How can I learn to love my friend who looks at porn?

[mrmarklin]

I can very nearly guarantee you that you are friends with someone who struggles with pornography addiction, they just haven't revealed it to you. I'll even wager you are friends with some one who struggles with a prescription drug problem.

I have acquaintances that have these problems, but I'm not inviting any of them on my next travel adventure.

I know all kinds of crazy people from serial cheaters, to adulterers, to embezzelers, druggies and yes porno types. Mostly through business associations. But they're not my friends.

[Praetorian_Brow]

If I judged all those around me as being unfit to be my friends, simply because I knew something about them that I didn't agree with, then I wouldn't have any friends at all.

Just because someone was honest about themselves, doesn't mean that they are less worthy of being a friend than the majority who lie and keep their problems a secret, or act hypocritically.

Everyone is a quality person, much like everyone is a son or daughter of God, even if we know about their poor choices that they are asking for help and understanding with by being honest and upfront.

I am more afraid of the friends that deny they have any issues, as they are far more likely to encourage negative behaviours than the ones who admit to issues. Plus, if they were honest with me, it means they trust me, which is what a good friend is. I highly doubt you're in a position to judge yourself.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Praetorian_Brow

[McLainDow]

Read up on the plan of salvation. It is easier to love others when when one remembers that we are all children of the same heavenly father.

[Misshalfway]

Read up on the plan of salvation. It is easier to love others when when one remembers that we are all children of the same heavenly father.

Loving people is one thing. Giving them access is another.

God doesn't stop loving his sinful children, but he restricts their access.

It isn't unloving if my 16 year old daughter chooses not to associate with someone struggling with sexual problems. It's protective. And I'll tell you.....if she doesn't restrict access, I will.

[mrmarklin]

It isn't unloving if my 16 year old daughter chooses not to associate with someone struggling with sexual problems. It's protective. And I'll tell you.....if she doesn't restrict access, I will.

(fixed)

This was my point all along.:)

[Misshalfway]

My friend looks at porn and now that I know this, it makes me uncomfortable to be around him. Being a girl I just feel really disgusted and I'm having the hardest time learning to love him. What can I do to be more Christlike and learn to love my friend and not feel so weird around him?

Hi Kenzers7.

I don't think you should apologize for feeling disgusted. Feeling disgusted would be an appropriate response to something that is disgusting. I'm going to agree with you. Porn is disgusting. And when we find out our friends are doing that, it's sometimes hard not to question whether or not they are still the person we thought they were. I love it that you care so much about your friend. I love it that you want to be a loving person. All of that says so much about who you really are.

In 9th grade, I had a good friend. We'd hang during lunch and had fun at debate tournaments together. One day he asked to me lie for him because he'd been drinking alcohol and didn't want to get in trouble. I did some research and found out he was drinking a lot. I realized that his influence wasn't good for me, and I distanced myself from him. I wasn't mean. I didn't stop loving him, but I did do what was in my best self interest. I knew I couldn't trust him to be a good friend to me. I knew he wouldn't protect me and might expose me to situations that weren't the best even though he was nice and funny.

I don't know your friend. I don't know what the circumstances are surrounding your friends issues. What I will tell you is to listen to the spirit and listen to your gut instincts. Learning the lessons of love and tolerance and long suffering are really good things but not if they require us to compromise our standards or our boundaries. So while you are figuring out how not to judge your friend, don't turn off gut feelings that might be there to lead you in wise directions.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Misshalfway

[derblitzenator]

Read up on the plan of salvation. It is easier to love others when when one remembers that we are all children of the same heavenly father.

Here's a sampling of what Uchtdorf had to say:

"But when it comes to our own prejudices and grievances, we too often justify...our judgment as reliable and only appropriate. Though we cannot look into another’s heart, we assume that we know a bad motive or even a bad person when we see one. We make exceptions when it comes to our own bitterness because we feel that, in our case, we have all the information we need to hold someone else in contempt.

We simply have to stop judging others and replace judgmental thoughts and feelings with a heart full of love for God and His children. God is our Father. We are His children. We are all brothers and sisters. I don’t know exactly how to articulate this point of not judging others with sufficient eloquence, passion, and persuasion to make it stick. I can quote scripture, I can try to expound doctrine, and I will even quote a bumper sticker I recently saw. It was attached to the back of a car whose driver appeared to be a little rough around the edges, but the words on the sticker taught an insightful lesson. It read, “Don’t judge me because I sin differently than you.”

This was one of his key questions:

Do you exclude, push away, or punish others because of something they have done?

[derblitzenator]

Loving people is one thing. Giving them access is another.

