Law of chastity understanding

[TalkativeIntrovert]

Interesting discussion with son(13) this week.

He was set apart as the Deacon's Quorum President. So he had the interview with Bishop and must have passed (phew!).

After it was done, I asked him what he was going to do now, ie what are his responsibilities. He had no idea! He had signed up to something with no knowledge of what it entailed. So now I must set aside some time to discuss with him about perhaps finding out a few details, or even just a summary, before agreeing to do something.

The other thing is that I asked him what his understanding of the Law of Chastity was, as he had answered the question that he was obeying this law. He said it was not having sex outside of marriage and not looking at pictures of people naked. That was it.

I told him that it was a bit more than that and that it also included being modest, masturbation and keeping your thoughts wholesome. He was very embarrassed and horrified, possibly more because I was speaking to him about it, rather than the content. We have missed a lot of church for varying reasons, but I am surprised of his understanding of this law.

Anyway, do you think kids really understand these concepts? Is the message softened so much at church that they are not getting it, or I wonder if he just missed the lesson(s).

[Dravin]

Anyway, do you think kids really understand these concepts?

"Really understand" is one of those phrases that can be loaded with so much meaning. Putting that aside I think that yes, children are capable of understanding the doctrine of the Law of Chastity, at age appropriate levels.

Is the message softened so much at church that they are not getting it, or I wonder if he just missed the lesson(s).

The primary responsibility for the teaching of children the Law of Chastity, and the Gospel in general, rests upon parents. This is not to say that teachers at Church cannot possibly improve on how they approach the Law of Chastity, I think discomfort with the subject can reduce effectiveness, , but even if the teachers at Church were dropping the ball collectively parents should be making sure it is taught and understood. I commend you for having this conversation with your son.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Dravin

[bytebear]

I always thinks when teaching anything, the "why" is as important as the "what".

[beefche]

Interesting discussion with son(13) this week.

Anyway, do you think kids really understand these concepts? Is the message softened so much at church that they are not getting it, or I wonder if he just missed the lesson(s).

You do understand that it is not the Church's responsibility to teach your son, right? The church is there to support and supplement your teachings. It is your responsibility to teach your children righteousness and help them to understand the doctrines.

Please see D&C 68:25 (and beyond).

[Guest]

Family Home Evening.

[Lakumi]

Family Home Evening.

when I move out, do I just ignore that one?

(do I ignore it now since my family doesn't much like rigid times)?

[MrShorty]

Anyway, do you think kids really understand these concepts? Is the message softened so much at church that they are not getting it, or I wonder if he just missed the lesson(s).

Sometimes I wonder if I (middle aged married man) really understand these concepts, let alone whether I think a deacon early in adolescence can really understand these concepts.

If Laura Brotherson's "good girl syndrome" is as prevalent as some think it is (both in men and women), some would ask if the church is being too harsh on the subject and needs to soften their tone further.

This is where I think Beefche's comment is most pertinent. Parents are perhaps in the best position to know their child and what lessons and details the child should know, rather than expecting the institutional church to cover all of these topics.

[Guest]

By the way, this is just my opinion so please take it for what it's worth...

I believe that if my child is embarassed to talk about something to me then something is wrong. My children are 10 and 12 and we talk about very sacred things and very stupid things without feeling awkward.

[ChronoTrigger]

Pam shouldn't you lock this thread, if you locked mine?

[Praetorian_Brow]

People confuse sacred with secret or taboo, which leads to many people wrongly assuming that discussing the topic will lead to experimentation, a lack of respect or an insatiable new appetite.

My parents treated this subject as taboo, so I was not informed at all and learned it through the hard knocks of life, I learned about it from friends, books, phys ed class and the internet, which is the wrong way to learn about the birds and the bees as there is no respect taught and led to much emotional and spiritual turmoil. Choices were my own, but an ounce of wisdom can prevent a lifetime of misery.

Educate your kids! Barring that, I think church doctrine should treat the subject with a bit more hands on, than simply glossing it over and having another generation live in ignorance or go the opposite way, leave the church for physical appetites or even worse, lie about their activities to remain "worthy".

[skippy740]

Pam shouldn't you lock this thread, if you locked mine?

This thread is talking about teaching children about gospel principles behind the Law of Chastity.

Your thread was talking about sexual acts and the sins of adultery. In that case, it was clear that it was against the new forum rule regarding sexual discussion. In that forum rule, the recommended course of action is given: counsel with your Bishop.

