Jehovahs Witness vs Word of Wisdom

[Drpepper]

So my wife recently attended a TOFW conference here in Sydney where thousands of Mormon women get together to be uplifted and inspired about life.

She loved it, so did many others, however there was also a Jehovahs Witness conference on at the same time in the same venue, different hall. I asked her if they combined conferences? She laughed and said i dont think so. Then made the following observation how the Women JW's in general were well dressed and quite slender.

This is the part as a male where you just shut up and listen.

She noted that in stark contrast The LDS women were carrying extra pounds compared to the JW women and we weren't talking about airplane luggage here.

Of course this was a general observation but it seemed if both conferences packed a scrum(rugby term) the LDS women would have run straight over the JW's.

I simply listened(women and weight, thats a no go zone for me) and at the end pondered a little on the WOW.

Every 2 years a member of the Bishopric ask me. Are you keeping the word of wisdom?

Generally I ignore the left over Hungry Jacks bag sitting in my car, the sugar fest i indulged in after the last ward baptism, the chocolate thats become wedged in my keyboard, the 30 pounds i have acquired since my mission, and my never ending staple diet of biscuits, snacks, fizzy drinks with the odd fruit thrown in to make me feel like i eat somewhat healthy.

Oh sorry what was the question?

Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

Quick mental check, (Caffiene, Tea, drugs, alcohol) all good.

Yes, of course.

[Dark_Jedi]

I do keep the Word of Wisdom, but I will point out to you that caffeine is not in there and the Church has no official stance on caffeine. I don't personally indulge in caffeine because I believe it is addictive and harmful, but not because it is against the Word of Wisdom.

Oh, one more thing. We have neighbors who are Jehovah's Witnesses and whom we are on friendly terms with (they apparently have to be careful what they allow us to discuss with them, but we don't). Both the adults in that family are quite obese, so while I don't dispute your wife's observation the same is apparently not true for all Jehovah's witnesses. Likewise, I've known some pretty portly members who do profess to keep the Word of Wisdom and could stand to lose at least a hundred pounds.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Dark_Jedi

[dahlia]

Since we are talking WOW - something I was thinking about today -

Can the Pres of the Church change the WOW? Could he make it OK to drink wine at dinner (one level, and maybe dangerous for those with alcohol problems) or tea (another, less dangerous level)?

My understanding is that the WOW did not come to us all at one time. Could the Church leadership, then, decide to get rid of some aspect of the WOW?

[TalkativeIntrovert]

Do JW's have a similar health code as the wow? I don't know much about them.

[Drpepper]

I do keep the Word of Wisdom, but I will point out to you that caffeine is not in there and the Church has no official stance on caffeine. I don't personally indulge in caffeine because I believe it is addictive and harmful, but not because it is against the Word of Wisdom..

I only mentioned Caffeine because in the my old missionary days i remember it being listed on my flip chart.

[TalkativeIntrovert]

Interesting observation on TOFW - the same observation made by a few others on Facebook!

I wasn't there as I was looking after kids so others could go, so I did not see the JW's, however I did see the photos taken by my own ward sisters, plus those from the NZ TOFW that my Sister In Law's attended.

As for WOW, I mentioned earlier today I do not follow the WOW. I drink coffee for a medical condition, and I obviously eat too much as I am obese.

If I were to pull apart the WOW, I am sure there are others I am not adhering to as well. Today I had some Rockmelon, this is not in season and has been imported. I also eat Frozen Blueberries year round - definitely not fresh and in season.

I cannot answer that I am following the WOW, so I do not qualify for a temple recommend. If I didn't require the coffee, I still would not answer that I follow it due to the other things I have said here. I have spoken to Home teachers about this and they think I am taking it to far. I don't think so, no item in the scripture is given any more weight than another.

It is something I am working through.

[Dark_Jedi]

Since we are talking WOW - something I was thinking about today -

Can the Pres of the Church change the WOW? Could he make it OK to drink wine at dinner (one level, and maybe dangerous for those with alcohol problems) or tea (another, less dangerous level)?

My understanding is that the WOW did not come to us all at one time. Could the Church leadership, then, decide to get rid of some aspect of the WOW?

The whole Word of Wisdom is contained in Section 89, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but it does appear to have come as one revelation to Joseph Smith (just from reading the introductory part). I don't think the Word of Wisdom has ever changed per se, but it has been clarified - as I recall it was Brigham Young who said "hot drinks" referred only to coffee and tea.

