

Thank your for your story. I am grateful that all has worked so well for you.

We have several friends that can only have children by adoption. My daughters (and sons) are very close to these families - we have taken these adoptive families and children with us on vacations. When my daughters were still young (prior to dating) we had them involved with the families as they have adopted children. They have helped with the young pregnant mothers and have fasted and prayed with mothers and the adoptive families concerning the children. If it was not for our boys we would have had young women from the LDS social services in our home. Many of these young ladies face problems without the support or strength that you have.

Our daughters have baby sat the adopted children. My wife wanted to make sure if our daughters were to get pregnant out of wedlock that they would have a good view of the other side of adoption.

Although my daughters are now married and did not have an out of wed pregnancy they have been able to help and counsel and give support to some of their friends. I have tried very hard to teach my children to make decisions and be prepared in life before a crisis; of which we have had our fair share.

May I add one more thing - one adoptive young man I have taken with me and trained him as a white water rafting guide. He is not a perfect kid but one any mom would be pleased with (I am his uncle). He is 17 and he plans, when he is 18, to look up his birth mom and thank her for giving him birth and placing him with his family. And in case you are wondering - I am very hard in my training of white water rafting guides - mistakes can be fatal.

The Traveler

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

<div class='quotemain'>

.... NO ONE IS PERFECT.. I just hope and pray that if you have any children and they become pregnant you may change your thinking. Since I came from a good LDS family and was raised in the LDS faith as is my son but WE all make mistakes. :)

Thank your for your story. I am grateful that all has worked so well for you.

We have several friends that can only have children by adoption. My daughters (and sons) are very close to these families - we have taken these adoptive families and children with us on vacations. When my daughters were still young (prior to dating) we had them involved with the families as they have adopted children. They have helped with the young pregnant mothers and have fasted and prayed with mothers and the adoptive families concerning the children. If it was not for our boys we would have had young women from the LDS social services in our home. Many of these young ladies face problems without the support or strength that you have.

Our daughters have baby sat the adopted children. My wife wanted to make sure if our daughters were to get pregnant out of wedlock that they would have a good view of the other side of adoption.

Although my daughters are now married and did not have an out of wed pregnancy they have been able to help and counsel and give support to some of their friends. I have tried very hard to teach my children to make decisions and be prepared in life before a crisis; of which we have had our fair share.

May I add one more thing - one adoptive young man I have taken with me and trained him as a white water rafting guide. He is not a perfect kid but one any mom would be pleased with (I am his uncle). He is 17 and he plans, when he is 18, to look up his birth mom and thank her for giving him birth and placing him with his family. And in case you are wondering - I am very hard in my training of white water rafting guides - mistakes can be fatal.

The Traveler

Traveler: By the way I to also live in Ut,but we live in Provo. Thank-you for your comment. "J" aka Bluesaphires_n_diamonds. :)

[Guest bizabra]

As an unwed mormon teen mother myself, way back 30 years ago, I will confirm that there is VERY strong pressure from the CHURCH leaders for unwed teens to give their babies up for adoption. In my case, at age 17, my parents were very supportive of my choice to keep and raise my son myself. In fact, I believe my Father would have done anything to keep his own flesh and blood in his own family. Thank goodness I never had to test him, as I would NOT consider giving my baby to anyone else.

Also, I was part of a counseling group through LDS Social Services for unwed teens. Without exception, ALL the other girls were from other areas and were living with "foster"parents until their babies were born and then they would return home. They were all very envious that my parents had not shipped me off and "forced" me to give my baby up. Their familes back home were lying about where they were and what was going on with them. The lies were that they were "exchange students" or "visiting relatives for the year" or some other such lie to conceal that they had been pregnant and given birth. Several girls were actually forced from their homes until they agreed to give the babies up.

Given the fact that all the mormon boys in Young Adults treated me as a pariah and would not take me out after my son was born, (except for one fellow who had promised his parents he would date EVERY young women in the Stake prior to becoming engaged, and who took me out to dinner once so he could mark me off his list, heh!) considering me to be "soiled goods", I almost can't fault the parents!

