Looking to understand something American

[TalkativeIntrovert]

I have been reading a lot of posts since finding this site and there is something I am not understanding - American politics.

Could someone please give me the stereotype for people that support different parties. eg what is typical "liberal" or "Democrat" etc.

I am asking for stereotypes knowing full well that it is not all people, but often the stereotype will give a feel for the type when I see what seems to be an insult hurled

We have parties here in Australia with the same name, but it sounds like they aren't quite the same?

[mnn727]

Liberal and Democrat are similar but not exactly equal the same with Conservative and Republican

Democrat is a political party usually espousing Liberal objectives

Republican is a political party usually espousing Conservative objectives

William F Buckley defined the role of government from a Conservative point of view as:

It is the job of centralized government (in peacetime) to protect its citizens’ lives, liberty and property. All other activities of government tend to diminish freedom and hamper progress.

John F Kennedy defined Liberal as:

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

The main problem I see today is that Republican and Democrats do not follow the above conservative and liberal definitions. Today (with a few exceptions) its all about getting and keeping their power.

Edited July 20, 2013 by mnn727

[Lakumi]

I'm from Canada and I don't understand it, mind you Canada is not as conservative as the US is (eg our free health care, something I don't think Canadians would ever part with)

That's what keeps me from moving to the US, though I never get sick, who knows what might happen, and it would suck to have to travel all the way home (I wouldn't relinquish my Canadian citizenship) for treatment, I mean if I did move to the US it would be much further south, eg to not have winter...

It's a crazy world...

[Windseeker]

If I were to put it simply, conservatives care more about results and liberals care more about feelings.

What's going to make the world better vs what's going to make me feel better.

When it comes to economics conservatives are more pro-capitalism and liberals are more pro-socialism. People often associate big business with conservatism but nothing can be further than the truth. Look at any really large business in the U.S. (G.E., General Motors, Google, Microsoft) and their policies and politics tend to be very liberal.

Conservatives prefer smaller less invasive government and Liberals tend to prefer larger government.

Conservatives have more traditional values (Pro-life, Traditional Marriage) where liberals tend to have more progressive or secular humanist values. (Pro-Choice, Gay Marriage).

If your looking for stereotypes you might think of a as a liberal and a as a conservative.

But there are many problems with this as I know many conservatives that could be mistaken as hippies and liberals that you might think are hicks. But that's the way with stereotypes.

Rural areas seem to have more conservatives and urban areas have more liberals.

See the election map from 2012. (Democrats are blue, Republicans are red).

I think of myself as conservative and mnn727 might identify as more liberal, but I certainly agree with him on this.

The main problem I see today is that Republican and Democrats do not follow the above conservative and liberal definitions. Today (with a few exceptions) its all about getting and keeping their power.

Conservatives and Liberals are not being represented well right now by our government. There is too much division and not enough seeking common ground.

If you are interested in whether or not you are a liberal here are some questions you might ask yourself. If you agree you might be a liberal if you disagree you might be a conservative. Think of them in the context of Australia.

1.

Because of past and present racism in America, standards for admission to public universities, and governmental institutions such as fire departments, should be lowered for people of color.

Agree Disagree

2.

Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and good for America.

Agree Disagree

3.

Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.

Agree Disagree

4.

Colleges should not allow ROTC programs, and the military should not be recruiting on college campuses.

Agree Disagree

5.

Assuming equally loving and competent adults, adoption agencies should not favor a husband and wife over two men or two women.

Agree Disagree

6.

In the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, either both parties are equally at fault or Israel is more at fault.

Agree Disagree

7.

The United Nations is a force for good in the world, and therefore America should not engage in international behavior opposed by the United Nations.

Agree Disagree

8.

No abortions can be labeled immoral.

Agree Disagree

9.

Cities should ban smoking everywhere - i.e., outdoors as well as indoors -- except in one's own home.

Agree Disagree

10.

High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.

Agree Disagree

11.

Racism and poverty - more than, for example, a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in black America.

Agree Disagree

12.

No speaker should be permitted to say "God bless you" to students at a public high school assembly or graduation ceremony.

Agree Disagree

13.

No culture is morally superior to any other.

Agree Disagree

14.

There are more similarities - moral and otherwise - than differences between fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims.

Agree Disagree

15.

The earth is rapidly warming. The consequences are dire. And man, not nature, is mostly responsible.

Agree Disagree

16.

Since World War II, America has made war in foreign countries such as Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, and Iraq primarily out of economic and imperialist concerns.

