September Dawn

[rulds2084]

While cruising the internet I came across this movie.....September Dawn. Does anyone know anything about this movie? It sounds like anti-mormon propaganda, but I've never heard a thing about it till now. I live on the east coast so I'd say its talked up a lot more in the Utah area. You can veiw the trailer at www.septemberdawn.net

[StrawberryFields]

Where did you hear of this?

I am from Utah and it's new to me.

[rulds2084]

Where did you hear of this?

I am from Utah and it's new to me.

While I was checking out the upcoming movies on Fandango.com As of right now its on the second page of their coming soon list near the bottom. It says it'll be out on the 4th of next month. Does anyone know anything about this movie?

[Canuck Mormon]

I heard about it a few months ago. Supposedly it has Dean Cain (aka. Superman from Lois & Clark) playing a major role in it. It's about the the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the role that Mormons played in it. It doesn't shine a good light on Brigham Young or any Mormons during that tragedy. That's about all I've heard.

[Maureen]

I heard about it a few months ago. Supposedly it has Dean Cain (aka. Superman from Lois & Clark) playing a major role in it. It's about the the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the role that Mormons played in it. It doesn't shine a good light on Brigham Young or any Mormons during that tragedy. That's about all I've heard.

It was also filmed in the Calgary area. Also has Jon Voight in it. From what I remember, when Brad Pitt was filming the Jesse James movie in Edmonton, he went to visit his un-official FIL in Calgary and had lunch together (celebrity gossip).

M.

[a-train]

I came across a movie called Latter Days at the video rental the other day. The cover portrayed an Elder with his tag on and a smile. Reading the back cover, I saw that the plot was of an Elder seduced by a man into whom the Elders tracted. The whole movie is a gay fantasy.

But that is just what it is... fantasy.

'And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision. It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.' (Isaiah 29:7-8)

-a-train

[Winnie G]

Its rated R so I wont be seeing it.

It is church history (Mountain Meadows Massacre) and there are things we soon as forget from the passed. Just as Missouri would love to forget Hauns Mill, you don’t see them making a movie about their roll in that do you.

I watch the trailer it does smack of anti-Mormon and makes Brigham Young look a little loony.

He is not nor will be a favorite of mine in our church history. He was called to do what needed to be done at that time, nothing more nothing less.

We as members need to understand the history of our faith so we can fully understand were we came from. The trick is to always remember the times those members lived in.

The movie focuses on the blood oaths that were taken by members in answer to the persecution suffered under in the past.

An example someone once told me if I had lived in earlier years I would have been required to take a bath in the Temple in the presence of other women and been washed. (back hair etc)

I had to smile and tell him it was very understandable to me, puzzled he asked me how I could accept that. I said bathing was not a daily routine in those days and people traveled for miles to attend the temple, think of lice bed bugs and flees. Common right?

After the persecution suffered by the saints blood oaths were required. There again you have to see history with an eye of that history.

[Maureen]

An example someone once told me if I had lived in earlier years I would have been required to take a bath in the Temple in the presence of other women and been washed. (back hair etc)

I believe this would have been the 19th century version of the initiatory.

Here's an old article about the movie:

Mountain Meadows movie being filmed

By Carrie A. Moore

Deseret Morning News

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600158734,00.html

M.

[Dr T]

M,

You get two more points. Thanks for the ready info.

[Blessed]

What do I get for just showing up in this thread??? ;-)

[Palerider]

What do I get for just showing up in this thread??? ;-)

.......................................

[Outshined]

http://www.septemberdawn.net

http://www.septemberdawn.net/Bilder/NewYorkTimes_SD.pdf

Looks like typical Hollywood sensationalist hooey to me.

[sixpacktr]

Blood oaths? Are you talking about the Danites?

[Blessed]

<div class='quotemain'>

What do I get for just showing up in this thread??? ;-)

.......................................

Oh yeah.... cha ching!!!

[JcDean78]

I read the PDF and they include some Church research and even Gordon B making comments about how Young tried to stop it. The director keeps going on and on making up his own facts and trying to say that the LDS were blood thirsty savages.