That said, could the prophet change it? Sure, prophets have changed things before (polygamy, Blacks and the priesthood). And, as noted above it has been clarified (and more recently, I can't find the link off hand, clarification that the Church does not have an official position on caffeine). Is it likely to change to allow wine with dinner? Probably not, but Bruce R. McConkie was wrong, so I can certainly be wrong.

[Dark_Jedi]

Do JW's have a similar health code as the wow? I don't know much about them.

Not that I am aware of. Next time I talk to my neighbors (other than the quick wave and "Hi") I'll ask them. I have not ever observed them taking any dietary restrictions.

And while I'm here and responding to you, you have a medical condition that requires coffee? Please don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing that at all, I am just very curious, and I am very interested in personal health. I have not ever heard of a condition that requires coffee and I would be interested in learning. If you don't feel comfortable responding here, please feel free to PM me.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Dark_Jedi

[TalkativeIntrovert]

Dark_Jedi,

I have a neurological condition called Benign Essential Blepharospasm - the muscles around my eyes go into spasm and shut my eyes so I can't see. The main treatment is Botox injections, but that is only partially effective and often causes my eyelids to droop and be so heavy I can't lift them. The first time I tried a stimulant medication my eyelids popped open and I was seeing normally for the first time in many years.

The problem is that the stimulants I have taken in pill form have caused awful side effects including heart palpitations, aggression, sleeplessness, agitation, Same effect as taking speed - my house is beautifully clean and my head is a mess. :)

A Coffee in the morning works just enough to keep my eyes open to function, and if I need to do something in the evening, I have another one in the afternoon. According to people on a support chatboard I am on, they think it is something more than the caffeine that helps - just taking caffeine based tablets don't have the same effect.

So I probably should not have said I require coffee. I can not have it and struggle with vision and day to day activities. I can also take other medication, but coffee is a lot less damaging to me and my family (they did not like the aggression!).

Hope that makes sense?

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW: I don't think JW's emphasize childbearing like we do. That, rather than diet, could be a big factor in the OP's observation.

[NightSG]

So I probably should not have said I require coffee. I can not have it and struggle with vision and day to day activities. I can also take other medication, but coffee is a lot less damaging to me and my family (they did not like the aggression!).

For that matter, there are at least two antidotes for ethylene glycol poisoning, (same as for methanol poisoning, FWIW) but one can be bought rather cheaply over the counter and kept around in case of emergency, and is rather hard to fatally overdose on if the patient still has taste buds. I doubt the WoW really means it's better to keep getting sicker than slam some cheap booze while waiting for the ambulance. (Ethanol is more readily metabolized by the same process as ethylene glycol, so it "cuts in line" and delays further absorption of the poison. In theory, it might be plausible to combine strong liquor and strong laxatives to block absorption and rush the glycol through if medical care isn't available. Too much to risk if there's any way to get proper treatment, though, and the hangover would still suck.) IMO, non-recreational (or at least mostly so; presumably I wouldn't have any more to answer for if I used good Scotch and enjoyed it, as long as the glycol poisoning wasn't intentional) use of the substances isn't the same as just having an Irish coffee and a cigar because you want to.

Edited August 21, 2013 by NightSG

[bytebear]

Since we are talking WOW - something I was thinking about today -

Can the Pres of the Church change the WOW? Could he make it OK to drink wine at dinner (one level, and maybe dangerous for those with alcohol problems) or tea (another, less dangerous level)?

My understanding is that the WOW did not come to us all at one time. Could the Church leadership, then, decide to get rid of some aspect of the WOW?

The church has changed the requirements, but only expanded it to include harmful drugs. But ultimately we are the judges of ourselves. The interview question doesn't go into the details of what you are and are not doing, and you are free to simply answer yes or no.

[jerome1232]

The whole Word of Wisdom is contained in Section 89, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but it does appear to have come as one revelation to Joseph Smith (just from reading the introductory part). I don't think the Word of Wisdom has ever changed per se, but it has been clarified - as I recall it was Brigham Young who said "hot drinks" referred only to coffee and tea.