In all honesty, my home ward was very supportive, we had always lived in it and most people were good friends and decent folks. My son became the "ward baby" and was the center of attention and he and I both recieved a lot of love and kindness. My Bishop was a man who was a very close family friend and HE defended our family and our decision to keep my child to those who, like Trav, questioned the "rightness" of my decision.

My son has been a joy in my life. It turned out that I was only able to have one other child, a daughter, 2 years after my son was born, after I married a great guy who was "Dad" in every way to my son. I suffered 3 miscarriages after she was born and never had any more kids. My children are very close, to this day they are good friends, and they and their children are frequent visitors to each others homes and the cousins are very close. My son has given me 3 wonderful and very special grandchildren. He is a great guy with a strong set of ethics and is a decent human being and a good citizen.

No-one can know what is "best". Adoption is not always the best choice. Adoptive parents can be lax or abusive or uncaring, just as some "natural" parents can be. Single parents, even teen parents, even those without family support can be better parents all alone than some parents are who are together.

I will add that throughout history, most children did not grow up in families that consisted solely of both of their biological parents for the duration of their childhoods. Most children suffered the death of one or both parents, usually the mother through childbirth, and were raised by other family members or step-parents (the "evil stepmother" of fairy tales is no figment of imagination!) or even farmed out to work for other people if there was no kin who would take them in. Orphanages were a fact of life then for good reason. How many orphanages do you know about today?

The notion that "disintigrated" families is a "new" problem is false. Individual family units consisting of Mom, Dad, and their own bio kids with Mom staying at home and Dad being the bread-winner for the entire life of the children is a modern concept, made possible ONLY through the rise of the middle class, changes in economic and work laws, and the advent of life lengthening and saving modern medical practices. Prior to that, families often fell apart through death of one or both parents, poverty that forced children to be set to work or farmed out, step-parents were usual, orphanages and the "work-house" facts of life.

Trav, have you never read any Dickens? You should.

[theManager]

I see it this way,

The young mother, through true love and sincere prayer in the decision making, can't go wrong either way.

Adoption will bless another couple with difficulties in having children in a way that is truly selfless and beautiful. I think we can all agree on that. The mother on the other hand, while I am a guy and will never be a mother, will always remember that baby of hers. Twenty years later she might be in a great relationship with a new set of children of her own but will be missing that first child if she gives it to adoption.

I have seen true happiness in couples that just adopted a baby. I have also seen true happiness within a family with a spouse marrying a single parent. And isn't that what it is all about?

Check out my website ldsvilla.com

[Laureltree]

I would never force my daughter to do anything she felt strongly about.

I would love and support her no matter what.

I had my first child at 18 that made me six months when I graduated from high school.

I was not LDS but with in months after his birth I joined the church.

Since my family treated me with the "you made your bed lay in it" attitude.

It was the church members who loved me and taught me how to be the parent I needed to be.

They loved me and that saved me.

when I brought him home I had to read the paper boxes (they came in boxes back then) to know how to dipper him.

I know I did the right thing, its a shame my parents could not have shown me the same love.

AMEN TO THAT WINNIE......I TOTALLY AGREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

<div class='quotemain'>

I would never force my daughter to do anything she felt strongly about.

I would love and support her no matter what.

I had my first child at 18 that made me six months when I graduated from high school.

I was not LDS but with in months after his birth I joined the church.

Since my family treated me with the "you made your bed lay in it" attitude.

It was the church members who loved me and taught me how to be the parent I needed to be.

They loved me and that saved me.

when I brought him home I had to read the paper boxes (they came in boxes back then) to know how to dipper him.

I know I did the right thing, its a shame my parents could not have shown me the same love.

AMEN TO THAT WINNIE......I TOTALLY AGREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I will say again I'am so extremly happy that my son who the question was posted in behalf of he is the one that this situation happened to and his ex-g/f both at the age of 16 YES its been a strugle for them both. But they both finished high school and continued their education's. The ex-g/f kept the baby she didnt give into the churche's pressures nor the pressure put upon her from her parents,ultimatly it was the g/f's decision and my son's even though they never married each other they have joint custody and the g/f and my son both are great parents...Luckly we have this precious little girl in our family and our lives she's such a joy she now is 6 yr's old and the light of all our eye's especially mine...(Her Grandma)..Bluesaphires_n_diamonds aka "J" :)

[Traveler]

In light of what is happening in our society I regret greatly that adoption is so unsurpported.

