Excess

[JcDean78]

Porsche has never done it for me. I don't like most of them. SUV's offers room for my wife and four children and storage. :) The Lexis parallel parks on its own now.

Have you ever drove one? I have and they are awesome. However for the money you can get several other cars that would be just as good for half the price. Personally my fav of the lower end sports cars would be the Nissan 350z... though I would rather just have a Honda Accord or some other "family" car.

[StrawberryFields]

Hubby got his Porsche in Sept. we flew to Arizona to pick it up. We drove it back home to Utah the next day and I drove it for less than 5 mins just so I could say I had driven it second. I have yet to drive it again it just isn't something I aspire to do. It is interesting to watch others look at us as we drive it. Many stop whatever they are doing to stop and look. I especially like to watch little children who jump up and down as we drive by. One of my best friends children ask her to ask me what it felt like to ride in a Porsche...lol. I am much easier to please. I am very very happy in my 97 Mercedes E420 it's very dependable and rides like a dream. :) We don't make payments on these cars either. The thing I hate about riding in the Porsche is the animosity of some drivers. Many want to race but we just laugh and he has never raced anyone with me in the car. Some drivers would just like to push us off the road. It's interesting to watch someone who doesn't even know you treat you so poorly because of what you drive.

[TimA.]

Kudos to those who believe that paying extra for hybrid cars, or driving small vehicles, or living in compact housing will help the poor and the earth, and so do so. Agency (free will) is a wonderful thing!

Yes free agancy is a wonderful thing and very much misunderstood I fear. I think it means I am an agent controlling someone elses property and I will one day be asked did I use it as They would have me do or did I consume it on my own lust?

Tim

[Dr T]

No, JcDean, I've never driven one. Some of the top end ones are pretty cool but many of them I see as a glorified Volkswagen.

[StrawberryFields]

A Boxter Porsche is a Porsche with panties according to my hubby. B)

[TimA.]

I would define excess as that which could be used to build the Kingdom of the LORD, but is spent on selfish desires. If a $100,000 Mercedes will glorify the LORD, then do it to it. But if we can't buy that car and build the kingdom in the same act, then we must think again.

'But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.' (Matt 6:33)

-a-train

a-train,

I like your definition very much!

I think we each have to make these decisions for ourself with the help of the Spirit and I think your guide line there is very helpful in finding the Spirit of God on the matter. Thanks!

Tim

[Outshined]

Some of the top end ones are pretty cool but many of them I see as a glorified Volkswagen.

Both were designed by the same man, of course...

[Dr T]

Yes. The company split in development.

[Guest Username-Removed]

<div class='quotemain'>

I would define excess as that which could be used to build the Kingdom of the LORD, but is spent on selfish desires. If a $100,000 Mercedes will glorify the LORD, then do it to it. But if we can't buy that car and build the kingdom in the same act, then we must think again.

'But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.' (Matt 6:33)

-a-train

a-train,

I like your definition very much!

I think we each have to make these decisions for ourself with the help of the Spirit and I think your guide line there is very helpful in finding the Spirit of God on the matter. Thanks!

Tim

For me the best part, and the simplest way to align yourself with correct priorities in terms of wealth is that scripture ....

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

To me, that means that we dont let wealth get in the way of God and his rightousness, If God is first, then he will bless us even further, and we will bless those around us more. I think we need to use wealth as a catalyst to furthering God's plan. When we do, he will use us, and trust us with even more!!!!!

As far as cars, I dont have any problem with people buying what they want. For me, I know that my priorities are to have a Honda Wagon with 180,000 miles on it! And I consider that an abosolute blessing!! Because I have no car payment and I am able to meet my other obligations with Child Support and tithing. If I met those and still had tons of money aside for everything else I needed, there's nothing wrong with me getting a nice car, in my opinion. I have many very rich friends, and I dont have a problem with thier wealth, nor do I envy it.

JMHO

[Gwen]

in honor of all the car talk here, i have to put this joke i came across.

A hobo comes up to the front door of a neat looking farmhouse and raps gently on the door. When the farm owner answers, the hobo asks him, "Please, sir, could you give me something to eat? I haven't had a good meal in several days."

The owner says, "I have made a fortune in my lifetime by supplying goods for people. I've never given anything away for nothing. However, if you go around the back, you will see a gallon of paint and a clean paint brush. If you will paint my porch, I will give you a good meal."