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-net-admin-alerts/55745-new-rules-sexual-discussions.html#post773596

These are two very different discussions.

[classylady]

By the way, this is just my opinion so please take it for what it's worth...

I believe that if my child is embarassed to talk about something to me then something is wrong. My children are 10 and 12 and we talk about very sacred things and very stupid things without feeling awkward.

My mom tried to talk to me, like she was able to with her six other children. I didn't allow her the chance. If she would bring up the subject of the birds and bees, or even maturation, I would leave the room. I don't know why I wouldn't allow her to talk to me about things like that. Maybe I was too private. I don't know. Some of it was embarrassment, but I'm not embarrassed about those subjects now. I never told her when I started my period. I would buy my own supplies, same with bras. I must have been an "impossible" child/teenager, though I was never one to talk back or run wild. I was envious of my friends and their relationships with their mothers. And it wasn't that my mother didn't try, I simply wouldn't let her talk to me about private issues.

[Misshalfway]

Anyway, do you think kids really understand these concepts? Is the message softened so much at church that they are not getting it, or I wonder if he just missed the lesson(s).

Do I think kids "really understand"? What does that even mean? Considering that I educate adults in my office routinely, I would say no. And I would also say that it's ok that they don't "really understand". ALL of us learn line upon line.

I'm more concerned that you seem to want the church to do the educating on these sensitive subjects. Let me say that 10 times over. Such discussions are more suited towards older groups maybe. But it really should start at home. The fact that your son, at age 12, didn't understand isn't of worry at all. It just means it's time to man up and have "the talk". And not just one! Lots of them over time that include age appropriate information and loads of modeling about how to approach human sexuality and sexual development. If you feel shame and teach perfectionism, your child will adopt that. If your child is embarrassed, that would be NORMAL. Teach your kid how to be embarrassed in your presence. If you get all wiggy, or if you get shaming, or if you freak when they tell you they've made a mistake, well....then perhaps there are some line upon lines waiting for you to learn.

PS. It wouldn't hurt to throw in some guidelines about the dangers of the internet and appropriate use of handheld electronics.

Edited October 10, 2013 by pam
New site rules with some subjects not to be discussed.

[TalkativeIntrovert]

The issue in our family is not being part of the church for long and only recently being active. Son was baptised last year at 12, he had the missionary lessons, and it either wasn't made clear there, or he ignored it!

I have taught him, and the other children about sexuality, along the lines of the sex ed at school, and the special sex ed classes held outside school hours, he knows exactly what all those things are, the thing he did not understand is the tie in with the law of chastity. We have always been open with them from when they could talk basically.

He gets embarrassed, as do my girls, regardless of how open we have been. I was the same as a teen, I don't think it is uncommon to not want to talk about sexual matters with your parents. Doesn't mean you don't do it, it just means they are uncomfortable.

With teaching church doctrine at home, I feel that without reinforcement at church, it is ineffective and vice versa. We have had a FHE lesson on The Law of Chastity, but obviously it wasn't enough and perhaps with no church back up lesson it didn't sink in. Our FHE lessons tend to be a waste of time anyway as there is a problem with sabotage, but that's another story.

I find myself often talking about "What the church believes", "What seems to be the norm in society" and how that fits together. Often, I don't even know if I have that right - and often I find my personal views different to the "church way" and in conflict at how to reconcile.

In relief society this week the lesson was modesty. I related how when I was investigating and was newly converted that lesson would have been beneficial as I was wearing inappropriate clothing to church and I wasn't aware. I asked the sister missionaries in the room if they taught that lesson and they said they do include it but the male missionaries often didn't as they were uncomfortable. That leaves a lot of people with an incomplete knowledge of a subject that would make them fit in better and feel more comfortable.

Interestingly, I have spoken to my inactive, church born husband about some of these things and asked him why he didn't tell me about the clothing at least - he said he didn't know about it!

So the bottom line is that our family has no idea. It is pretty hard to teach your children correctly when we (I) don't have the knowledge ourselves. That is why I have higher expectations of the teachings at church. Obviously I am wrong there.

Visiting teachers are not effective in our family (before anyone suggest them!) as they seem to focus solely on trying to bring my husband back to church - regardless of what we tell them about his stance.

So it seems from the responses here, and my observations, this is a convert issue rather than a born-into-the-church issue. Which leads me to believe that I am not the only one with these types of issues, and gives me a better understanding of why my son didn't know.

