Democratic Debate

[Dr T]

Did anybody watch the Democratic debate today? Any thoughts on what any of them said?

[JcDean78]

Here is a recap of the entire debate.

"The war is lost, Bush is evil, Bush lied, the war is lost, the war is lost, I do not have a plan, vote for me."

[sixpacktr]

Didn't see it. I'm wondering, though, if anyone saw Hillary give Obama the "look" (ala Robert DeNiro to Ben Stiller in "Meet the Parents" when he wanted him to know he was watching him).

All I can say is the Obama better be sure that he has food tasters, brake testers, and plane testers if he doesn't want to get "Vince Fostered"!

I'm fed up with all of them, Dems and Repubs. If the Repubs would grow some backbone, I MIGHT come back. Until then, I vote Libertarian...

[JcDean78]

I agree Six, but we can not go that route. We lost to Clinton in 1992 because Perot came in and took a huge chunk out of Bush Sr. If we divide our vote, we are sure to lose and be stuck with something much worse than any of the current GOP guys.

But I am with you in the fact that I am sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils.

[sixpacktr]

JC,

I know, I know, and that is why I will still vote Repub next election for the major orifices, just because I don't want Nancy, Harry or Hillary the opportunity to run completely unopposed, not that they will get much opposition. I'm tired of the Repubs not standing up for what their base wants. It is almost like they just want to be liked. Kind of like the Dimmocrats thinking that if we were just nice to the Islamofascists they'd like us...

I vote Libertarian in the local elections, and hope that someday they will gain more power. Don't agree with everything they stand for, but they are closer to my beliefs in limited gov't and personal freedom than the two major parties.

[JcDean78]

Same here really. We are on the same page. The GOP has sold us out but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My big thing is freedom to do as a person pleases. After all we believe in free agency even if they make the wrong choices and hurt themselves with that agency.

I draw the line when that agency hurts other people.

The big debate is exactly what "hurts others". Abortion is murder and thus kills another living human but they do not see it that way... they almost see it as a woman infected with a parisite. Another would be second hand smoke, which is harmful but people want to be able to smoke any place and anytime. I think smoking should be restricted in public because it does hurt others.

So in all my ideal situation would be a government which is really small and only providing the basic functions where people are free to do as they please as long as that freedom does not hurt other people.

[sixpacktr]

JC,

Yeah, that is why I am leaning more and more towards them: agency to do as we wish, as long as we don't hurt others.

However, I wonder how far that goes? For instance, gambling is a personal issue. True, it impacts families, but should the gov't restrict it (not that they do so much anymore)? And the Church came down hard on the side of not allowing gambling in the State of Utah, if I remember right.

Same with drug use. If it was safe and legal, would gangs suddenly dry up, which is the arguement. And drug use really only hurts the idiot that takes them, right (other than family and friends, but they don't feel the affects, or have the physical problems that are associated with the drug)?

Same with prostitution. I personally wouldn't do it, but in most cases, it is between consenting adults, and therefore not really any one else's business (again, except for family members, particularly spouses).

I guess I ask because sometimes I think that while gov't should be limited, they still have to come down on moral issues, which restricts freedom in a way (you can do it, but there are legal consequences if you are caught). But who determines morality? I think that is where the "Zeezrom's" of the modern world ply their trade of bait and switch, and playing on emotions, rhetoric, etc., to get these evils legalized. And then they try to take more and more.

If this country would follow the God of this Land, and his commandments, my feeling is that gov't would be limited and non-intrusive. But since we aren't, we are reaping the promises (or curses) that HF promised in the BOM.

Thoughts??

[Dr T]

LOL, Jc.

"The war is lost, Bush is evil, Bush lied, the war is lost, the war is lost, I do not have a plan, vote for me."

Good synopsis.

===

Six,

I watched it but I didn't notice "the look." I've never heard Obama speak. From what I read, I expected something different. Didn't get it though.

