Kate Hunt and Statutory Rape Laws

[Soulsearcher]

I take it this worry is preemptive? The law makes provision for a petition to be made during sentencing or disposition of sentencing to prevent the requirement for registration. That is to say it is an active step the defense needs to make and the legal proceedings aren't at the point where that step would be made (unless I'm really confused about where the legal proceedings are at this point).

Source: http://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/2012/InterimReports/2012-214cj.pdf

I'm honestly not sure. As one of PC's links says so far they are claiming the statute doesn't apply to this case, so i' not sure if it's preemptive or they have already been told not to bother and so they are going guns blazing. I'm as confused as you are so at least I'm in good company.

[Soulsearcher]

It's so manipulative to pull the "homophobe" card here. She was warned and if homosexuals want to be equal to heterosexuals, then they better get used to being thrown in jail for predatory behavior.

As long as the same statutes are applied then by all means, the concern is there might be harsher rules for same sex couples in this situation, though we do have to get more information on this particular case, but as shown in one of my earlier links, some places don't treat everyone equal.

[Dravin]

In addition to that Florida Senate report that implies that granting the petition isn't automatic I'm trying to make make some sense out of the Adam Walsh Act as the Florida statute explicitly points out it is to comply with federal statute (and the report mentioned the Adam Walsh Act specifically). It's preliminary at this point but it looks like she could conceivably be considered a Tier II offender which requires 25 years of registration as a sex offender before she could petition for removal from the list (based on a skim of this: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/smart/pdfs/practitioner_guide_awa.pdf).

It'd be nice to have someone more comfortable with legalese weigh in.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Dravin

[prisonchaplain]

Florida Age of Consent Law - Romeo and Juliet Laws in Florida

This is what i came up with so it seems that the law should apply.

Thanks for this. It helps explain why the prosecutor is offering such a light plea bargain. The Romeo and Juliet law only protects the older teen from having to register for life as a sex offender. It does not mean there is no crime, nor does it remove all punishment.

[selek]

If I'm reading you correctly, you are arguing that the 18-year-old (or anyone) could completely break things off... and still be punishable if a minor shows up at the door even if the adult makes like Joseph and flees.

Nope- exactly the opposite.

It doesn't matter that the fourteen year old might have been an instigator in this instance, because the adult was legally and morally responsible to protect both herself and the minor involved.

Legally, it is the adult's duty to say "no" because the child cannot legally consent (no matter how willing he or she may be).

The child is presumed (with a startling amount of justification) to be incapable of making sound or considered judgement in such a matter- therefor the adult has to.

This one did not- and is now attempting to win special treatment because her fetish is currently fashionable.

If you aren't going to prosecute for the past, don't set things up in hopes it will happen again.

In point of fact, this woman was warned repeatedly- both at school and in private, to stay away from the child in question.

Having the child show up on your doorstep and telling them to go home is several orders of magnitude different than having that child show up on your doorstep and suddenly and inexplicably winding up naked and in bed with her.

[prisonchaplain]

Do you think a greater punishment should be given than if Kate were an 18-year-old male?

I do. In fact, if he were an ugly 18-year old, a big 18-year old, or an 18-year old of color, then he'd likely be looking at a much more serious plea bargain. I suspect that Kate's petite size, little-girl looks are part of what's generating sympathy for her cause. We do judge books by their cover.

[prisonchaplain]

Nope i was aware of that, but just commenting that the law that's in place should be applied equally and i think that's part of the fight.

If that is the lion's share of the fight, then the fight is manufactured. The prosecutor has offered a plea that would go even further than Romeo and Juliet--only requireing her to wear an angle bracelet for two years.

[Soulsearcher]

If that is the lion's share of the fight, then the fight is manufactured. The prosecutor has offered a plea that would go even further than Romeo and Juliet--only requireing her to wear an angle bracelet for two years.

I fully agree it's manufactured if this is the case, but i also understand why it's manufactured if this is what's going on. Don't agree with it in the least, but i do understand it. just think there might be a better way to push for things being equal than risking your future after making dumb choices.

[Backroads]

Nope- exactly the opposite.

It doesn't matter that the fourteen year old might have been an instigator in this instance, because the adult was legally and morally responsible to protect both herself and the minor involved.

Legally, it is the adult's duty to say "no" because the child cannot legally consent (no matter how willing he or she may be).

