When to get out....

[chiccam]

How do you know when to get out? Honestly it seems I will do anything to keep my marriage from failing but I'm not convinced it's the right way anymore.

After much prayer I am recieving guidance from Heavenly Father but he only helps me with my next move. I'm sure you know what I mean by that.

I believe my husband is really torn. He's doubting the church and getting quite bitter. His behavior is that of a single guy most of the time contributed to his alchohol intake.

I never thought I would stay with someone who doubted eternal marriage, cheating is something I can work through but what is wrong with me?

As soon as I find out something new I truly feel like I can just forgive him and move on, problem is he can't move on. He thought for sure I would ask him to leave but I haven't? I am counseling with a trusted church leader on recognizing codependency, vs. compassion.

Honestly I'm not sure I want to start over with someone else, but I love having a companion and wouldn't be able to not get married again. My husband told me he would never re-marry and always take care of me. That to me seems like he wants ties and control. That would be very hard for me if we werent' together. I'm so confused and lost.

I'm trusting in God but I haven't talked with family or friends because if we do work it out, I don't want them to be judgemental.

Then in the back of my mind I think we've come this far working hard and can continue. He sees it as we've come this far and always had to work hard and it's still hard to keep it together.

He's sleeping in the guest room and currently I'm the bad guy for telling him he can't be trusted to drive the kids around, or be here with guests when I'm not here, I also asked him to stop talking to a friend thats a huge horrible ball of bad influence which he hasn't.

Any advice?

Keep in mind I'm quite tolerate being a recoverying alcoholic and seeing the light and turning out awesome. I want him to find his own awesomeness.

[Guest]

My opinion:

Marriage is a lifetime commitment. And by lifetime I mean not only mortal life but all through the life after this. In this sense, my marriage is forever and there is no situation - NONE whatsoever - that I will abandon my marriage. Yes, this includes my husband becoming a serial killer or something. But, if the health and safety of me or my children is at stake, then I will have to do everything in my power to isolate myself and the children from my husband. But this does not mean that I am willing to "start over" with another marriage. No. My marriage is forever and my promise to be my husband's help meet stands regardless of how crazy we all get. This promise is not for me. This promise is for my husband.

[M_T_E]

In my eyes marriage is and shall always remain a lifetime commitment, just as anatess stated. Most marriages fail because the effort put forth to save it are minimal, I know that when I do marry regardless of how much we may fight, butt heads, ect I will always keep to my vows.

Seeking the advice of others will not really lead them to be judgmental if they really cared about you both, at some point in time everyone will hit a rough patch in their relationships/marriages and such is the way of life. Some are willing to work through it, improve, learn and grow from the experience while others are more inclined to abandon ship.

You are currently in such a rough patch, hold fast and weather the storm. Request advice from those who are close to you or who have been in similar circumstances that you have found yourself in. Things will improve.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I find your treatment extremely harsh and unwarranted. You told your own husband, the father of your own kids, that you don't trust him, as I have interpreted your comments as the alcoholic intake is less of a problem than his profession that his beliefs are rocky. Its not surprising that his intake would increase, if his wife berates him constantly. Sit down and have a real talk. LISTEN.

I don't know the circumstances, obviously, but what I have gathered from here, is that you are punishing him for him speaking his mind. If he is abusive, then that is cause for a great deal of concern and you are justified in seeking assistance.

No where in the the gospel, does it say leave your spouse for your idea of what marriage is supposed to be.

[Suzie]

My opinion:

Marriage is a lifetime commitment. And by lifetime I mean not only mortal life but all through the life after this. In this sense, my marriage is forever and there is no situation - NONE whatsoever - that I will abandon my marriage. Yes, this includes my husband becoming a serial killer or something. But, if the health and safety of me or my children is at stake, then I will have to do everything in my power to isolate myself and the children from my husband. But this does not mean that I am willing to "start over" with another marriage. No. My marriage is forever and my promise to be my husband's help meet stands regardless of how crazy we all get. This promise is not for me. This promise is for my husband.

Your post reminds me to a good Catholic friend of mine from work. Let me explain.

She has been married for the past 15 years, separated from her husband for about 8 years after he cheated on her several times and sexually abused several of their children.

When she realized what was happening, she moved out with her children to her parent's house. Their children have serious psychological scars due to the abuse. The guy is in jail and she shares your exact same sentiment that a marriage is a lifetime commitment and that NO SITUATION, NONE whatsoever will cause her to abandon her marriage.

I must admit I struggle understanding this concept in situations such as this.

For me, once you hurt my children in such horrible and despicable manner the deal is OVER.

[Guest]

Your post reminds me to a good Catholic friend of mine from work. Let me explain.

She has been married for the past 15 years, separated from her husband for about 8 years after he cheated on her several times and sexually abused several of their children.

When she realized what was happening, she moved out with her children to her parent's house. Their children have serious psychological scars due to the abuse. The guy is in jail and she shares your exact same sentiment that a marriage is a lifetime commitment and that NO SITUATION, NONE whatsoever will cause her to abandon her marriage.

I must admit I struggle understanding this concept in situations such as this.

For me, once you hurt my children in such horrible and despicable manner the deal is OVER.

Then what? You get to enjoy another husband and make 'Til Death Do Us Part promises again? Not my idea of marriage. Marriage is the ultimate expression of love which Jesus Christ exemplified by washing his apostles' feet and dying on the cross for our salvation. He did not say, "Father, forgive them and accept my atonement for their sins... Well, except for that guy that just stuck a lance on my side".