I realize that there are always exceptions. Individuals can make such a difference but one of the great illusions in life is the belief that we are or can be the great exception. Take your own survey. The next time you hear of a child being abused; find out a little about the background. Take some time to contact various officers of the state and ask them directly about conditions in which a child is likely to be abused.

Let me be very clear - I am an advocate of children. I care very little what an adult may want or desire. My complete focus is for the children. It is nice that adults are happy. However, the critical element for a parent is sacrifice. An adult that is involved in sacrifice for children has my support. But adults that are concerned about having a wonderful child and the blessing of a child in their life and are concerned about sacrifice are very secondary in my mind. Adults fixed on their wants, their needs, their dream is very secondary in my mind - as well as a concern because of children.

I realize this sounds critical but I do believe that a young girl involved with a young man that has proper focus in life are not likely to become pregnant without a commitment and covenant of marriage. That a girl and a guy lack such focus is a deep concern of mine because of the risk that comes to children born in such a circumstance. A young man has demonstrated a willingness to abuse a young lady for his pleasure and an young lady has demonstrated a willingness to allow abuse in seeking what she wants and desires. And family appearts to me to "enable" such behavior for their own reasons.

I find it quite interesting that many posters call my motives to account. From time to time when I express concern for children in discussions of adults persuing their wants, needs and desires has met with resistance. Why shouldn't adults have what they want as long as it cannot be proven beyond any doubt that they specifically are a problem and not a possible exception.

I am not sure who really cares about children based on what people say and post on an internet. For example, I do not know how many parents have made arrangement for their children should they die. My wife and I made arrangements for our children to be raised by "married" family members. We did not choose unwed family or friends for a reason. We made certain that our desire concerning our children was well known among our family and friends and especially to our children. We made sure that our children had very good relationships with the families in which they might live. We made sure that our choice understood why we had chosen them.

In talking with a friend that had indicated what would happen to their children in the event of their death - they had also made a lot of stipulations about how their money that they left behind would be used. So I asked them, "Are you more concerned with your money or your children?"

I am sure you will all make decisions for your children according to what ever reason you have established.

The Traveler

[shanstress70]

Gosh, there's that wonderful judgmental attitude I love so much again.

I don't think that you can come to the conclusion that adoption is unsupported bc some people sd that they know of people who chose not to give their child up.

As far as a young man demonstrating a willingness to abuse a young lady... if two 17 or 18 year olds have sex and create a baby, I don't think you can call that abuse. Sometimes they truly believe that they are in love and are just young and naive. Yes, they made a stupid mistake, but you can't assume that he set out to 'abuse' her.

Gosh, you actually thought about placing your children with people who share your values and might take care of them? My only thought was about the money... NOT. Just so you know, you are not the only one who does this, Traveler. We have put so much thought into who would raise our child if something happens to us... money was indeed secondary.

And you thought you were the only one who cared about your kids!

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

In light of what is happening in our society I regret greatly that adoption is so unsurpported.

I realize that there are always exceptions. Individuals can make such a difference but one of the great illusions in life is the belief that we are or can be the great exception. Take your own survey. The next time you hear of a child being abused; find out a little about the background. Take some time to contact various officers of the state and ask them directly about conditions in which a child is likely to be abused.

Let me be very clear - I am an advocate of children. I care very little what an adult may want or desire. My complete focus is for the children. It is nice that adults are happy. However, the critical element for a parent is sacrifice. An adult that is involved in sacrifice for children has my support. But adults that are concerned about having a wonderful child and the blessing of a child in their life and are concerned about sacrifice are very secondary in my mind. Adults fixed on their wants, their needs, their dream is very secondary in my mind - as well as a concern because of children.