The child is presumed (with a startling amount of justification) to be incapable of making sound or considered judgement in such a matter- therefor the adult has to.

This one did not- and is now attempting to win special treatment because her fetish is currently fashionable.

In point of fact, this woman was warned repeatedly- both at school and in private, to stay away from the child in question.

Having the child show up on your doorstep and telling them to go home is several orders of magnitude different than having that child show up on your doorstep and suddenly and inexplicably winding up naked and in bed with her.

Once again, my argument was theoretical at this point. Please stop attaching it to the case at hand. I completely agree with what you're saying IN THIS CASE.

Though I suppose it's what I get for letting my mind wander into other realms as I type.

To make myself clear, I do not defend what this girl did--though I am watching SoulSearcher's reports to see if R&J laws apply here (though even if it did, the parents do have custody over the minor and therefore have many a right in speaking for her).

My initial complaint was over the idea that when a minor and adult are involved manipulation can theoretically happen.

I am perfectly aware the adult has all the moral and legal responsibility on his/her shoulders and I agree with that.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Backroads

[selek]

Once again, my argument was theoretical at this point. Please stop attaching it to the case at hand.

Okay- I missed that statement.

Thank you for the clarification.

My initial complaint was over the idea that when a minor and adult are involved manipulation can theoretically happen.

Actually, such manipulation is assumed; that's why the minor's inability to give informed consent is so crucial.

In the obverse, I won't argue for a millisecond that the minor cannot be maipulative, in turn: the Amy Fisher/Joey Buttafuoco case being an excellent example.

[bytor2112]

We live in a society where the lines are blurred and everything is so overly sexualized. I don't know if the 18 year old's life should be wrecked in this manner. Perhaps some mandatory counseling, but I struggle to see criminal intent. I am not condoning the behavior nor do I find it acceptable....but, 18 is hardly all grown up.

( I know a man in our Ward that started dating his wife when she was 14 and he was 19. They have been married for over 60 years)

[prisonchaplain]

Bytor...14 was but a couple years shy of marrying 60 years ago. Today, the average marrying age is high 20s. Many parents are hoping their children will go to college. Of course, this case would not involve the risk of pregnancy. However it apparently did mess the 14-year old's thinking up pretty good (sneaking off from home, etc.).

Even as a kid, I remember hearing the phrase, "16 will get you 20." 18-year olds today (especially the more mature female gender) are certainly as savvy as we were. Based on what we know thus far (and I am jaundiced by the parents' evil internet campaign, coloring the Smith's as hateful bigots) 2 years of community monitoring (ankle bracelet) and no sex-registering seems reasonable.

See the Hunts' handiwork here: http://www.freekate.net/

Edited May 27, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[RipplecutBuddha]

And now we find ourselves on the slippery slope that could have been avoided. All that needed to be done was to hold to the standards the Lord has set. No sex outside of marriage. Ever.

None of this would even be debateable under that rule. The fact is, however, whatever judgements are rendered by the state, both will still answer to the Lord as well.

It's examples like these that should be blatantly cautionary to all of us on the earth. We've just turned so far away from the face of Heavenly Father as a whole that we never even consider what he's had to say about anything anymore.

I know I'm reflecting a bit of a pipe dream in all this, but really, it could have been different, had we chosen to be more faithful as a race of God's children on earth.

[bytor2112]

Bytor...14 was but a couple years shy of marrying 60 years ago. Today, the average marrying age is high 20s. Many parents are hoping their children will go to college. Of course, this case would not involve the risk of pregnancy. However it apparently did mess the 14-year old's thinking up pretty good (sneaking off from home, etc.).

Even as a kid, I remember hearing the phrase, "16 will get you 20." 18-year olds today (especially the more mature female gender) are certainly as savvy as we were. Based on what we know thus far (and I am jaundiced by the parents' evil internet campaign, coloring the Smith's as hateful bigots) 2 years of community monitoring (ankle bracelet) and no sex-registering seems reasonable.

See the Hunts' handiwork here: Free Kate

I haven't followed or read much on this case and can't disagree with you PC. She should have known better. I am quite certain that "statutory" rape occurs frequently in all 50 states and goes unreported.

18 is an odd age. At 18 , you can serve in the military and die in a foreign land, but you can't buy alcohol and can be jailed for sexual activity with someone 16 years old. Again, I am not saying that an 18 year old should not be discouraged from this type of activity, but...