I am so tied to my husband that I don't see how he can turn into a child molester without me seeing the signs leading to it. But, if it ever happens and I completely missed it and was not able to help him fight that evil side of him before it did some damage, I will accept my responsibility and do everything in my power not only to help my children heal but also to help my husband find his path back to God in this life and the next.

Edited May 25, 2013 by anatess

[chiccam]

I'd like to thank everyone for their honest advice and opinions.

I have to admit I was a bit worried when the advice was to stay with a serial killer. I'm sure that God has a better plan for you and it makes me think of one of my favorite conference talks by David S. Baxter where he advises single parents;

"Bless you for avoiding the type of companionship that would come at the expense of virtue and discipleship. That would be far too high a price to pay"

MTE-I agree that this is a horrible storm. I just see that my husband is choosing a different path, one that doesn't involve family. When he chooses to ignore me most of the time he ignores the kids as well. Its very confusing and heartbreaking.

Brow-I will not go through the reasons why I don't trust my husband, but the reason I told him he can't be trusted to drive the kids is because my son told me he had the most scary experience in his life and won't get in the car with him. He drove him home from a baseball game, going 90mph on the freeway and was texting. My son took his phone away from him and begged him to slow down. When I tried to talk to my husband about this he didn't even remember the car ride home. I beleive it's more his consumption use and drug use then not loving the church. So sorry I wasn't clear about that. I am very saddened he lost his faith but more so because he doesn't have christ to help him. I have been there and know what it feels like to lose the Holy Ghosts help.

Thanks again for all the input!

[mrmarklin]

If your husband is abusing drugs and alcohol you have a duty to your children to leave that toxic environment.

Don't care what anyone else says, thinks or does. Anything other than the above action is tantamount to child abuse.

[chiccam]

Well he would argue that pot isn't a drug, that's the one the I know about.

So many different opinions...

I want him to enter an in-patient recovery program. That is what I'm praying for, that he will recognize his need for help.

He does drink alot in the evenings and when he really drinks he stays at a family's members house over night.

[Gretchen]

Keeping your children safe is your first priority. Do whatever it takes to keep them safe. If that involves leaving your husband, than so be it. The Church is all about family's, and raising children in a good way. If your husband is a threat to them, then any good member will see you a a mother who is trying to do the right thing, given hard circumstances.

[mdfxdb]

Addiction

Abuse

Adultery

Those are the A's for divorce. How many does he have?

Any one of those is reason for divorce.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Addiction

Abuse

Adultery

Those are the A's for divorce. How many does he have?

Any one of those is reason for divorce.

I would argue that only abuse would be grounds for considering the termination of an eternal marriage. All three can be forgiven, given the proper understanding of an eternal marriage perspective.

I do wonder at you crying wolf, at the slightest sign of anything you consider within your realm of action worthy of immediate divorce as it seems really harsh. We only know the few details that have been shared, from her perspective.

[mdfxdb]

Um...Driving 90mph while texting and your child is in the car? So blitzed he doesn't remember the drive. Acting like a single person? Cheating? How much punishment is someone supposed to take?

I agree all 3 can be forgiven, but is it necessary to live ones life with them? Assuming she has kept her covenants then he has to keep his. Eternal marriage does not equal eternal misery.....

We only know what she has told us about him. I can only assume she is being honest. Our judgements here are based on incomplete information at best.

[mnn727]

After much prayer I am recieving guidance from Heavenly Father but he only helps me with my next move. I'm sure you know what I mean by that.

Actually, no I don't know what you mean by that.

[SteveVH]

Your post reminds me to a good Catholic friend of mine from work. Let me explain.

She has been married for the past 15 years, separated from her husband for about 8 years after he cheated on her several times and sexually abused several of their children.

When she realized what was happening, she moved out with her children to her parent's house. Their children have serious psychological scars due to the abuse. The guy is in jail and she shares your exact same sentiment that a marriage is a lifetime commitment and that NO SITUATION, NONE whatsoever will cause her to abandon her marriage.

I must admit I struggle understanding this concept in situations such as this.

For me, once you hurt my children in such horrible and despicable manner the deal is OVER.

Your Catholic friend has an obligation to protect her children from any animal that would abuse them, including their father. In fact, it would be considered sinful to remain in a situation where this was occurring. There is no sin in divorcing a man such as this and I would think that an annulment would certainly be granted in a case like this.

This is opposed to divorcing one's spouse because you find someone more interesting, or the marriage just wasn't what you expected. When the safety of yourself and your children are at stake one needs to get out.

[penny149]

I actually don't know what to say to someone who says I would never leave my husband even if he was a serial killer except to say I suggest you ignore the self righteous brigade and make your decision with the help of your Father in Heaven and possibly your Bishop. If your husband is a risk to you or you children then as Gretchen said do what you need to do to be self. The Lord does not expect you to stay in a marriage where the your value or the value of your children is eroded. You have every right to tell your husband you don't trust him if it is an honest expression of your feelings which are valid. However, if you know your husband is getting in a car while drunk you have a legal and moral responsibility to call the police because his behavior is dangerous and how else does he learn about consequences. Remember he has his agency and you have yours! The most loving thing you can do for him is to stand up and let him know by word and actions that his behavior is no long acceptable to you and you are no longer prepared to tolerate living in such an environment. You can do all this and at the same time forgive him that is have no anger or resentment toward him. God bless you and I hope that whatever you choose it will lead you to peace in your life for you and your children.