I realize this sounds critical but I do believe that a young girl involved with a young man that has proper focus in life are not likely to become pregnant without a commitment and covenant of marriage. That a girl and a guy lack such focus is a deep concern of mine because of the risk that comes to children born in such a circumstance. A young man has demonstrated a willingness to abuse a young lady for his pleasure and an young lady has demonstrated a willingness to allow abuse in seeking what she wants and desires. And family appearts to me to "enable" such behavior for their own reasons.

I find it quite interesting that many posters call my motives to account. From time to time when I express concern for children in discussions of adults persuing their wants, needs and desires has met with resistance. Why shouldn't adults have what they want as long as it cannot be proven beyond any doubt that they specifically are a problem and not a possible exception.

I am not sure who really cares about children based on what people say and post on an internet. For example, I do not know how many parents have made arrangement for their children should they die. My wife and I made arrangements for our children to be raised by "married" family members. We did not choose unwed family or friends for a reason. We made certain that our desire concerning our children was well known among our family and friends and especially to our children. We made sure that our children had very good relationships with the families in which they might live. We made sure that our choice understood why we had chosen them.

In talking with a friend that had indicated what would happen to their children in the event of their death - they had also made a lot of stipulations about how their money that they left behind would be used. So I asked them, "Are you more concerned with your money or your children?"

I am sure you will all make decisions for your children according to what ever reason you have established.

The Traveler

Traveler: Just two comments..1st I dont believe my son nor his ex-g/f made a mistake in them BOTH decieding to keep my granddaughter and NOT to give her up for adoption!!! As I've stated before she is the light of our eye's and such a precious little spirit I cant imagine her not being in our family so as for my son and his ex=g/f the decision NOT for adoption was the right one..2nd NOT all LDS adoptive family's are the right family's either my granddaughter's grandmother on her mother's side was given up for adoption to a LDS family when she was a baby,Iam sure the bio mother strongly believed she was giving her baby to a very loving family,but sorry to say my granddaughter's other grandmother was sexually abused for years by her adoptive grandfather which has caused this poor Grandmother years of emotional scar's. Bluesaphires_n_diamonds

[Traveler]

Traveler: Just two comments..1st I dont believe my son nor his ex-g/f made a mistake in them BOTH decieding to keep my granddaughter and NOT to give her up for adoption!!! As I've stated before she is the light of our eye's and such a precious little spirit I cant imagine her not being in our family so as for my son and his ex=g/f the decision NOT for adoption was the right one.

I have never said that your son or ex girlfriend should not be trying to raise your granddaughter. I have not said that your granddaughter should be given up to adoption. What I have said is that I do not think that because of this success that you should denounce adoption or think your son and his ex girlfriend are better than others that choose adoption.

Though I support adoption I do not look down on those that keep children and do the best they possibly can and make ever sacrifice to raise them. I have been accused of being hurtful because of my stand. Can you accept that you are hurtful towards those that choose adoption?

.2nd NOT all LDS adoptive family's are the right family's either my granddaughter's grandmother on her mother's side was given up for adoption to a LDS family when she was a baby,Iam sure the bio mother strongly believed she was giving her baby to a very loving family,but sorry to say my granddaughter's other grandmother was sexually abused for years by her adoptive grandfather which has caused this poor Grandmother years of emotional scar's. Bluesaphires_n_diamonds

For every story you can tell of abuses in adoption I can give ten stories of abuses of children in single parent homes. This is not a reason to oppose adoption. I have simply stated that children are more likely to be abused in homes where there is not a father and a mother. I am sorry you oppose this idea.

I tried to bring another point. I pointed out that my wife and I made plans for our children should we both for some reason die. We not only chose a family but even made legal arrangements in our will and with the family of choice. Did you make arrangements for a "single" parent to look after your children? What arrangements did you make? I can understand that in some cases it would be better that children be left to a single parent family - but I also recognize that in most cases I would recommend that responsible parents seek out a family with a father and a mother in the unlikely event that both they and their wife be taken.

I have tried to make a number of points. One: That the needs of the children be a priority. Two: the needs of adults are secondary. Three: that adoption not be demonized or that such a choice ever be considered less loving for the children. Four: that the attitude of "I cannot give up my child" is not a valid excuse nor is it a better attitude or a sign of a better parent. Even G-d the Father recognized this is not the best attitude.