Beer was added, where it was (debatably) allowed in the WoW we have in D&C (mild grain drinks can only be interpreted as beer by me)

[NightSG]

Beer was added, where it was (debatably) allowed in the WoW we have in D&C (mild grain drinks can only be interpreted as beer by me)

Non alcoholic grain drinks would include anything with unfermented malt, barley water, a whole slew of Asian beverages, Guatemalan horchata, (horchata varies a lot by country, but Guatemala and some others use primarily rice) Nicaraguan chicha, (same deal, what passes for chicha in one country would be unrecognizable to most others, and most ferment it) and rice milk. There are also a lot of very-low-alcohol (too low to get drunk on even if you tried pretty hard) grain beverages like kvass and some of the other varieties of chicha. (Though, again, some countries make chicha at beer strength or beyond.)

[Drpepper]

Without getting into the nitty gritty of the revelation. The point is, we have a revelation regarding how to keep our bodies healthy and clean. Yet my wifes observation as well as many others is that Members of the LDS church aren't necessarily the healthiest group going around. Does anyone have an opinion on why this may be?

[Iggy]

Without getting into the nitty gritty of the revelation. The point is, we have a revelation regarding how to keep our bodies healthy and clean. Yet my wifes observation as well as many others is that Members of the LDS church aren't necessarily the healthiest group going around. Does anyone have an opinion on why this may be?

Funeral potatoes.

[TalkativeIntrovert]

Focus on food. Pre-church, cake was something I had only on someone's birthday ....

[Dravin]

I don't think the Word of Wisdom has ever changed per se, but it has been clarified - as I recall it was Brigham Young who said "hot drinks" referred only to coffee and tea.

Joseph Smith himself is actually the first to make such a clarification, at least if FAIR's sources are to be believed:

1 Source: Joseph Smith “defined ‘hot drinks’ as tea and coffee, the two common household beverages of the day. Joel H. Johnson, with whose family the Prophet was intimate, relates that on a Sabbath day in July (1833) following the giving of the “Word of Wisdom,” when both Joseph and Hyrum Smith were in the stand, the Prophet said to the Saints: “I understand that some of the people are excusing themselves in using tea and coffee, because the Lord only said ‘hot drinks’ in the revelation of the Word of Wisdom. Tea and coffee are what the Lord meant when he said ‘hot drinks.’ ” [John A. Widtsoe and Leah D. Widtsoe, The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1937), 85-87.]

Link: Word of Wisdom, Caffeine and Hypocrisy « FAIR

Edited August 21, 2013 by Dravin

[Dark_Jedi]

I think there is a little danger in making board statements about Latter-day Saints being healthier (or skinnier) than others because of the Word of Wisdom. While it would make sense to believe so, and may actually be true to an extent, it is certainly not true across the board.

Let's look at a case study to illustrate: my mom vs. my mother-in-law. Both are widows living alone and both are in their 70s. My mom has six children, mother-in-law has seven.

My mom does not affiliate with any church, but isn't atheist, either. She does not smoke (but used to), drinks socially, and drinks a few cups of coffee daily. She lives in her own home by herself, mows her lawn, cleans, cooks, etc. She works a part time job as a cashier at a small convenience store/gas station. She drives and does so quite well but doesn't like to drive at night. She has two dogs and a cat which are well cared for. Several times per week she helps my sister with her children and housework (my sister's husband is out of town all week and my sister works full time). She also frequently shares her meal with an older lonely lady in her neighborhood. She is not skinny but is not really overweight, either.

My mother-in-law is a member and does live the Word of Wisdom. Only a couple years older than my mom, she uses a walker and is essentially home bound. She does have a car but it needs repairs and the children have decided to not assist her in fixing it because the idea of her driving is scary. She lives in an elderly housing complex and has an aide who helps her with cleaning and laundry once a week. She has not worked in over 30 years, even when she was healthy enough to do so. She has a dog that we all feel sorry for - it is rarely let out (it goes on paper) unless a family member takes it out. My sister-in-law manages her finances. She has short-term memory issues - frequently forgets things she was just told, often gets mixed up on the date/day of the week or even what month it is, although she is otherwise quite lucid. She is incontinent, and because the aide only comes weekly, if a family member doesn't take out the garbage with her diapers and the dog do, her place smells so bad most can't stand to be in there. If we take her somewhere we have to drive with the windows open. She is obese.