God doesn't stop loving his sinful children, but he restricts their access.

It isn't unloving if my 16 year old daughter chooses not to associate with someone struggling with sexual problems. It's protective. And I'll tell you.....if she doesn't restrict access, I will.

Doesn't everybody have things they struggle with? Do we all not do things that drive away the Spirit? I would love to know the justification why looking at porn makes somebody not worthy of your daughter's association? Why not somebody who watches violent movies? or somebody who forgets to pay his tithing or doesn't read scriptures? They might not have the Spirit with them either. Most importantly, how can you prevent her from associating with anybody that struggles with the Law of Chastity if you aren't even on notice in the first place? Most people aren't exactly shouting their issues from the rooftops. What if a boy she knows commits self-abuse once per week? Yet, the rest of the week he is polite, good hearted, etc.

You either must think that somehow the person will introduce your daughter to porn or that he'll turn into a rapist. Either logical leap is far fetched at best. Please provide additional insight as to what you are afraid of.

[McLainDow]

Loving people is one thing. Giving them access is another.

God doesn't stop loving his sinful children, but he restricts their access.

It isn't unloving if my 16 year old daughter chooses not to associate with someone struggling with sexual problems. It's protective. And I'll tell you.....if she doesn't restrict access, I will.

1. God doesn't restrict anyone's access. We distance ourselves from him through our actions.

2. I mentioned nothing about her having contact with the person looking at porn. She asked how she could learn to love him better and I answered her question.

[McLainDow]

Here's a sampling of what Uchtdorf had to say:

"But when it comes to our own prejudices and grievances, we too often justify...our judgment as reliable and only appropriate. Though we cannot look into another’s heart, we assume that we know a bad motive or even a bad person when we see one. We make exceptions when it comes to our own bitterness because we feel that, in our case, we have all the information we need to hold someone else in contempt.

We simply have to stop judging others and replace judgmental thoughts and feelings with a heart full of love for God and His children. God is our Father. We are His children. We are all brothers and sisters. I don’t know exactly how to articulate this point of not judging others with sufficient eloquence, passion, and persuasion to make it stick. I can quote scripture, I can try to expound doctrine, and I will even quote a bumper sticker I recently saw. It was attached to the back of a car whose driver appeared to be a little rough around the edges, but the words on the sticker taught an insightful lesson. It read, “Don’t judge me because I sin differently than you.”

This was one of his key questions:

Do you exclude, push away, or punish others because of something they have done?

Yes, that was my favorite talk of general conference. I think he said a lot of things that needed to be said. Elder Hoilland's talk was fantastic as well.

[Still_Small_Voice]

Wasn't Mary Magdalene a prostitute?

James Talmage refutes this idea. Please read below what he wrote on the subject:

Mary Magdalene became one of the closest friends Christ had among women; her devotion to Him as her Healer and as the One whom she adored as the Christ, was unswerving; she stood close by the cross while other women tarried afar off in the time of His mortal agony; she was among the first at the sepulchre on the resurrection morning, and was the first mortal to look upon and recognize a resurrected Being—the Lord whom she had loved with all the fervor of spiritual adoration.

To say that this woman, chosen from among women as deserving of such distinctive honors, was once a fallen creature, her soul seared by the heat of unhallowed lust, is to contribute to the perpetuating of an error for which there is no excuse. Nevertheless the false tradition, arising from early and unjustifiable assumption, that this noble woman, distinctively a friend of the Lord, is the same who, admittedly a sinner, washed and anointed the Savior's feet in the house of Simon the Pharisee and gained the boon of forgiveness through contrition, has so tenaciously held its place in the popular mind through the centuries, that the name, Magdalene, has come to be a generic designation for women who fall from virtue and afterward repent.

We are not considering whether the mercy of Christ could have been extended to such a sinner as Mary of Magdala is wrongly reputed to have been; man cannot measure the bounds nor fathom the depths of divine forgiveness; and if it were so that this Mary and the repentant sinner who ministered to Jesus as He sat at the Pharisee's table were one and the same, the question would stand affirmatively answered, for that woman who had been a sinner was forgiven. We are dealing with the scriptural record as a history, and nothing said therein warrants the really repellent though common imputation of unchastity to the devoted soul of Mary Magdalene. -- Jesus The Christ, pages 264 - 265

[Vort]

To say that this woman, chosen from among women as deserving of such distinctive honors, was once a fallen creature, her soul seared by the heat of unhallowed lust, is to contribute to the perpetuating of an error for which there is no excuse.

I doubt most prostitutes engage in their profession out of carnal lust.

[McLainDow]

I doubt most prostitutes engage in their profession out of carnal lust.