Agree Disagree

17.

"Merry Christmas" should be replaced with "Happy Holidays," and "Christmas Party" should be replaced by "Holiday Party" because "Merry Christmas" and "Christmas Party" offend non-Christians.

Agree Disagree

18.

If a male employee decides to wear women's clothing at work, his employer has no right ask him not to, and if the employer fires the man, the employer should be heavily fined.

Agree Disagree

19.

Most Tea Party members and most conservative opposition to President Obama are animated by racism.

Agree Disagree

20.

No identification should be demanded of anyone who comes to vote at a voting place.

Agree Disagree

21.

Capital punishment should be abolished, meaning that no one found guilty of murder should be put to death.

Agree Disagree

Are You A Liberal - Prager University

[Gretchen]

This is all you really need to know about political parties:

[TalkativeIntrovert]

Thank you for your replies.

No wonder I get confused, it is quite different to Australia.

I will read the answers through a few more times to get a better understanding and possibly ask some more questions if that is ok.

In short, Aus has 2 political parties - Liberals and Labour. In very broad terms, Labour is left on the political spectrum and has "communist" as it's insult, Liberal is right on the spectrum and has "capitalist" as the insult. The reality is that both are pretty close to the centre.

[Guest]

Weird, so in Australia I'd be Liberal, but if you called me that in the US, I might give you a black eye.

[TalkativeIntrovert]

lol - that Is why I was all confused Eowyn!

[mnn727]

I think of myself as conservative and mnn727 might identify as more liberal, but I certainly agree with him on this.

Actually I am more Libertarian which is a whole different animal.

I believe the government is wayyy too big and has its nose into things it has no business being in.

BTW I only agreed with 3 items from your quiz and 1 of them (smoking) is because I have lung problems and would like to see it outlawed everywhere, along with perfume, cologne, air 'fresheners' and really bad b.o. - if you found it very hard to get enough oxygen into your bloodstream, you'd no doubt agree with me,

I have gotten up and moved in Church when someone wearing too much smelly stuff sits near me

Edited July 22, 2013 by mnn727

[Lakumi]

as I have said before, there are some things I am conservative about and some things I am liberal about...I cannot bring myself to say I am left or right, so I vote NDP since I don't much care for the liberals or the conservatives

[Guest]

No, American and Australian politics is vastly different. There are similarities, of course. Labour is closer to Democrat and Liberal is closer to Republican but they're not really comparable because of the difference in environemental, historical, societal, etc. culture.

Here's a bird's-eye-view of the history of Liberalism and Conservatism in the US that I wrote in a different thread:

"Convervative" and "Liberal" the American Way is vastly different from any other definition of the words outside of America due to some shift in leadership within American History (most notably in the split from Britain and then at the time of FDR).

Basically, the difference lies in the following:

A = On one hand: The rights of the individual is greater than the interest of society

B = On the other hand: The rights of the individual is subservient to the good of society as a whole

Liberalism is group A and to counterpoint, conservatism is group B.

Before America became its own country, liberalism (as the term connotates) meant that government should be limited in regulating personal liberty and economic enterprise. Conservatism is the counterpoint to liberalism, where a society's tradition and faith is put ahead of personal liberty and economic enterprise. So, in Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries, liberalism is in group A, while conservatism is in group B.

But then, America ceded and they created their own constitution and successfully shifted the liberal vs conservative paradigm because of the introduction of personal acquisition of property which was lacking in the British feudal system which in-turn introduced the concept of a free-market with limited government regulation. Also, the separation by States introduced State's rights which muddied it some more.

Conservativism maintained that the State is the Society.

Then the Great Depression happened, so then liberalism started expanding their foundation to include protection of the individual from the perils of the free-market system. They started to include that the government can best support the interest of the individual by regulating the economy and providing "safe-haven" welfare for its citizenry.

So, group A versus group B has now expanded to:

Group A - liberalism

1. The rights of the individual is greater than the interest of society in social and moral issues. (e.g. abortion rights, gay marriage rights, etc.)

2. The interest of the individual is better promoted by regulating the economy. This includes government-imposed market correction and consumer protection.

3. The government is responsible for individual welfare. This includes social security for seniors, stringent health and safety regulations, unemployment protection, minimum wage mandate, government grants for the needy, affirmative action for minorities, etc.

4. The government is responsible for environment preservation.

5. The federal government protects the rights of individuals over the states.

6. Progressive taxation on income prevents any individual from having too much burden.

Group B - conservatism (counterpoint to liberalism)

1. Individual rights are representative of attendant moral, religious, political, and civil rights.

2. Free market and personal acquisition of property is good for the society as a whole.

3. Society is not responsible for individual happiness and government should not "take from society" to benefit an individual.