[Palerider]

I think the debates will liven up a bit when it starts getting close to Primary time......LOL!!!!!!!!.....and I don't mean Primary at church on sundays....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......

[CrimsonKairos]

The proper role of government is to protect equal rights, not provide equal things.

We should be free to live, exercise our liberty and pursue happiness as long as it does not infringe on the same rights of others.

What constitutes an infringement? That's why we have courts. And superior courts. And appellate courts. And the Supreme Court.

As far as the drug issue...if you legalize it then it's likely there will be more druggies which honestly takes a toll on tax-paying citizens who subsidize hospitals, health-care, police who investigate and deal with domestic abuse, thieves, etc... So arguments can be made either way.

Anyway, I can't wait until the Millenium when there will be only one candidate and one office...Jesus Christ the King!!!

[Dr T]

I can't wait until the Millenium when there will be only one candidate and one office...Jesus Christ the King!!!

That would be awesome. I thought the millenium was a time when Satan reign on Earth though. I don't know why I think that.

[CrimsonKairos]

Not sure either. Here's Revelations 20:1-4, 7...

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

[Palerider]

wow....you guys that all that info fromt he debate?????..........LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr T]

LOL, Palerider. That's good stuff. Thank you for that CK. I'll consider that a lesson. Thank you.

[Palerider]

LOL, Palerider. That's good stuff. Thank you for that CK. I'll consider that a lesson. Thank you.

you are most welcome.......LOL

[prisonchaplain]

I vote Libertarian in the local elections, and hope that someday they will gain more power. Don't agree with everything they stand for, but they are closer to my beliefs in limited gov't and personal freedom than the two major parties.

There was a time in my young life when I was impressed with Libertarians, and their Objectivist cousins (especially Ayn Rand). But, I came to see that the philosophy and politics are inherently atheistic. Like communism, there is this belief that humanity is basically good, and that left to their own devices, free people would produce a paradise, where gifted would produce unhindered, and where even the weakest would be able to find a place of at least mediocrity.

The Libertarian agenda includes: Legalizing all 'victimless crimes' (drug use, prostitution, gambling, etc.), removing American troops from any foreign lands, unless directly threatened by them, and the rapid rapid dismantling of any social safety net.

I won't go Libertarian, because, imho, it would be the greater of three evils. :-)

I can't wait until the Millenium when there will be only one candidate and one office...Jesus Christ the King!!!

That would be awesome. I thought the millenium was a time when Satan reign on Earth though. I don't know why I think that.

The 1000-year reign of Christ (Great Millenium) follows the Great Tribulation (7-year reign) of Satan, Antichrist and the Beast (note the subtle counterfeit of Trinity there?).

[Dr T]

Hmm, thank you for that PC :)

[pam]

I personally get disgusted with elections. Now mind you I know they are needed and part of our freedom to choose who we want to lead us. I just get tired of all the he said/she said....should of/could of...you're bad/no I'm not....Did he inhale? I guess basically I get tired of all the mud slinging. Just get down to the issues at hand. I'd much rather hear a politician voice their stand on issues. It completely turns me off from what those issues might be when all they can do is degrade another candidate. Now I realize that has now become the foundation of all elections (whether local or national). But I get sooooo sick of it.

[Dr T]

Me too Pam. I wonder how much it really costs to run a campaign. I'm sure it costs a lot but what happens to the money that's left over (if any)?

[Blessed]

Personally, I think we have lost our true right to vote anymore. Those who run are not really representing the average American. How can they? They have been in politics so long that they just can't relate to an average American family whose gross earnings are 75k if that and has debts up close to 20k. Families who shop at Wal-Mart and don't pay $400 for a haircut.

Those who are running don't represent my ideals and values. They just spout rhetoric and are up to plate on whatever is hot at the moment.

We may cast a vote, but in all actuality it really isn't cast for the person that will represent us... they represent themselves and themselves only.