Birth Control

[Fiannan]

Could you give me the name of that book? Maybe the author has written other things as well.

[miztrniceguy]

my had very difficult pregnancies for our daughter and our son. we thought for a long time there was to be another little girl to come to us. my son is now 15 mo old, and after much prayer, talk, etc we have decided that we are done. i am getting snipped in to weeks.

[CrimsonKairos]

Fiannan, the book is called: "Psychology for Screenwriters."

Check it out here.

The author also discusses the theories of Freud, Erikson, Jung, Joseph Campbell and Rollo May.

[shanstress70]

Anyway, I prayed long and hard about going back to uni and waiting for children and I know for a fact Im doing the right thing, and really that is all that matters.

I agree with you that it is between you, your husband, and God. If you three are confident with your decision, that's all that matters. It is no business of any posters here.

I had my one and only child when I was 31 and my husband and I wouldn't trade our decision for anything in the world. The timing of it was great. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks... and all that!

[BenRaines]

President Kimbal was asked by his daughter after several children and a very difficult birth in the hospital, "Dad is this enough?" He told her that it was between her, her husband and the Lord, no one else.

We have four children, all by C-section, from back in the day when it was not very common. We have been very happy with our family nad never felt that we have deprived any spirits from coming here. We could always adopt also but that is another thread.

Ben Raines

[Palerider]

We have 4 children and when our third was born we always felt like there was suppose to be one more child. When our 4th was born a few years later we never felt that way again. Whats also interesting is, my wife was told when she was 18 she probally would not be able to have children. My wife was 24 when we got married and we now as I just mentioned have 4 kids. A few years after our first was born my wife had a tube removed due to a tubular pregnancy. Our Doctor at that time told us.....you guys probally won't be able to have kids. Again as you have read this post I did mention we have 4 children.

[Fiannan]

Obviously many decisions as they relate to the Gospel are between the individual and God. There is no "requirement" that we go to church every Sunday, or do any missionary work or even not work on Sunday. But I think we all truly know what is right.

[Aphrodite]

President Kimbal was asked by his daughter after several children and a very difficult birth in the hospital, "Dad is this enough?" He told her that it was between her, her husband and the Lord, no one else.

President Kimball is right. Thats what we are taught as members, not to have as many as you can. His daughters attitude is the type I cant stand. If she was stupid enough to just have one after the other without thinking about her health or otherwise and then had a difficult birth, or her health suffered then she only has herself to blame.

I agree with you that it is between you, your husband, and God. If you three are confident with your decision, that's all that matters. It is no business of any posters here.

Exactly. That's what our stake president told us before we got married. He said members will try to tell you otherwise, but its upto them, its your decision. Anyway, my husband and I prayed about whther it was right to have a child for weeks and weeks. Id already applied to uni by then but if the answer was kids then I would not have gone as I wont ignore the spirit no matter what I think. During the week I recieved a letter inviting me to an interview for the course. I felt this warm glow from the top of my head right down to my toes and this huge smile crept over my face. I knew I had my answer. Go to uni. I told my husband and he said he wasn't really feeling anything about having kids. He said he didnt feel it was the right time. So, I will go to uni in september and I can hardly wait. So, if I'm to go to uni I need to delay my family which means using birth control. The Lord would knows that, so he obviously doesnt mind, so I dont understand members who say 'it's wrong' or 'shouldnt be used'. That is their opinion, and even so having such a narrow minded attitude will rub off on your kids and get them no where. We need to be open minded in the church to be able to accept everybody if we are to be the good christian people we are.

If the Lord says its ok, its good enough for me. It might be no to someone else, like you jason, but everybody is different, and everbody has different circumstances. For that reason you cant tar everybody with the same rule. Thats like somebody saying, 'you shouldnt wear red' and going around telling all the members they shouldnt be doing it, and if you wear red you are WRONG. Its not about right and wrong. Its about personal choice, thats why I feel so strongly about this subject-It annoys me when members try to pass off thier own interpretations and opinions as what we all should be doing. Its not right.

Thanks for your input shanstress. You obviously have been guided into what is best for you. Good luck with your family life.