4. Environment preservation is an individual concern.

5. The federal government can only act in areas wherein the states themselves do not have the ability - that is, only limited to inter-state and foreign affairs.

6. Taxation should not be punitive.

So, as you can see, Group A and Group B really has gotten muddled from the first basic definition to the way it is defined now.

So... it used to be that Democrats promote Liberalism while Republicans promote Conservatism. There are, of course, more than just those 2 parties in the USA but the other parties have a very small representation within the government, especially in the Federal level.

But now, Democrats and Republicans both are just going for anything that they think can give them votes in the ballot box. So, they would shed liberal/conservative ideas and adopt watered-down or even the opposing ideas if they think it's the way to get the votes or it's the way to get money from lobbyists to add to their campaign funds. Sad but true.

[mnn727]

Basically, the difference lies in the following:

A = On one hand: The rights of the individual is greater than the interest of society

B = On the other hand: The rights of the individual is subservient to the good of society as a whole

Liberalism is group A and to counterpoint, conservatism is group B.

I would have to disagree with that 100% - its exactly the opposite.

Edited July 22, 2013 by mnn727

[Guest]

I would have to disagree with that 100%

Huh? You're disagreeing with the historical definition of the words liberal and conservative??? You're free to rewrite world history, of course...

[Windseeker]

Anatess, in your own words, what is your current definitions of Liberal and Conservative?

[Guest]

Anatess, in your own words, what is your current definitions of Liberal and Conservative?

The exact same as what mnm quoted above. And this is applicable worldwide. The application is the only thing different between each country. Most major countries split between social and economic issues on liberalism/conservatism so that one may be socially liberal but economically conservative or vice versa. For example - the Liberal Party of Australia is an example of one who is socially liberal leaning but economically conservative leaning.

Edited July 22, 2013 by anatess

[Windseeker]

I think the question wasn't about the world but about how Americans define the terms.

Group A - liberalism

1. The rights of the individual is greater than the interest of society in social and moral issues. (e.g. abortion rights, gay marriage rights, etc.)

Group B - conservatism (counterpoint to liberalism)

1. Individual rights are representative of attendant moral, religious, political, and civil rights.

I disagree with your view that liberals feel that individual rights are greater then the interest of society. This completely goes against liberals collectivist mentality and their desire for larger, more controlling goverment (Socialism, Communism).

I think most would agree that conservatives are more concerned about indivdual liberty and freedom and therefore desire smaller less intrusive government.

[mnn727]

Huh? You're disagreeing with the historical definition of the words liberal and conservative??? You're free to rewrite world history, of course...

That is not a historical definition (hysterical perhaps)

Individuals rights are what true conservatives (as opposed to RINO's)are all about.

Liberals place society way above individuals.

[Guest]

I think the question wasn't about the world but about how Americans define the terms.

I disagree with your view that liberals feel that individual rights are greater then the interest of society. This completely goes against liberals collectivist mentality and their desire for larger, more controlling goverment (Socialism, Communism).

I think most would agree that conservatives are more concerned about indivdual liberty and freedom and therefore desire smaller less intrusive government.

That is THE definition of liberal and conservative. It's like asking... what is the definition of Run versus Walk. You may have different understanding of what running is versus what walking is where fast walking is actually a run but slow jogging is a walk in your neck of the woods but in the Dictionary, Run is one thing and Walk is another.

Now, the APPLICATION of the definitions is what is different within each society.

In the USA... conservatism (the accepted morals, traditions, culture of the society as represented by the majority is greater than the morals, traditions, cultures of each individual) is applied as - the Society is each individual State. In Britain prior to the US cessation, the Society was collectively the Church of England which was also The British Government. Therefore, by conservative viewpoint, the States, by majority acceptance, define accepted moral codes such as the definition of marriage and the legality of abortion which trumps individual moral codes.

And in the USA... Liberalism (the rights of the individual supercede the accepted morals, traditions, culture of the society) is applied as the Federal Government protects individual rights against the Society which is the States. Hence, in the liberal viewpoint, things like Gay Marriage and Abortion are sent to the Federal Government when the Society (State) does not accept it as part of their attendant moral code to "liberate" them from the Society (State). The US ceded from the British to promote Individual Liberty (liberalism) to separate each American from British Society's moral traditions as decreed by the Church of England.