[Maureen]

I read the PDF and they include some Church research and even Gordon B making comments about how Young tried to stop it. The director keeps going on and on making up his own facts and trying to say that the LDS were blood thirsty savages.

You have to understand the mind-set at the time.

Travel through Utah

The Fancher party arrived in Utah Territory in July with over 900 head of cattle but were running low on some supplies when they reached the Salt Lake City[14] area on August 3, 1857.[15] Only days before, Mormon leader and Utah Territorial Governor Brigham Young had declared martial law[16] in response to potential hostilities with the United States government.[17] President James Buchanan had ordered United States Army troops to advance towards Utah, beginning what would later be called the Utah War.

The main Fancher train waited outside Salt Lake City for more than a week as other trains caught up with them. The Baker Train (named for Captain John Twitty Baker) was the last to arrive.[18] Meanwhile the settlers had to decide which route to take across the Great Basin. The northern route meant traveling the Humboldt River Road west across the desert and Sierra Nevada mountains, then southward through California. The southern route, which involved less risk of the emigrants becoming snowbound in the mountains this late in the season, would carry them through the settlements in southern Utah, to the Mohave Desert and on to Los Angeles.[19]

At least one couple chose to take the northern route while others from the woman's family went south with the Fancher party towards southwestern Utah and Mountain Meadows.[20] The Mormons they encountered along the way were suspicious of non-Mormons and most declined to trade with them for several reasons, including Young's declaration of martial law, his orders discouraging the trading of food with immigrants and his orders forbidding people from traveling through the territory without a pass, which the Fancher party did not have.[21] However, the train's leadership may not have been aware of Young's martial law order since it was not made public until September 15.[22]

On September 1 in Salt Lake City, Brigham Young (who held the title of Superintendent of Indian Affairs for the Territory of Utah) met with Indian chiefs from the Southern Territory which included the area around Mountain Meadows. During a one hour meeting Young complained that the Americans had come to kill both Mormons and Indians. He told the Chiefs that if they fought the Americans he would give them all the cattle on the Southern California Trail.[23]

The Fancher party may have been joined by a group of eleven miners and plainsmen who called themselves "Missouri Wildcats," some of whom reportedly taunted, vandalized and "caused trouble" for Mormons and Native Americans along the route (by some accounts claiming they had the gun that "shot the guts out of Old Joe Smith"[24]) and stories of this spread through Mormon communities.[25] However, it is uncertain whether the Missouri Wildcat group stayed with the slow-moving Fancher party after leaving Salt Lake City,[26] or even existed.[27] Either way, popular Mormon leader Parley P. Pratt had been murdered in Arkansas a few months earlier (by the ex-husband of one of Pratt's plural wives[28]) and news of his death had only recently begun to arrive in the area.[29] These rumors, martial law, threats of war and limited supplies all likely influenced individual Mormons who didn't sell food to the Fancher party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

M.

[JcDean78]

Wikipedia is not a realiable source. I do not know about the info you posted one way or another, but the source is sketchy at best. I mean I could go on any page and edit it to say anything. Like Milk comes from Lizards and not cows or some crazy story like that. lol

I am also one who firmly believes that once the Prophett speaks, the debate is over.

[Maureen]

I am also one who firmly believes that once the Profit speaks, the debate is over.

Are you making fun of Mr. Hinckley with that spelling of Prophet?

M.

[JcDean78]

No I just was not paying attention to my spelling. Sorry about that. I would never make fun of him.

[Maureen]

Wikipedia is not a realiable source....

I think that's your opinion. Here's some information regarding Wikipedia:

Key policies

You don't need to read every Wikipedia policy before you contribute. However, the following policies are particularly important to the project, and the sooner you understand and use them, the better:

1. Wikipedia works by building consensus. Consensus is an inherent part of the wiki process. (See Wikipedia:Consensus)

2. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Its goals go no further, and material that does not fit this goal must be moved to another Wikimedia project or removed altogether. (See What Wikipedia is not.)

3. Respect other contributors. Wikipedia contributors come from many different countries and cultures, and have widely different views. Treating others with respect is key to collaborating effectively in building an encyclopedia. (See Wikipedia:Civility, Wikipedia:Etiquette, Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.)