[Fiannan]

Ironic, men in the Church used to face jail and were perfectly into violating unrightious federal laws in the USA to perhaps take 5 or 6 wives and have families with each. Quite a burden, I tell 'ya -- jail being a real possibility just for following God's commandments (and think of the hardships of being the mother of 6 children when the U.S. gestapo came by and arrested your husband, and you having to pull the farm together in semi-arid Utah or Idaho.

Things have certainly changed when it comes to sacrifice with many. There is more I would say but maybe I will try to keep myself nice:) since most people I know say that I am perhaps a bit provocative but really nice -- and a young woman I know recently said that while she finds most Mormons old fashioned she stated I was the opposite of that.

Hey, maybe I am SO old-fashioned that I have reached the other side of the spectrum and now my views are radical and revolutionary. Or maybe the philosophies of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young might actually be cool to younger people in an otherwise discontented dying culture.

[MaidservantX]

You know, I think we all agree here more than we think. There are actually more than one question in this thread and we have been mooshing them together, but I would like to separate them.

Is is ok to use medical or (holistic, natural) birth control methods? Of course! Maureen quoted us the handbook -- that's modern revelation -- it's appropriate.

Is it ok to control the number of children you have? Of course! This 'control' will be different in each marriage and family for all of the reasons already discussed in the thread, and per the handbook Maureen quoted, and per personal revelation. Some marriages might 'control' the number of children they have to reach the number 10 (or some such).

Is it ok to put the principle of bearing children before almost any other principle and expect to be completely supported by God in this sacrifice? Yes!! Is it ok to feel unready for this sacrifice and instead be in a time of preparation to have the faith to make this kind of sacrifice? (story on this below!) Yes!! The only thing is that until one is prepared, there is not a punishment (do not run faster than you are able) but on the other hand, there may not be the reward, either. And if someone decides they are never prepared for the sacrifice of a bushel full of children (speaking of those who truly have a choice), well then they will be blessed in the principles they have laid hold on, and be passed over on the reward for this particular principle.

Is it ok to think that, in general and all things being equal, that Heavenly Father's children should be stopped from coming here? No! In general and all other things being equal, all effort in families and in societies should be to do the labor necessary and have the joyous faith necessary to welcome as many children as possible to our homes and societies. What individual person's part in this, they can know for themselves (we don't all have the same part in other types of principles, either, such as Family History work, even though the command to DO Family History work stands for everyone).

The story: I had five children, ages 3 to 12 or thereabouts. I was working full time, driving 40 minutes each way to a neighboring city to work at the job I had (I was home on weekends). My husband was home with the children, but did zero housework or even handyman work (I had to do these things at night or on weekends or they didn't get done at all). My husband did help with the little children's homework and administer snacks, and USUALLY made sure the baby got fed, but his abilities and/ or desire for interaction or even keeping track of the baby (half the time the baby just went over to my sister in law's house) did not go beyond these things (I am thankful for what he did do; and it was good even just to have a 'parent body' in the house). But my husband's mental and physical abilities were diminishing each year. I was and have always been a fairly healthy person. Pregnancies don't generally bother me, I even enjoy them, and labors are a piece of cake. However, I was noticing that with each child, my body took a little harder hit and bounced back quite a bit less each time -- my body was already wearing out as far as pregnancies were concerned. My husband and I were never huge on birth control and both of us pretty much had the attitude, if they come they come -- EXCEPT each child did bring a heavier emotional toll on me as to how I was going to take care of it financially and in other ways -- there didn't seem to be any relief for me, as I was being father and mother. It seemed that either mine or my husband's fertility or both had dropped off a bit, as I didn't get pregnant for several years, and I must say I was ecstatic about that. ANYWAY, early in 2004 I found out I was pregnant and I cannot express to you the deep fear that came over me when that happened. My job was unbelievably crappy and stressful, my marriage was non existent, we had many weaknesses spiritually and in other areas of life -- but the main thing was that I knew I could not place a newborn infant in my husband's hands and expect him to take care of that baby; and I knew I could not quit my job or there wouldn't be anything to buy diapers or eat with -- either scenario was wrong. I had two wrong things to choose from. This feeling of mine was despite the fact that I truly did want MANY more children than even the 6 that this would be -- but I felt the joy of childbearing had been taken from me from the very beginning of my marriage and it had only been sorrow -- a much longer story than this and I don't mind telling that my anger towards God was phenomenal. But I kept trying to think if I could make the sacrifice to quit my job and just see what the Lord would do to take care of me. I don't think I was far enough along spiritually to really do that though!! And yet, once a baby is coming, IT'S COMING!! ha ha Anyway, I only had a week to think about all this because then at that time I had to be induced to give birth to a 4 month baby (fetus) in which life had ended. I was not attached to this 'baby' (I'd only known a week) and because of the previous fear and the present circumstances, I was VERY relieved. So, it wasn't the child that I didn't want, it was the rest of the crazy life to calm down so I could have the children I wanted!! The happy ending to the story is that, even though my husband did pass away the next year (this is not the happy part), I was expecting a child again! Yayy!! Such a gift! And I had the gift of financial means to be able to quit my job and raise all of my children. I do work again now, part time, but I am VERY blessed, not every one can do this, to work on my own terms and schedule, I have a great boss, and he works with me like this. Things can still be tight, but I am so grateful things have change 100% for me! I really want more children emotionally, but my body, says, be my guest but leave me out of it, lol!! Maybe foster kids?? lol