Now, liberalism is considered The Left (anywhere in the world) and conservatism is considered The Right. Any watering down of each is considered left-of-center or right-of-center depending on which has a little bit more of. Note: Liberalism and Conservatism are two opposite principles that have equal merit when applied properly. One cannot be completely conservative and completely liberal in all issues. There are times when liberalism is superior (such as the separation of America from the Church of England) and there are times when conservatism is superior (such as... prostitution would be a perfect example that most of us here don't have a beef with - Legal in Nevada, illegal in Florida, no Federal mandate). But, of course, there would be those that would not agree with this (hence, the British waged war against the Americans) and I'm sure you can find some people who believes the Federal Government should mandate the States to legalize Prostitution. So, most of us are right-of-center or left-of-center if you really think about all issues in totality.

Another Note: Just because the Democrat Platform supports it doesn't mean it is automatically liberal just like just because the Republican Platform supports it doesn't mean it is automatically conservative.

Edited July 22, 2013 by anatess

[Guest]

anatess, by her own accord, struggles with English and how we say things here in the states sometimes. But she is right. Stop arguing with her. :/

Edited July 22, 2013 by Eowyn

[Windseeker]

Anatess, I appreciate your perspective coming from a foreign country. While you are correct on certain things some things about your definition just don't feel right.

I found this list and I think it's accurate for the U.S.

Is there anything here you disagree with?

C- Families know best how to raise their children. They need to be strengthened and have the right to raise their children the way they want.

L- It takes a “village” not a family to raise a child. Families need government help and oversight. Cradle to grave involvement is optimal.

C-Society is composed of individuals to be judged on their individual merit. Values individualism, self-reliance, and independence.

L-Sees society as composed of groups: black vs. white, old vs. young, rich vs. poor, male vs. female. These groups are pitted against each other. Stirs up racial and class envy and division.

C-Individuals are responsible for themselves and their actions. Crime should be punished. Evil exists and good should fight against it.

L-Society is responsible for individuals. Man is inherently good and something causes him to do wrong.

They talk about how we need to change society when someone does wrong. Even terrorists need to be understood.

C-Limit to how much can be taken from people to give to others. Welfare should help people to become independent (not dependent) and given to those truly incapable of taking care of themselves.

L- Supports welfare state. Government is morally justified taking from those that have and giving it to others because people are entitled to basic needs including housing, food, healthcare, income, etc. even if they are able to work.

C- Promotes equal justice.

L- Promotes social justice.

(Travon Martin anyone?)

C-Competition is good.

L- Competition is unfair.

C-Supports lower taxes for all because people have a right to what they earn.

L-Supports progressive taxation with high taxes for the rich in an attempt to equalize incomes through redistribution of earnings.

C-Less government is better. Wants only necessary regulation of business, economy, and individual lives, resulting in more freedom.

L-More government is better. Many regulations are necessary to achieve a more fair & just society which is government’s primary role, resulting in less freedom.

C-Limited federal government with more power given to state and local governments.

L-Powerful centralized federal government with limited state and local control.

(This is a point you made Anatess that I agree with)

C-People and property rights are more important than environment. Supports conservation and development and use of our natural resources along with the development of green technology by private enterprise and when it is economically feasible and self-sustaining. Opposes cap and trade due to its high cost and negative impact on our businesses and way of life.

L-Environment more important than people and property rights. Supports rationing and limiting access to natural resources. Focuses on green technology subsidized by the government. Supports cap and trade to redistribute and control energy usage.

C-Wealth is good. All have an opportunity to be wealthy (The American dream). Creates a better life for all through entrepreneurship.

L-Wealth is bad and unfair. Promotes class warfare.

C-Equal opportunity without discrimination. Recognizes people make different choices with what they have and that it isn't government's role to make things fair. Doesn’t seek equal outcomes.

L-Equal results through such things as quotas, free college, and equal pay for unequal work. Government has to level the playing field in order to have equal opportunity. Seeks equal outcomes.

C- Supports healthcare reform that gives consumers choices.

L - Supports government takecover of healthcare and limiting of consumers' choices.

C-Judicial restraint with strict interpretation of laws according to the Constitution and original intent.

L-Judicial activism: enacting social policy changes via court rulings. Constitution is seen as outdated and in need of change.

C-Free market economy.

L-Government regulation of economy.

C -Free market creates jobs.

L -Government creates jobs.

C-Business is good: creates jobs & improves lives. Let free market supply and demand adjust practices and employers and employees determine wages/benefits.