I beg and plead with all on this forum not to demonize adoption. I also recommend that if there is a young lady that is currently pregnant and stuck with a father that is not committed to marriage and willing to be a loving husband and father in the home - that you prayerfully consider adoption.

Adoption is not evil nor will you be condemned (looked down on, talked behind your back or thought of as less or not as good as them) by any righteous person for considering or choosing adoption any more than supported by good people for raising your child.

The Traveler

[Guest bizabra]

Aboption is not evil, I will never denounce that.

But it is not purely selfish nor is it wrong for single parents to keep their children and raise them themselves, either.

You make is seem as if those of us who choose to keep our babies are doing it SIMPLY to be selfish and are NOT thinking about what is best for the child. You make is sound as if the ONLY REALLY positive thing to do is to give them up.

You state that you are PRO-CHILD as if those of us who kept our babies are somehow NOT pro-child!

You don't know everything, and you are not always right. The world truly is NOT black and white, there are many shades of gray in between.

[shanstress70]

Oh my gosh! Why do you think people here are 'demonizing' adoption, Traveler? I haven't seen one instance of that. I personally think adoption can be a wonderful thing, and have known several people who have been adopted. We are just saying that in certain instances it's not the right thing for the parties, sometimes including children, involved.

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

<div class='quotemain'>

Traveler: Just two comments..1st I dont believe my son nor his ex-g/f made a mistake in them BOTH decieding to keep my granddaughter and NOT to give her up for adoption!!! As I've stated before she is the light of our eye's and such a precious little spirit I cant imagine her not being in our family so as for my son and his ex=g/f the decision NOT for adoption was the right one.

I have never said that your son or ex girlfriend should not be trying to raise your granddaughter. I have not said that your granddaughter should be given up to adoption. What I have said is that I do not think that because of this success that you should denounce adoption or think your son and his ex girlfriend are better than others that choose adoption.

Though I support adoption I do not look down on those that keep children and do the best they possibly can and make ever sacrifice to raise them. I have been accused of being hurtful because of my stand. Can you accept that you are hurtful towards those that choose adoption?

.2nd NOT all LDS adoptive family's are the right family's either my granddaughter's grandmother on her mother's side was given up for adoption to a LDS family when she was a baby,Iam sure the bio mother strongly believed she was giving her baby to a very loving family,but sorry to say my granddaughter's other grandmother was sexually abused for years by her adoptive grandfather which has caused this poor Grandmother years of emotional scar's. Bluesaphires_n_diamonds

For every story you can tell of abuses in adoption I can give ten stories of abuses of children in single parent homes. This is not a reason to oppose adoption. I have simply stated that children are more likely to be abused in homes where there is not a father and a mother. I am sorry you oppose this idea.

I tried to bring another point. I pointed out that my wife and I made plans for our children should we both for some reason die. We not only chose a family but even made legal arrangements in our will and with the family of choice. Did you make arrangements for a "single" parent to look after your children? What arrangements did you make? I can understand that in some cases it would be better that children be left to a single parent family - but I also recognize that in most cases I would recommend that responsible parents seek out a family with a father and a mother in the unlikely event that both they and their wife be taken.

I have tried to make a number of points. One: That the needs of the children be a priority. Two: the needs of adults are secondary. Three: that adoption not be demonized or that such a choice ever be considered less loving for the children. Four: that the attitude of "I cannot give up my child" is not a valid excuse nor is it a better attitude or a sign of a better parent. Even G-d the Father recognized this is not the best attitude.

I beg and plead with all on this forum not to demonize adoption. I also recommend that if there is a young lady that is currently pregnant and stuck with a father that is not committed to marriage and willing to be a loving husband and father in the home - that you prayerfully consider adoption.

Adoption is not evil nor will you be condemned (looked down on, talked behind your back or thought of as less or not as good as them) by any righteous person for considering or choosing adoption any more than supported by good people for raising your child.