This is true. Most people who are prostitutes are victims of abuse.

[Misshalfway]

Doesn't everybody have things they struggle with? Do we all not do things that drive away the Spirit? I would love to know the justification why looking at porn makes somebody not worthy of your daughter's association? Why not somebody who watches violent movies? or somebody who forgets to pay his tithing or doesn't read scriptures? They might not have the Spirit with them either. Most importantly, how can you prevent her from associating with anybody that struggles with the Law of Chastity if you aren't even on notice in the first place? Most people aren't exactly shouting their issues from the rooftops. What if a boy she knows commits self-abuse once per week? Yet, the rest of the week he is polite, good hearted, etc.

You either must think that somehow the person will introduce your daughter to porn or that he'll turn into a rapist. Either logical leap is far fetched at best. Please provide additional insight as to what you are afraid of.

Yeah... I can see I need to clarify. I jumped in with that comment sort of hard and fast without much explanation about my headspace.

I'm not saying that people who use porn are bad. I'm not saying that people who use porn even have a problem with it. I have no idea if the OP's friend looked at porn once or if he has a serious compulsive problem.

I was just thinking that loving people is so important and certainly fundamental to making the world a better place. But such doesn't require us to forgo proper discernment, discretion, and potentially necessary boundary setting. The OP asked how she could love her friend. I guess I wanted to add this wrinkle to the discussion. The Lord loves everyone but he doesn't change his commandments/restrictions/limitations based on popular opinion or whether or not someone's feelings are hurt. If my daughter doesn't want to date a porn addict, it's ok. It isn't mean or judgmental to act in ones best self interest.

Please understand I'm not suggesting any sort of overreaction. Such isn't loving or healing or helpful. What I am saying is that it's ok to set some boundaries if necessary. Loving people doesn't necessarily mean that we should trust them. I know many who have struggled with minor and serious problems in this regard. Most are really good people who are easy to love. Others are well....confused and kinda scary. All deserve love, belonging, and respect. But not all should be trusted. Some less than others certainly.

And while I don't equate porn use with being a rapist.... sadly, I don't think that my concerns are that far fetched. My son was exposed to porn for the first time from his friends...the boys who live in our neighborhood, who come from good LDS families, and who often clean out my pantry on Friday afternoons. Are they good boys? Sure. Do I trust their judgment all the time? Nope. Do I think they need guidance and supervision and limits? You bet your bippy.

[Misshalfway]

1. God doesn't restrict anyone's access. We distance ourselves from him through our actions.

2. I mentioned nothing about her having contact with the person looking at porn. She asked how she could learn to love him better and I answered her question.

1) Ok. I'm not sure I see it exactly that way, but I see your point. Our behaviors certainly can disqualify us from blessings and separate us from God. But access to all God would give us is about more than that I think. The temple is a good example. Access is restricted. Not because people are sinful necessarily but because God requires more so he can bless with more. Maybe it would be more appropriate to say access is conditional.

2) Yeah, I get that. I appreciated your answer to her. I made my comment imagining a very specific hypothetical scenario. I didn't do so well at clarifying that. Sorry.

[Lakumi]

This is true. Most people who are prostitutes are victims of abuse.

or because they have no other ways of making money

[derblitzenator]

Yeah... I can see I need to clarify. I jumped in with that comment sort of hard and fast without much explanation about my headspace.

I'm not saying that people who use porn are bad. I'm not saying that people who use porn even have a problem with it. I have no idea if the OP's friend looked at porn once or if he has a serious compulsive problem.

I was just thinking that loving people is so important and certainly fundamental to making the world a better place. But such doesn't require us to forgo proper discernment, discretion, and potentially necessary boundary setting. The OP asked how she could love her friend. I guess I wanted to add this wrinkle to the discussion. The Lord loves everyone but he doesn't change his commandments/restrictions/limitations based on popular opinion or whether or not someone's feelings are hurt. If my daughter doesn't want to date a porn addict, it's ok. It isn't mean or judgmental to act in ones best self interest.

Please understand I'm not suggesting any sort of overreaction. Such isn't loving or healing or helpful. What I am saying is that it's ok to set some boundaries if necessary. Loving people doesn't necessarily mean that we should trust them. I know many who have struggled with minor and serious problems in this regard. Most are really good people who are easy to love. Others are well....confused and kinda scary. All deserve love, belonging, and respect. But not all should be trusted. Some less than others certainly.

And while I don't equate porn use with being a rapist.... sadly, I don't think that my concerns are that far fetched. My son was exposed to porn for the first time from his friends...the boys who live in our neighborhood, who come from good LDS families, and who often clean out my pantry on Friday afternoons. Are they good boys? Sure. Do I trust their judgment all the time? Nope. Do I think they need guidance and supervision and limits? You bet your bippy.