4. Don't infringe copyrights. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia licensed under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. Submitting work which infringes copyrights threatens our objective to build a truly free encyclopedia that anyone can redistribute, and could lead to legal problems. (See Wikipedia:Copyright.)

5. Avoid bias. Articles should be written from a neutral point of view, representing views fairly, proportionately and without bias.

6. Add only information based on reliable sources. Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable published sources, and these sources should be cited so that other editors can check articles. (See Wikipedia:Attribution).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pol..._and_guidelines

M.

[Fiannan]

Its rated R so I wont be seeing it.

It is church history (Mountain Meadows Massacre) and there are things we soon as forget from the passed. Just as Missouri would love to forget Hauns Mill, you don’t see them making a movie about their roll in that do you.

I watch the trailer it does smack of anti-Mormon and makes Brigham Young look a little loony.

He is not nor will be a favorite of mine in our church history. He was called to do what needed to be done at that time, nothing more nothing less.

We as members need to understand the history of our faith so we can fully understand were we came from. The trick is to always remember the times those members lived in.

The movie focuses on the blood oaths that were taken by members in answer to the persecution suffered under in the past.

An example someone once told me if I had lived in earlier years I would have been required to take a bath in the Temple in the presence of other women and been washed. (back hair etc)

I had to smile and tell him it was very understandable to me, puzzled he asked me how I could accept that. I said bathing was not a daily routine in those days and people traveled for miles to attend the temple, think of lice bed bugs and flees. Common right?

After the persecution suffered by the saints blood oaths were required. There again you have to see history with an eye of that history.

Oh come on now, Brigham Young was totally awesome! Closest thing we have in modern history of Moses. As for the bath thing I have never read of such a thing. But from what I have read (and I think it was repeated in some threads here a while back) in the early days of the church in the Old World baptisms were done in the nude -- so that would afford a lot less privacy that a room in a temple.

As for Wikipedia, I would not suggest turning in a term paper in a university citing Wikipedia as one of your primary sources of information either.

[JcDean78]

Key part is "Wikipedia works by building consensus" when obviously there is no consensus on this issue and many others. As mentioned, it is not a valid source for any school project.

[Maureen]

Key part is "Wikipedia works by building consensus" when obviously there is no consensus on this issue and many others. As mentioned, it is not a valid source for any school project.

You make it sound like consensus is a bad thing. I think it's a good thing when the majority are in agreement, in harmony.

M.

[Winnie G]

Brigham Young was totally awesome

It a personal thing for each individual.

Yes he was the great modern Moses he did the job the Lord had for him to do.

But and I don't mean to be disrespctful and like Joseph use to say "I am just a man".

The church has kept good records and Brigham was not so kind to Emma when it came to selling off what he saw has church assets during the exodus from Nauvoo.

Trying to sell her home out from under her witch failed was not the act of a prophet but a man.

These things also included Smith family assets that were her only way to provide for her family.

We as member like to think that Emma had "Just had enough" and that is why she did not fallow the rest of the members out to Utah. That was not the whole story, Brigham Young was the rest. She never formally joined the RLDS church that formed after Nauvoo was abandoned. She remained faithful to her bebelief Joseph Smith and never spoke negatively. Brigham Young however is another story.

When I thought seminary years ago I had a YW who was filled with questions about Emma. I wrote a Historia and searched for her answers to her questions. It brought me great sadness to find a wake of sadness heaped upon her by church leadership (Brigham Young) leaving Nauvoo.

Brigham Young was the great modern Moses but as Joseph would say He was also a man with faults.

[JcDean78]

<div class='quotemain'>

Key part is "Wikipedia works by building consensus" when obviously there is no consensus on this issue and many others. As mentioned, it is not a valid source for any school project.

You make it sound like consensus is a bad thing. I think it's a good thing when the majority are in agreement, in harmony.

M.

Oh yea? Rule of the mob eh? What about the rule of law? Facts? Reality? So if a consensus thinks global warming is real or the earth is flat then they must be right!