New Era in Boulder, CO.

[FunkyTown]

Just so people are aware: I'm not posting this as a discussion on climate change, but rather to draw attention to a group of people that are claiming non-partisanship and actually embody one of the traits the Right claims that I have a tremendous amount of respect for: The power and rights of the individual.

Campaign for Local Power | Indiegogo

In Boulder, CO., a group of people have got together to push for renewable, local energy with less of a footprint.

They dedicated personal time and personal money to a cause they believed in - Not because they pushed the government to tax everyone, but because they themselves believe in renewable energy.

I'm quite proud of them for this. Obviously, people in power who have a lot to lose by smaller, more independent power companies are trying to throw roadblocks in to their way. It doesn't matter. This is the very essence of the democratic process - Individuals who care deciding to use their power as a group to do something great.

[Just_A_Guy]

Just so people are aware: I'm not posting this as a discussion on climate change, but rather to draw attention to a group of people that are claiming non-partisanship and actually embody one of the traits the Right claims that I have a tremendous amount of respect for: The power and rights of the individual.

Campaign for Local Power | Indiegogo

In Boulder, CO., a group of people have got together to push for renewable, local energy with less of a footprint.

They dedicated personal time and personal money to a cause they believed in - Not because they pushed the government to tax everyone, but because they themselves believe in renewable energy.

I'm quite proud of them for this. Obviously, people in power who have a lot to lose by smaller, more independent power companies are trying to throw roadblocks in to their way. It doesn't matter. This is the very essence of the democratic process - Individuals who care deciding to use their power as a group to do something great.

I only skimmed, but I'm not sure I see it quite the same way.

The website looks to me like a typical campaign fundraising site, trying to influence a situation where local energy policy will be dictated by a winner-take-all election. But of course, given the current model where cities basically function as utility providers, this kind of thing is probably inevitable and necessary.

Still, I think it's great that cities are exploring their options. If Boulder really thinks that it can get cleaner energy for cheaper--more power to 'em. If it works, other cities will follow. "Laboratories of democracy", and all that. :)

[NeuroTypical]

I've been impressed with the general trend of grassroots fundraising sites, where people with ideas ask for money, and people with money and a desire to help donate. What Funky said - it's a great way to bring The New Better Thing into productive reality.

And I also really, really, REALLY appreciate anything that keeps Boulder opinions out of my pocketbook. I'm tempted to donate, just to make sure they can sit there and sniff their granola juice and hug their organic trees and wax derisive at their corporate ubermench in the privacy of their own American flagless but phallic-symbol-emblazoned public libraries, in the room with all the windows so they can commune with the passing Lynx while it attacks and eats someone's surplus baby.

(Believe it or not, the only things I made up in that last paragraph are "granola juice" and "organic trees". Everything else is a genuine story emitted by Boulderites at random intervals.)

[Traveler]

There is a flaw in the premise. Cheap clean renewable energy verses greedy corporate interests??? If the concept really was cheap the greedy corporate interests would be all over it.

Public utilities do not work like regular business in competitive capitalistic conditions because they operate as a monopoly but with public regulation. So they must justify their profits. The great advantage is that they can operate with little risk because the public shares the risk of utilities.

I personally know a few people involved in public utilities. In order to have any rate increases it must be approved by the public. It is that simple. There are two reasons that the so-called clean renewable energy is not available. The answer is two reasons it is not cheap. First the infrastructure for alternate energy is more expensive and second there are no alternate energy sources that are reliable. This means that for every kind of energy source their must be a separate infrastructure to support it.

What most people do not understand about energy is that the single greatest cost of energy is not the source for producing the energy but the infrastructure that supports it and distributes the energy to individual users. Because all of the so called clean renewable sources of energy vary in source output with changing conditions (sometimes changing on an hourly basis) the infrastructure, by necessity, of the variations must be more complex and expensive and pending on the variations, it can be a LOT more expensive.

If Bolder wants their own energy - I do agree that they should be able to have what-ever energy source and distribution system they are willing to pay for. So if they want their own - then let them disconnect from the power grid and do what-ever they want.