First of all, I appreciate the thoughtful response. I do have a couple comments though.

There is a big difference in a girl having someone as a friend with porn issues and someone who she is dating. The "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet advocates dating someone of like standards. Porn use would be a big red flag in that regard. On the other hand, reaching out in friendship to anyone with issues in general is not necessarily a bad thing.

Like your son, as a teenager there were a couple kids on my street who were unsupervised and were given access to movie channels with adult movies. My brother and I were invited to watch one day, but guess what? We declined and then drew some boundaries in our relationship from then on. That's basically the same thing I'd do as an adult if someone offered me something outside my moral boundaries. Pretty soon the entire neighborhood knew that we had LDS standards. We never again were offered anything like alcohol, bad movies, etc. We weren't always invited to parties either, but when it was time to start a baseball or football game we were the first ones picked. The neighborhoods kids respected us and to this day, several of the neighbor kids were really happy that they had good influences on them.

The question of friendship for me comes down to whether the person will respect me and the boundaries I set up. If the person tries to bring me down or can't respect boundaries, then I walk away from the friendship. If they respect the boundaries no matter what their issues may be, the friendship might have a chance. I've had dozens of friends with different standards who were really great friends, nonetheless. Sometimes personalities mesh even though we have different backgrounds and different life trajectories.

My friends are a diverse group that aren't all cookie cutter LDS standards. I think it's prudent to learn early how to set boundaries in relationship, but at the same time not exclude someone from my life merely because they have different standards. Some of my siblings have close friends who got baptized primarily because they were so inclusive of them who were struggling when they first met. Eventually, those friends wanted what my siblings had and investigated the church and changed their life. This may not happen to very many, but it certainly gives the church a good name when members are inclusive rather than judgmental of their neighbors.

[Vort]

This is true. Most people who are prostitutes are victims of abuse.

or because they have no other ways of making money

Hmm. Those two things are in fact the main reasons trotted out to explain prostitution, but I am not convinced. I don't believe it's primarily carnal lust in overdrive that drives women to prostitution; I would be surprised if that were a factor in more than a small number of cases. But I'm not convinced that most prostitutes are abuse victims (unless you consider prostitution itself a form of abuse, in which case it's a tautology) or just can't find any other way of earning money.

I am of the vague opinion that there are three major reasons convincing women to prostitute themselves:

1. Drug usage. Women strung out on heroin or meth will sometimes do almost anything for their next fix, and prostitution is easy, convenient method for getting money (see #3).

2. Virtual modern slavery. I don't know how prevalent it is, but at least some prostitutes are at the mercy of their pimps/boyfriends/parents/smugglers, and are prostitutes by force rather than by choice. I suppose this would fall under the "abuse" category.

3. Good pay. Again, I don't know how prevalent it is, but some women are overjoyed by the fact that they can charge professional-level wages for having sex with some random guy. Sure beats working at McDonald's, at least in their mind. I have read accounts of college coeds who brag (though anonymously) that they are paying (or laying) their way through college by prostituting themselves.

[Lakumi]

yes all those are reasons as well...so you and I are both right...

how did my response get above the post I was responding to?!

Edited October 17, 2013 by Lakumi

[Vort]

This is true. Most people who are prostitutes are victims of abuse.

or because they have no other ways of making money

Hmm. Those two things are in fact the main reasons trotted out to explain prostitution, but I am not convinced. I don't believe it's primarily carnal lust in overdrive that drives women to prostitution; I would be surprised if that were a factor in more than a small number of cases. But I'm not convinced that most prostitutes are abuse victims (unless you consider prostitution itself a form of abuse, in which case it's a tautology) or just can't find any other way of earning money.

I am of the vague, uninformed opinion that there are three major reasons convincing women to prostitute themselves:

1. Drug usage. Women strung out on heroin or meth will sometimes do almost anything for their next fix, and prostitution is easy, convenient method for getting money (see #3).

2. Virtual modern slavery. I don't know how prevalent it is, but at least some prostitutes are at the mercy of their pimps/boyfriends/parents/smugglers, and are prostitutes by force rather than by choice. I suppose this would fall under the "abuse" category.

3. Good pay. Again, I don't know how prevalent it is, but some women are overjoyed by the fact that they can charge professional-level wages for having sex with some random guy. Sure beats working at McDonald's, at least in their mind. I have read accounts of college coeds who brag (though anonymously) that they are paying (or laying) their way through college by prostituting themselves.