[Maureen]

Hi xhenli,

I deduced from your other posts that were a widow with many children, including a baby. I admire your strength and motherly care. I'm glad you're experiencing joy in raising your family. Good luck to you!

M.

[Palerider]

xhenli.......I am impressed......you hang in there and keep going......I hope and pray all goes well for you!!!

[CrimsonKairos]

Quite the story xhen.

I was my mom's fourth son. She had phlebitis and almost died birthing me (C-section baby, yeah!). The doc said if she had more kids after me she'd die, literally. So...I kinda' feel bad about that.

That's where the adoption and foster kids came in...my mom wanted a huge family so she went about it the only other way you can if natural birth isn't feasible.

Anyway, God bless in your efforts xhen, and I'm very happy to hear of the blessings that our Father has bestowed upon you and your children. Sorry about your husband.

[jgsmith06]

I went onto the lds.org website and seached "birth control." The first insert that I clicked on depicted this view: "Birth Control

Children are one of the greatest blessings in life, and their birth into loving and nurturing families is central to God’s purposes for humanity. When husband and wife are physically able, they have the privilege and responsibility to bring children into the world and to nurture them. The decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for the husband and wife."

Above the section it states that these sections are:

answers to questions about Mormon beliefs

What I recieve from this message is that it is our responsibility to bring forth children into the earth. Those who are able have this responsibility. Although they must replinish the earth, it is up to their own ideals and decisions on what is needed for the benefits of their family. I feel though that if we are to choose to not have children then we must use self control and behave as adults. The admonishing of birth control into our wives is not a neccessity, it is a choice to give up power over the ability to have children.

[jehote]

I'm a little hesitant to reply because i dont have any kids. and due to some medical issues we will never have them naturally.

we waited for 7 years after we were married to try. almost 7 more years later of frustration and testing and it never happened. now its to late. all our friends are having children and i see what it does to my wife. it HURTS. but we smile and carry on.

someday maybe adoption. i'd say have them if you can for as long as its safe, then take steps to prevent. but dont prevent and say we will do it later. sometimes things happen, and later doesnt come.....

J

[Canuck Mormon]

My fiance & I are planning on using birth control after we get married. I have a 7year old son from a previous marriage and we are both settled in our careers. Plus with the cost of housing here in Calgary, we can't afford for either of us to be off work and have a child. We may decide to have one in a couple of years, but I see no problem with using birth control.

[Maureen]

My fiance & I are planning on using birth control after we get married. I have a 7year old son from a previous marriage and we are both settled in our careers. Plus with the cost of housing here in Calgary, we can't afford for either of us to be off work and have a child. We may decide to have one in a couple of years, but I see no problem with using birth control.

It's crazy here in Edmonton and I believe Calgary has always been higher. A starter home, 1000 square foot bungalow will cost you over $300,000.00. That's crazy and the cost has only recently changed. It's madness!!

M.

[Canuck Mormon]

We just bought a townhouse in Airdrie, 15 minutes north of Calgary. It's only 1150 sqft and we paid $226,500. The last house I bought, before my divorce, 6 years ago was a 1700sqft, 2 storey, brand new home for $200,000. That house was just appraised at almost $400,000.

Crazy, just crazy.

Sorry to divert the thread.