The Traveler

Traveler: I have NEVER said that I oppose adoption sometime's adoption can be a wonderful thing especially to couple's who can not have children of their own. It took me and my husbond 8 year's for me to be able to carry a baby to full team,after several miscarriage's, fertility drug's, ect so I do understand the adoption issue!!! Luckly I was able to get pregnant and carry our son to full term and he was a normal,healthy baby,he was the only baby I was lucky enough to have(yes he's the boy thats refered to in all this,the unwed thing). I dont believe for one second that my son nor the ex-g/f EVER had the attitude or excuse as you put it "I can not give up my child" In my opinion the decision for my son's ex-g/f and my son to keep this precious little girl was the best decision that could of been made...Traveler we dont live in a perfect world ppl make mistakes and lots of ppl learn by these mistakes. I just hope and pray that you take your blinder's off and realize maybe everyone isnt as perfect as you think you are or sould be,believe it or not..... not everything is black and white,there are many shades of gray also. My husbond and I also did make arrangement's as to if anything happened to us (god forbid) that our son would be well taken care of.So your not the only person who makes those kinds of arrangements for their child or children!!! Bluesaphires_n_diamonds

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

<div class='quotemain'>

I would like to know how LDS members feel if they were to have a daughter at 16 get pregnant. Would you

choose to keep the baby or force your daughter to give the baby up to an LDS family so that baby could be sealed to the adopted family?

I said it before and I say it again, redruby is a troll -

LDS do NOT FORCE their beliefs, doctrines, or anything else on another human being.

Mrs.S: I'am sorry but YES the LDS church does force (or at least they TRY) we expirenced this as a family when my son's ex-g/f was pregnant with the baby at age 16yr's both my son and his ex-g/f had both just barely turned 16 when they found out she was pregnant with my granddaughter. On the ex-g/f's parents request we(my son and I ) attended a meeting in Provo,Ut up on the BYU campus at LDS Family Social Service's at the time since my son was a minor we were advised by our attorney to NOT let my son go into that meeting by himself..As our attorney predicted the first thing that was asked was for my son to come into the office and talk with the gentleman by himself,so pressure could be placed on my son to give into what the church was advising young unwed teen parents...I have the LDS church's policy paper that the gentleman gave to us this day!!!! Needless to say they(the church's) policy is to give up that child to a LDS family,so they can have the many blessings of having that child sealed to them,have the LDS loving family,ect....Needless to say my son and his ex-g/f refused to give the baby up for adoption,that was 6 almost 7 yr's ago,and "WE" are all so lucky to have this precious little girl in our live's,she's the light of my eye's and our entire family's!!! My son is a excellent Dad as is her Mom a excellent mother..She couldnt of asked for any more loving,caring parents even though my son and his ex-g/f never married each other,my son supports his daughter,pay's child support and love's her with all his heart,and is very involved in his little girl's life!! So YES I just wanted you to know that it's been "OUR" experence that the LDS Church did TRY and put pressure on my son and his ex-g/f....Bluesaphires_n_diamonds..aka "J" :)

<div class='quotemain'>

I would like to know how LDS members feel if they were to have a daughter at 16 get pregnant. Would you

choose to keep the baby or force your daughter to give the baby up to an LDS family so that baby could be sealed to the adopted family?

I said it before and I say it again, redruby is a troll -

LDS do NOT FORCE their beliefs, doctrines, or anything else on another human being.

Mrs S: Please check out my post on #49 it's directed to your comment above as to the LDS church's so called approach of NOT putting pressure on young unwed teen's whom become pregnant at a early age,as to the Church's Policy on this. Read my post and then maybe you'll understand how and why I feel the way I do...Bluesaphires_n_diamonds..aka "J"

[Guest MrsS]

Read again what I said: The LDS CHURCH does not. It never has and never will. The Doctrines of the CHURCH is AGENCY.</span>The human beings you have dealt with may have stressed and used guilt on your son and girlfriend. But had these humans actually forced your son and girlfriend - the child would be with other parents.

Again The CHURCH of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does <span style="color:#CC0000">NOT FORCE THEIR members to do anything. Ever!!!