So the hobo goes around back and a while later he again knocks on the door. The owner says, "Finished already? Good. Come on in. Sit down. The cook will bring your meal right in."

The hobo says, "Thank you very much, sir. But there's something that I think you should know. It's not a Porche you got there. It's a BMW."

[Dr T]

That's good.

[BenRaines]

An often misquoted scripture reads:

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil.

Money is not the root of all evil but the love of money.

I could go on an on about those who have much more than I do and give to charity. I have been poor in income enough to need church assistance and had enough to share beyond what is asked.

I think we have more of envy of others with money than a desire for them to do good with their money.

Ben Raines

[Blessed]

I attended an Assembly of God for a while and there during offetory time the pastor always prayed for more resources so that we might effectlively use it for the kingdom of God. He always stressed not to compare with who had what or naught, because if we all directed our monies to the glory of God... how much could we really do?

I always liked that.

[Dr T]

I agree Ben. The "love of"...

[Guest mamacat]

<div class='quotemain'>

We grow strawberries, tayberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, rhubarb, and asparagus.

Before my dad's brain injury, he also grew corn, squash, lettuce, carrots, snow peas, peas, kholrabi (sp?), red and white onions, turnips and spinach.

:thumbsup:

i can't express how thrilled i was to learn of the LDS practice of home growing food and self-sustaining initiatives. i also love the community support for this. one of my favorite areas of interest is in organic and biodynamic gardening, as well as permaculture. this all fits so seamlessly with all the LDS practices i have found in these areas....cause for excitement for me. :)

lol, i am enthralled with the unusual things i suppose.

Mamacat,

I believe that you and I are kindred spirits. I very much enjoyed the material you posted Thanks!

Tim

:)

thank you very much Tim....i am so pleased that enjoyed it. do tell more about your garden....

[TimA.]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

We grow strawberries, tayberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, rhubarb, and asparagus.

Before my dad's brain injury, he also grew corn, squash, lettuce, carrots, snow peas, peas, kholrabi (sp?), red and white onions, turnips and spinach.

:thumbsup:

i can't express how thrilled i was to learn of the LDS practice of home growing food and self-sustaining initiatives. i also love the community support for this. one of my favorite areas of interest is in organic and biodynamic gardening, as well as permaculture. this all fits so seamlessly with all the LDS practices i have found in these areas....cause for excitement for me. :)

lol, i am enthralled with the unusual things i suppose.

Mamacat,

I believe that you and I are kindred spirits. I very much enjoyed the material you posted Thanks!

Tim

:)

thank you very much Tim....i am so pleased that enjoyed it. do tell more about your garden....

I believe that was CrimsonKairos that spoke of his and his families garden not me. I do make an attemnpt at gardening though I am not very goos at it. Thanks again and thanks to you too Blessed it is good to know I am not the only one who thinks about and believes things like this! :)

Tim

Tim

[TimA.]

I think we have more of envy of others with money than a desire for them to do good with their money.

Ben Raines

No doubt you may well be right about that Ben. I think this scripture speaks to that issue:

D&C 56: 17

17 Wo unto you poor men, whose hearts are not broken, whose spirits are not contrite, and whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from laying hold upon other men’s goods, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not labor with your own hands!

The fact that there are those that envy and are greedy for what they did not work for does in no way relieve those who have much because of their much indistry to make right choices with how they used it. The verse right before that one I think speaks to that also I think. :

D&C 56:16 Wo unto you rich men, that will not give your substance to the poor, for your riches will canker your souls; and this shall be your lamentation in the day of visitation, and of judgment, and of indignation: The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and my soul is not saved!

I think maybe it is always best to just remember nothing we have is actually ours not even our very lives because as King Benjamin said He is lending us breath moment to moment. And that should makes us give more thought to what would God have me do with His proprety? Please dont think I am condemning anyone here, I say this to myself more than anyone else.

Tim

[BenRaines]

King Benjamin's speech to his people just before his death is one of my favorite parts of the Book of Mormon if not the scriptures as a whole. I think he teaches us to be humble and to serve others. Much as Christ taught.

Ben Raines

[StrawberryFields]

Okay so here is another question.

If you have more than what you need should you.

1. Put 50% of it away and have fun with the other 50%

2. Use 20% to enrich your lifestyle and give the rest away helping others.

3. Live a modest lifestyle, give 50% of what is left to helping others and invest the rest for retirement.

[john doe]

Okay so here is another question.

If you have more than what you need should you.