Back to the topic at hand "Birth Control"

[miztrniceguy]

one week to snippage day

[Maureen]

one week to snippage day

You're a brave man miztrniceguy! My niece's husband is suppose to make arrangements to also get snipped. He's procrastinating, not because of fear of pain but because the male doctor will have to touch him. What advice can you offer this man to overcome his fear of male/doctor touching? :)

M.

[miztrniceguy]

he's a dr...it's surgery...no big deal...before hand all he will do is make sure things are easily accesible.

seriously tho...it's just business

[Fiannan]

My fiance & I are planning on using birth control after we get married. I have a 7year old son from a previous marriage and we are both settled in our careers. Plus with the cost of housing here in Calgary, we can't afford for either of us to be off work and have a child. We may decide to have one in a couple of years, but I see no problem with using birth control.

I'm sure God would understand -- just like not paying tithing because it might force one to live in a less fancy house.

one week to snippage day

I had a grandfather who was a widower. He wound up marrying a young woman when he was in his mid 60s and they had 3 shildren together. Point is, I think the reason sterilization is absolutely wrong (unless a health reason is involved) is because one never knows the future. No marriage is stable enough to predict if it will last, absolutely no marriage (one can only trust in the Lord ultimately), and then there is the possibility of premature death. That could force one back into the singles pool and if one goes in without all the necessary equipment it can put you at a significant disadvantage.

[Fiannan]

I do think there is an irony facing many of the members of

the church today -- at least those of us of childbearing years.

During the 1960s (I was just a little kid, but I remember) there was

a huge, unrelenting push to stigmatize all people with, or wanting,

large families. At that time, at least according to books and

articles I have looked up written in that era, LDS leaders and

members overall took a leading role in stating that the Lord had not

changed his mind and Gen. 1:28 was in full force. They didn't tell

people to reproduce at their biological limit, but to strive to

provide bodies and homes for our Heavenly Father's children (our

brothers and sisters). Birth control has been critisized by church

leaders if it is used to limit a family for any reason other than

health or if the person has a genetic problem.

So when we took hit after hit for saying large families were great,

we did it.

Now the world, well many leaders and experts in the developed world,

are now saying the birthrate is TOO LOW! There are many incentives

being implemented in Europe and Japan to get people to have children,

and in the US the tax code is very favorable to those with large

families. And what are many LDS people doing? Trying to find any and

all excuses to justify small families as being okay.

Gosh, to get LDS people to have large families the world has to make

it something to be critical of, but when the world suddenly wakes up

and says, "There's a baby shortage!" that's the most effective means

to get LDS people to say no to kids????

Psychological pioneer Carl Jung once said that the sure fire way to

make a Christian mad is to point out the proofs that exist (outside

of faith) for God's existence. Something to think about.

Oh and here are two really interesting sites to visit -- not LDS, but

LDS in philosophy. One is what to say if someone is critical of you

having a large family. The other deals with the Biblical support for

having a large family. Check out and comment:

http://home.att.net/~nathan.wilson/brthcntl.htm

http://www.plomp.com/largefam/comebacks.htm

[miztrniceguy]

<div class='quotemain'>

one week to snippage day

I had a grandfather who was a widower. He wound up marrying a young woman when he was in his mid 60s and they had 3 shildren together. Point is, I think the reason sterilization is absolutely wrong (unless a health reason is involved) is because one never knows the future. No marriage is stable enough to predict if it will last, absolutely no marriage (one can only trust in the Lord ultimately), and then there is the possibility of premature death. That could force one back into the singles pool and if one goes in without all the necessary equipment it can put you at a significant disadvantage.

my wife turns 39 tomorrow. she had difficult births with both our children. with our daughter, her blood pressure dropped so low it was a bad scare....something like 80over 40 ...can't remember, too scary. with our son, the whole thing was very difficult because of the amount of weight she put on after the first, and duringthe second. my wife is now at the point that her dr office that delivered the first 2 woulld not even see her if she were to get pregnant now.

just too many problems and worries for us to handle.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

one week to snippage day

You're a brave man miztrniceguy! My niece's husband is suppose to make arrangements to also get snipped. He's procrastinating, not because of fear of pain but because the male doctor will have to touch him. What advice can you offer this man to overcome his fear of male/doctor touching? :)

M.

Gosh, does he never go get checkups at the doctor?