What I personally object to is the attitude that they can do what ever they want in Bolder and then use the grid to take power from my community and subsidize their power variations during peak times and take part of what I pay for power to subsidize their pet projects.

One other important point - remember what I said about public utilities and the market place not working the same. Well we got into this mess because in many places in the west we have built hydro-electric dams that produce really cheap energy. Because most of the dams are built with national moneys on national lands - it has been decided it is unfair for western communities in the mountains to have all that cheap power for themselves - so we must share the cost of power with other areas that have of necessity more expensive power sources.

In short Bolder does not have the right to say they can have any power sources they want and not pay for it themselves but expect to be subsidized by everybody else.

The Traveler

[LittleWyvern]

I'm tempted to donate, just to make sure they can sit there and sniff their granola juice and hug their organic trees and wax derisive at their corporate ubermench in the privacy of their own American flagless but phallic-symbol-emblazoned public libraries, in the room with all the windows so they can commune with the passing Lynx while it attacks and eats someone's surplus baby.

What the heck did I just read?

Edited September 9, 2013 by LittleWyvern

[NeuroTypical]

You read my summary of Real True Actual stories that come out of Boulder.

One radio station had people drive around and see which public libraries were flying the American flag. Many weren't.

Back in 2010 or so, there was a kerfuffle about one taxpayer-subsidized art exhibit in one of the libraries - a ranbow-colored assortment of phalli.

Over the years, there have been many stories about wild animals attacking residents. Anywhere sane, there's wildlife officers and tranq darts and whatnot. In Boulder, there's passionate arguments about animal rights and how there's too many humans, and how we need to be thinned out naturally.

That's Boulder.

[LittleWyvern]

Oh, so Bolulder is some sort of satanic pit of vandalism and anti-Americanism wholly infested with hippies and man-eating wildlife who have formed a symbiotic relationship with man-hating hippies.

... I think. I'm still trying to figure out what kind of question this could possibly be the answer to.

[Traveler]

Oh, so Bolulder is some sort of satanic pit of vandalism and anti-Americanism wholly infested with hippies and man-eating wildlife who have formed a symbiotic relationship with man-hating hippies.

... I think. I'm still trying to figure out what kind of question this could possibly be the answer to.

This day and time may be a time of information - perhaps even information overload --- but I also believe this is a time and generation of extreme gullibility.

Bolder may be one of the best examples of stupidity in democracy and why I have become so prejudice of the herd mentality --- Expressed in efforts to pass legislation not based on any success criteria or any means to repeal failure to meet an objective. Obviously anyone working for this project has not actually done their homework and has fallen for propaganda over substance. I would wager to guess that not one proponent has done a cost analysis or a real environmental impact study. For example - Did anyone know that large scale wind farms can slow wind and have a climate changing impact greater than models of increased carbon in the atmosphere for same levels of energy produced?

Most of society would rather be overweight than to live a healthy life style and will be offended at any suggestion to consider changing - for economic or health reasons. It is like the farmer that had a son come home from college to help for the summer. The son, having learned new ideas and methods from college started making suggestions to his father of things that could be improved. They began to argue and the son asked his father - don't you want to know how you can improve things around the farm? The father shot back with a glare - "I already knew how to improve things around the farm without you telling me anything."

The Traveler

[bytebear]

Oh, so Bolulder is some sort of satanic pit of vandalism and anti-Americanism wholly infested with hippies and man-eating wildlife who have formed a symbiotic relationship with man-hating hippies.

Yes.

[LittleWyvern]

Yes.

Oh, ok. Thank goodness there's not like a temple there or anything.

[NeuroTypical]

The running joke is that we're building the Ft. Collins temple to join with the Denver temple to strengthen the encirclement of Boulder.

Yes, it really is that bad. You should see our state politics.

[Still_Small_Voice]

So where is Boulder, Colorado planning on getting this new energy they want? Is it from dams, solar, or wind generators? What is it?