1. Put 50% of it away and have fun with the other 50%

2. Use 20% to enrich your lifestyle and give the rest away helping others.

3. Live a modest lifestyle, give 50% of what is left to helping others and invest the rest for retirement.

Send all checks to:

John Doe

c/o ldstalk.com

email available for paypal deposit upon request

[pushka]

Okay so here is another question.

If you have more than what you need should you.

1. Put 50% of it away and have fun with the other 50%

2. Use 20% to enrich your lifestyle and give the rest away helping others.

3. Live a modest lifestyle, give 50% of what is left to helping others and invest the rest for retirement.

I don't think anybody should be told what they SHOULD do with their money, however much or little they have, although your 3rd option seems to be the most sensible given the choices you post.

I apologise for my earlier 'politically motivated' post regarding workers receiving more for the work they do than they currently receive...I do acknowledge the extra qualifications/skills which CEO's of companies and their white collar staff bring to a workplace in order to keep it afloat, and the extra stress felt by those people in relation to keeping the business successful, I just sometimes feel that workers ought to be appreciated a little more too.

I do not envy people who have more wealth than I have if they have worked to get it, I'm not keen on those I refer to as 'spongers' as in some lesser members of our Royal Family. I do believe that governments have lots to answer for in relation to the distribution of wealth throughout the world, and that world leaders ought to govern alongside each other in a more peaceful and unified way, in order to help those countries that are struggling to feed their people well.

I think more highly of wealthy people who contribute more to charities than I do of those that don't, and would like to think that I would be generous to the more needy if I was in their position. (Of course I do realise that we are not always told who/how much various celebrities contribute to charities etc.)

I hope I haven't hijacked the thread! Apologies if I have...I don't want to cause arguments!

[BenRaines]

Take someone like Warren Buffett. He was the wealthiest man in the world, Now it is Bill Gates, followed by a guy in Mexico and then Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett employes thousands. His has alread set up to give the majority to his estate to the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation, what a smart move to avoid a new level of management and its costs to manage his money. He is giving away 90% of his wealth, I think that is the number.

Bill & Melinda Gates have given Billions. Sure he has Billions more but has given freely.

I for one believe in a free economy and let everyone make what they are able. Americans are the most generous people in the world with their wealth. Yes they still have a lot but are most generous with it and the government is generous with our wealth too.

Ben Raines

[TimA.]

Take someone like Warren Buffett. He was the wealthiest man in the world, Now it is Bill Gates, followed by a guy in Mexico and then Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett employes thousands. His has alread set up to give the majority to his estate to the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation, what a smart move to avoid a new level of management and its costs to manage his money. He is giving away 90% of his wealth, I think that is the number.

Bill & Melinda Gates have given Billions. Sure he has Billions more but has given freely.

I for one believe in a free economy and let everyone make what they are able. Americans are the most generous people in the world with their wealth. Yes they still have a lot but are most generous with it and the government is generous with our wealth too.

Ben Raines

Ben as I read this it brought these verses to mind:

Mark 12:41-44 ¶ And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this apoor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

I am thankful for people in this world like Mr. Buffet and Mr and Mrs Gates and I think we all should be, they have used a portion the wealth they are stewards over to try and make the world a better place to live. They are recognized by the world as the generous people of good will that they are.

We note from these verses that the rich are not the ones that caught the attention of our Lord. It is willingness to give, "even of our living", that gets the attention of the Master here.

Tim

[tiancum]

i've read somewhere that Joseph Smith included this idea about excess to include the consumption of meat. that he abstained from meat, and encouraged others to do so as well, except in times of emergency, or great need.

i've always felt that the word of wisdom fit very well with the idea of vegetarianism...and i was not surprised to see that there is some note about j.smith making this connection also.

i don't have the source of these thoughts available, but it was interesting to discover anyway.

:)

Joseph never abstained totally from meat. There are many stories about him where he ate turkey, and other meats. He ate it when he had it.

The prophets have indeed spoken out on vegetarianism. do a search of LDS.org

As far as excess goes...

If the Lord asked us to give away everything we had tomorrow to someone HE chose...(maybe someone we felt didn't deserve it), could we do that?

Many prophets have had "big houses" and "nice cars" But they are dedicating what they have to the Lord.

That is, in essence, the Law of consecration.

Lehi was rich, but he was asked to leave it and he did quickly. His children were another story.

[Dr T]

It seems the more we make, the more goes to bills. What is this excess money you keep talking about (lol)