About 20 years ago when my wife first starting teaching, there was a high school Jr. who competed on the wrestling team and interacted like other Jr's in high school. The problem was that he was 20 years old at the time. I am sure he felt like a Jr. and was probably involved in those types of activities as well.

Not sure what the solution is...sometimes, hormones and even aggressive members of the opposite sex override common sense and judgement.

[prisonchaplain]

This article has added details that nail the head on the coffin for me. I hate trial by internet, but the Hunt family went on the offensive, and used dishonesty on many levels.

The American Spectator : The Spectacle Blog : The #FreeKate Narrative Melts Down: Lies Exposed in Florida Teen Sex Case

Key added details:

1. The sexual molestation started as a bathroom tryst, not a romantic relationship.

2. There is no question now about the 14/18 ages...though the Hunts initially claimed it was 15/17.

3. Kate Hunt had almost exclusively dated boys, until hooking up with the 14 year old girl.

3. If the Smith's are to be believed, this relationship led to rebellion and defiance for the 14 year old--something she'd not previously exhibited.

[MorningStar]

This is not just a legal issue either. The girls' parents are being threatened and called religious fanatics and homophobes because they treated this girl the way they would treat a boy in the same situation. Shameful.

Years ago my husband and I went to a U2 concert and at the last minute, these two drunk gay men came stumbling in. One of them hung on my husband and the other said, "No kissing! No kissing!" He says to my husband, "It's all YOUR fault you know!" If the situation were reversed and a drunk heterosexual had been hanging all over me, no one would have blamed my husband if he had grabbed him and told him to get lost, but in our situation, it wouldn't be PC. The headline would have read, "Homophobe abuses gay man at U2 concert".

[prisonchaplain]

It might not have been politically correct, but it would have been PC. :-)

[selek]

To be perfectly blunt, I find the rapid turn-about of some of Hunt's supporters to be problematic and driven more by pragmatism than be principle.

On the one hand, I give them credit for coming clean that things are not what they inititally thought.

On the other, the uncaring opportunism and sheer callous political calculation are simply appalling.

When Hunt was a potential asset to their cause, she was hailed as a hero.

The moment she became a liability, the dropped her off a cliff and didn't hang around long enough to listen for the splash.

This demonstrates clearly my earlier assertion that her would-be supporters are completely indifferent to her as a person; it is only her usefulness to their cause that they care about.

I agree with this statement (from a noted homosexual activist, and with the vulgarity redacted):

“The truth is this is not a case of homophobia; it’s a case of a family trying to protect their daughter by using the gay angle of this case to rally sympathy and support from the gay community,”T.J. Askren wrote Wednesday at her Red Treehouse blog. “Kaitlyn Hunt is not a lesbian hero. She is not a gay martyr. … Getting in trouble for ------- your underage girlfriend in the school bathroom is not a noble cause.”

But the double standard is both blatant and shocking.

Hunt is accused of (and has admitted to) homosexual intercourse.

That doesn't suddenly become non-homosexual simply because it's inconvenient to the carefully-crafted media narrative.

If they were going to support her "as a matter of principle", they should have been willing to do so despite the embarrassments and downturns that inevitably follow an in-depth examination of someone's sexual conduct.

Hunt may (or may not) have been the aggressor and victimizer vis-a-vis the Smith girl: but she's been well and truly violated by those in the homosexual lobby who pretended to care about her.

Edited May 27, 2013 by selek

[MarginOfError]

I've pretty openly stated (if not here, elsewhere) that I disagree with a lot of how we charge youth and very young adults as sex offenders. I do believe that there needs to be a certain amount of leniency in some situations (16 year olds sexting each other strikes me as immaturity and not worthy of becoming a registered sex offended).

I also have stated that I think laws that I think leniency is warranted when a 17 year old is dating a 15 year old and then the 17 year old turns 18. Such situations seem less predatory to me, and although still wrong, probably don't deserve the severe punishments often required by the law.

Kate Hunt is not one of those cases. An 18 year old should know better than to be involved in this activity with a 14 year old. Am I eager to label her a sex offender and make her life that much more challenging? Not really. But she knew the laws, she knew the implications, and she made her choices. If she were a male, I'd want her charged. The fact that she's female doesn't change anything.