L-Business is evil: out to exploit employees, environment, and consumers. Needs to be regulated to protect consumers, employees, and the environment. Government regulates employee benefits.

C-Traditional morality including traditional family and values. Absolute standards of right and wrong. Absolute truth. Sees standing against wrong as a moral duty.

L-Tolerance of all lifestyles & beliefs except those that hold views they consider to be intolerant. No absolute standards of right and wrong. Moral relativism.

C-Right to free speech must be supported even if it offends.

L-Right to free speech is limited to speech that does not offend. (Political correctness)

C-Peace through strength via a strong military.

L - Peace through appeasement, cooperation, and understanding others' views. Dislikes showing and exercising strength.

C-Supports a missile defense system.

L-Opposes a missile defense system.

C-American sovereignty comes before globalism.

L-Globalism comes before American sovereignty.

C-Sees America as good: the best hope for the world. Believes in American exceptionalism.

L-Sees America as flawed: racist, homophobic, imperialistic, sexist, ageist and no better than other countries.

C-Western cultures are superior to others without rights, freedom, and respect for life.

L-All cultures are equal. Can’t pass judgment on any even if they don’t value freedom, rights, and life.

C-God is a necessary part of a moral society. Religion makes people good when they know they have to answer to God.

L-State is secular (without God and hostile to Christianity). Seeks to eliminate references of God through separation of church and state.

C-Rights emphasized: Freedom, Parental, Property, Religious, Guns, Life.

L-Rights emphasized: Civil, Privacy, Secularism, Reproductive.

Conservatism Vs. Liberalism - Home Edited July 22, 2013 by Windseeker

[Traveler]

I will make this very easy to understand:

In general what we call liberals (give out free things to everybody) are Democrats and what we call conservatives (give out free things only to those willing to "pay" for them) are Republicans.

Politically the Democrats are politicians that mostly promise the wrong things and do (legislate) the wrong things and Republicans mostly promise the right things and do (legislate) the wrong things.

The Traveler

[mrmarklin]

Anatess is of course correct in that the traditional view of liberalism is more individual rights. This has nothing to do with language barriers.

Perhaps the traditional liberal view should be "anti monarchist". We don't have a lot of monarchies anymore and the meaning of liberal here in the US has been distorted by the "progessive" ie socialist movement.

[Windseeker]

I will make this very easy to understand:

In general what we call liberals (give out free things to everybody) are Democrats and what we call conservatives (give out free things only to those willing to "pay" for them) are Republicans.

Politically the Democrats are politicians that mostly promise the wrong things and do (legislate) the wrong things and Republicans mostly promise the right things and do (legislate) the wrong things.

The Traveler

Another way of saying liberals are generous with everybodies money but their own. Even left wing journalist point this out.

Bleeding Heart Tightwads

Conservatives also appear to be more generous than liberals in nonfinancial ways. People in red states are considerably more likely to volunteer for good causes, and conservatives give blood more often. If liberals and moderates gave blood as often as conservatives, Mr. Brooks said, the American blood supply would increase by 45 percent.

[Traveler]

Another way of saying liberals are generous with everybodies money but their own. Even left wing journalist point this out.

Bleeding Heart Tightwads

Just so you understand - In the 1960 census it was determined that if 2% of the GNP was transferred to those in poverty that we would no longer have poverty in the USA. Later in the 1960's congress enacted what was called "The Great Society" in the grand experiment to end poverty. Under President Johnson legislation was enacted to create a new concept in welfare entitlements as a means to end poverty.

Today we have expanded the concept and are currently transferring almost ten times the determined amount of 2% and according to the census of 2010 poverty has persisted and even increased in the 50 year experiment. Which makes one wonder how to measure failure.

The economic principle is that money is the cause or cure of poverty rather than value. Something the LDS church understands but neither of the political parties in the USA or just about any other country I know of.

The Traveler

[mrmarklin]

Just so you understand - In the 1960 census it was determined that if 2% of the GNP was transferred to those in poverty that we would no longer have poverty in the USA. Later in the 1960's congress enacted what was called "The Great Society" in the grand experiment to end poverty. Under President Johnson legislation was enacted to create a new concept in welfare entitlements as a means to end poverty.

Today we have expanded the concept and are currently transferring almost ten times the determined amount of 2% and according to the census of 2010 poverty has persisted and even increased in the 50 year experiment. Which makes one wonder how to measure failure.

The Traveler

Hey if you want more of something---subsidie it!!

Corollary is,if you want less: tax it.