So in this case, they're opposites - the one who doesn't keep the Word of Wisdom is the picture of health - I expect she'll live well into her 80s or 90s (her doctor says the same thing). The one who keeps the Word of Wisdom is a literal mess. Truth is, I don't think the Word of Wisdom has anything to do with it. Likewise, I don't think an observation that women of another religion attending a conference being skinnier than LDS women has anything to do with the Word of Wisdom, either.

[Traveler]

The sad truth is that in western culture obesity is not just a health problem it is the singular most prominent health problem. Even sadder is the fact that obesity has a known cure. I understand that it is possible to have a medical condition that is so sever that the balance of healthy living may not be possible. However, actual sever medical conditions are not really the problem in western society.

But there is a whole other side of this coin. I recently had a most interesting discussion with my daughter (a picture of health) about dignity. It is my personal opinion that dignity is an important element of the gospel of Jesus Christ and is also connected to almost all the personal issues that lend themselves to obesity and financial mismanagement. As a result many (including LDS members) are involved in a downward struggle with dignity as a result of being overweight and financial difficulties.

It is true that there are other struggles with various worthiness issues that are more mission critical to our eternal salvation as we navigate mortality but even a small problem can become overwhelming if it destroys a persons dignity and causes just a slight deviation from the straight and narrow path.

I believe that healthy living will improve a person's dignity and enhance almost every element of social interactions that are a part of our culture - this includes our marriage relationships (or the development of such relationships), as well as families and our communities. The problem is how do we communicate encouragement to improve health without negatively affecting someone's dignity?

It has been my observation in life as well as scripture study that in almost every case when an individual comes to believe that you are calling them to repentance that they will esteem you as the enemy - even if and especially if the call for repentance is greatly needed. It is almost if the greater the need to repent the greater the anger when the need is addressed.

I guess what I am saying is that dignity often is traded quickly for pride when it comes obvious that roles have been reversed and we become the one being helped with our repentance rather than one one helping others with their repentance.

The Traveler

[bytebear]

The WoW is a spiritual law with some temporal benefits. I think each of us needs to learn the spiritual benefits and live by the spirit of the law, and not just the letter of the law.

[Quin]

Without getting into the nitty gritty of the revelation. The point is, we have a revelation regarding how to keep our bodies healthy and clean. Yet my wifes observation as well as many others is that Members of the LDS church aren't necessarily the healthiest group going around. Does anyone have an opinion on why this may be?

Maybe some thoughts:

- Midwest culture (meat & potatoes & dessert)

- large families (not just childbearing, but that's a piece fo'sho, but also food on the table tends to be more filler less gourmet. Spaghetti by the 5 gallon, 10lbs of potatoes, tubs of butter, etc. Coming from a non-LDS large family there is a RULE at the table: The Quick & The Hungry. Every time I go to my Mum's I gain weight. I eat about 4x what I usually do just out of habit at her table. Dive in!)

- focus on JOY (which can be rock climbing, but is ofen potlucks, big family meals every night, splurging on ice cream, playing Boardgames, going to drive ins, holiday baking, etc...a lot of food and sitting activities. As a JW comparison... JWs don't celebrate holidays, for example. No Christmas & birthday presents/parties will,keep,off holiday weight).

- Ahem. Garments. Which will make you look fat even if your aren't. or at least add 10 pounds.

Q

Edited August 23, 2013 by Quin

[Traveler]

The WoW is a spiritual law with some temporal benefits. I think each of us needs to learn the spiritual benefits and live by the spirit of the law, and not just the letter of the law.

I am sure to draw some ire for saying this but I believe that living a healthy life style - including eating pure and hard exercise has more spiritual benefits than physical benefits. And that living a unhealthy life style - in essence eating for pleasure and avoiding hard exercise is more spiritually damaging than it is physically damaging.

The Traveler

[Dark_Jedi]

The WoW is a spiritual law with some temporal benefits. I think each of us needs to learn the spiritual benefits and live by the spirit of the law, and not just the letter of the law.

I actually believe very few live the letter of the law (eating meat only in winter and famine, etc.). On the other hand, I'm not sure most live the spirit of the law, either. There must be some other in-between.

[Iggy]

- Ahem. Garments. Which will make you look fat even if your aren't. or at least add 10 pounds. Q

Not the ones I wear - you must be wearing 100% cotton or cotton jersey and in too large of a size.

I wear DriSilque- found I could wear one size smaller in slacks because they slide on easier.

I still say it is the Funeral Potatoes - the sisters in my neck of the woods make them with sour cream and lots of cheese.