[prisonchaplain]

A thought and another factoid -- Kate Hunt dimes herself out. Consider whether we really want to be pushing the normalcy of pedaphilia. After all, Hunt's family is arguing that this a matter of just a 100+ days past the age limits. So, should we make it 13 instead of 14? 19 instead of 18? And, how would we feel if it was an 18 year old man that seduced a 14 year old boy? Ickier? Why? Implied aggression or coercion--because it's males? Isn't that sexist?

Then there's the fact that Kate knew what she was doing was wrong, and posted it on the Prosecutor's new best friend, Facebook:

New evidence released today shows Facebook messages to the victim from Kate, stating she knew she'd get in trouble for dating a girl so young.

"Before Miss Hunt was arrested there were conversations on social media that she knew she was 18 and she knew what she was wrong with a younger person," Loar said. "I think you must look at all the facts involved."

[prisonchaplain]

Okay, we may all be on the same page (though different paragraphs). Here is a lengthy article that suggests Kate Smith is indeed a predator and budding pedaphile, and that her parents would be guilty of criminal behavior in some states.

We the United Saps of America! | The Pink Flamingo

AND, IN FAIRNESS, an article by a reporter who has followed the case almost since it broke--and reveals why she is in the "Free Kate" camp:

Rambling Rachael: Free Kate? A writer's personal thoughts on the Kaitlyn Hunt case

Edited May 28, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[Blackmarch]

» Suddenly, statutory rape no longer applies » News -- GOPUSA

The sum of this story is that Kate Hunt, an 18-year old senior in high school engaged in sexual activity with a 14-year old freshman girl. The parents of the younger child warned Hunt twice to discontinue the relationship. One night the 14-year old snuck out of the house, late at night, to meet with Kate. The parents called the police. Now Kate is being charged with a form of statutory rape that could land her 15 years in prison and force her to register as a sex offender. The prosecution is offering a plea that would reduce the charge, require two years of ankle-bracelet monitoring, and not require her to register as a sex offender. The judge would make the final call. Hunt's family have refused the plea. They set up a web site: Free Kate Stop the Hate, and insist that the other girls parents are Christian extremist homophobes, and that this is revenge for Kate allegedly turning their daughter gay. The younger girl's parents and the prosecutor say this is about an adult having a sexual relationship with a 14-year old--something illegal under Florida law.

Gay groups, and others, who believe statutory rape laws should not be so strict, are supporting Kate Hunt. Some, though, don't want to lose the right to protect their children from older predators.

wow. Can't say im too surprised tho.

Until the girl is of legal age of consent and/or under the care of parents/guardians, said gaurdians have the last word.

[prisonchaplain]

The latest news is that Kate Hunt's lawyer is asking for more time to prepare. Often, defense does this to let things cool down. However, in this case, since I believe they were planning to try for "jury nullification" (whereby the jury refuses to convict because they become convinced the law is unjust), I'm not sure how this will help them.

Personally, I wish she had taken the plea. Even the victim's family was not after Kaitlyn going to jail. However, they clearly see this as an adult seducing and victimizing their 14-year old. The part that infuriates me is that the Hunt family's first line of defense was to label the victim's parents as religious extremist homophobes. Quite frankly, I'm convinced that line got them the support of the gay community and ACLU. Gratefully, a few liberals and homosexuals have withdrawn support, once the Hunt family narrative started to fray at the edges.

Kaitlyn Hunt's attorney files motion to delay Sebastian teen sex case, citing need for more time to prepare » TCPalm.com

Daily Kos: Falling in love with another girl lands Florida teen in criminal jeopardy

Edited May 31, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[prisonchaplain]

This isn't really another update...just a visual that says it all...

I know...Kate ain't no dude...BUT STILL!

[MorningStar]

Just had a fun conversation with a Kate supporter. I asked them why there should be a different standard for predatory behavior based on sexual orientation after he stated that she shouldn't go to jail for a HS romance. I said, "So what if it were an 18yo boy who got a 14yo pregnant?" He said it was irrelevant because there was no pregnancy. I said, "OK, what if an 18yo boy molested a 14yo girl and there was no pregnancy." He said I was speaking in hypotheticals. I said, "That does happen. It's not hypothetical. Why should a boy be treated differently than a girl?" He said, "Thanks for the useless Tweet." I said, "Thanks for avoiding the question."

Double standard!