Thanks for all the feedback!

[Dravin]

I asked the sister missionaries in the room if they taught that lesson and they said they do include it but the male missionaries often didn't as they were uncomfortable. That leaves a lot of people with an incomplete knowledge of a subject that would make them fit in better and feel more comfortable.

I and every male missionary I worked with taught about modesty and appropriate Sunday dress. So if there is indeed a mission where Elders are shying away from teaching those things don't assume such is the case for all the missions in the Church.

Interestingly, I have spoken to my inactive, church born husband about some of these things and asked him why he didn't tell me about the clothing at least - he said he didn't know about it!

As a practical manner lessons on modesty for men tend to be much more abbreviated than those for women. As modesty pertains to dress men's fashion tends are much more modest than women's so it's a much shorter aspect of the lesson to go over with men. You're not really going to get discussion for bare shoulders, midriffs, backs, high skirts or various other issues that simply aren't an issue with the vast majority of your standard (American) male's wardrobe or potential wardrobe. The lessons intended for women tend to go into those things.

So the bottom line is that our family has no idea. It is pretty hard to teach your children correctly when we (I) don't have the knowledge ourselves.

The Gospel Principles Manual and For The Strength of Youth are two great resources for a basic overview of doctrines and standards.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Dravin

[Lakumi]

I got one of those (Gospel Principles), read it and its now a doll coffee table... my book shelf isn't built yet...oh if they only knew... they'd be furious

[Guest]

when I move out, do I just ignore that one?

(do I ignore it now since my family doesn't much like rigid times)?

They don't have to be members for your to spend FHE time with them. Also, your ward can be your family. There are lots of people in the ward that could use some company for FHE. And FHE doesn't have to be a specific time on a specific day. The only reason why it is set as Monday is because the Church set it aside for family and therefore, none of the callings - including Prophet/GA/Stake President/Bishop etc., does anything on Mondays.

[SoaringEagle]

The issue in our family is not being part of the church for long and only recently being active. Son was baptised last year at 12, he had the missionary lessons, and it either wasn't made clear there, or he ignored it!

My experience with the missionary lessons on the Law of Chastity was being handed the booklet and coming to the next lesson with the missionaries hoping I read it on my own. I was asked if I had any questions and that was the extent of the lesson. I do not fault the missionaries because it can be a very embarassing topic to discuss with a single female.

[Misshalfway]

I just wanted to apologize, Introvert. I didn't realize that you are new to the church. I totally see why this would be confusing and concerning. I can hear myself saying the same things if I were new. It is frustrating when you are expected to "just know". I'm sorry for that.

I really like and use the "For the strength of youth" pamphlet with my kids. It does a lot of the work for me, I guess. I know my kids understand it and I know their teachers are referring to it a lot in church. So, I try to build on that. And the language is specific without being explicit or too "educational". It helps me stay age appropriate. I like resources for FHE lessons too.

For adult study, I really like conference talks on the subject. And LDS.org makes it so easy to search by topic. Conference talks have really helped my understanding and testimony grow on the LofC subject.

Beyond that, I just try to keep the conversation open with my kids. It feels like with all the corruption and easy access in this day and age, I've got to be vigilant all the time! I'm horrified to discover what my kids are exposed too. Completely different than when I was young. And I thought it was hard then!

You are doing good, introvert. Prolly better than you think. It gets easier. I promise.

[Lakumi]

They don't have to be members for your to spend FHE time with them. Also, your ward can be your family. There are lots of people in the ward that could use some company for FHE. And FHE doesn't have to be a specific time on a specific day. The only reason why it is set as Monday is because the Church set it aside for family and therefore, none of the callings - including Prophet/GA/Stake President/Bishop etc., does anything on Mondays.

oooh I would imagine there are better people then me they'd want to be around

I mean sometimes I desire like social stuff because I feel alone, but that fades fast since, I feel lonely around anyone really, since no one is like me)

but that's life

Edited October 10, 2013 by Lakumi

[Guest]

oooh I would imagine there are better people then me they'd want to be around

No... of course they want you, even just for them to feel superior. :D

[Lakumi]

My experience with the missionary lessons on the Law of Chastity was being handed the booklet and coming to the next lesson with the missionaries hoping I read it on my own. I was asked if I had any questions and that was the extent of the lesson. I do not fault the missionaries because it can be a very embarassing topic to discuss with a single female.

it was brought up but they never asked if I had any questions, maybe they knew my failures past:lol: