Having a struggle with someone in my ward caught up in perfectionism.

[carlimac]

I first have to say that this woman is a wonderful person who I *think* genuinely cares for people. But it seems like she's putting on a performance for the ward all the time. She is so caught up in being good that it is downright annoying. Is it possible to be just over-zealously good? To the point that it makes observers almost physically sick?

I honestly don't know how to handle it. My emotions range from awe to "oh gosh I just want to puke" as I watch her and listen to her comments at church. ( I know this is judgmental, but just so you know, I'm judgmental of myself, too and frankly, if this woman is setting celestial standards, I'm going to "you know where.") She devotes every second of every day serving, working, volunteering, visiting the downtrodden, carrying other people's babies around, getting up at 5:30 to read scriptures with her family, having elaborate FHE's with meaningful lessons Every. Single. Week! One day at church she ran almost a one woman show, speaking in church, teaching a lesson in SS, saying the prayer AND leading the music in RS.

The problem for me is not that she's doing all this but that she subtly and not-so-subtly lets you know about all she's doing. And she often uses her family as examples of righteousness in her comments in church. Today it struck a nerve with me as we talked in SS about teaching your children to work. She told how her children have to earn the lessons they take ( in this case it's dance lessons) by working so that they fully appreciate the opportunity to take those lessons. My kids take the same lessons ( her kids are my kids best friends) and I have forked out literally hundreds of $$ for those lessons without my kids "earning them". (I'm pretty sure my kids like the lessons as much as her's do.)

OK she is teaching them valuable lessons about money management. But why does it alternately make me feel like I'm mothering sloppily and then irked by her using that example in church in front of me? Is she trying to tell me I'm spoiling my kids? Does she think that? Or is she just too busy showing off her righteous skills to worry about what I think?

Petty of me? Yes! But honestly, being a good Mormon isn't a competition. And I always get the feeling from her that if she isn't the busiest mom in the ward with the craziest schedule, AND portrays that to everyone in full 3D action she's going to crumble into a state of self loathing and depression. Sigh! Life doesn't need to be that nuts to be acceptable to our Father in Heaven does it?

Edited October 28, 2013 by carlimac

[Maureen]

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is not true. She might be embellishing; a lot of people like to embellish.

M.

[skalenfehl]

Interesting post. The only thing I can respond with is to share a quote I once saw on a marquis sign.

"We don't see the world as it is. We see the world as we are."

[Quin]

Some people like that are my dearest friends: they are pure daring excitement, have lousy boundaries /who just love to share, and are super easy to love. Shazam! Sparkle sparkle sparkle.

Other people like that I don't have 2 seconds for: as they're just snotty, snarky, awfulness. I'd say narcissism run amok, but when isn't that the case with narcissism? Me me me me me.

Still others are sooooooo insecure, the only way they feel okay about their own lives is by one upping everyone else around them. I just feel sad for them, and move on.

As to if she's TRYING to make you feel bad... One of my favorite quotes is one about (paraphrase) if you take offe we where none is meant, you're a fool... And if you take offense when it IS meant, you're a bigger fool. (Which means I snicker a lot at PTA meetings when people get into their one upmanship put down game. Pun-Leeze. Try again, lady, and next time put some creativity into your put downs. Maybe I'll consider taking them seriously. < grin > or maybe not )

Oh! Oh! I forgot this quote:

"Never judge your insides by another person's outsides".

Edited October 27, 2013 by Quin
2nd quote

[Dravin]

OK she is teaching them valuable lessons about money management. But why does is alternately make me feel like I'm mothering sloppily and then feeling irked by her using that example in church in front of me?

Because for whatever reason you'd decided to judge yourself against her yardstick.

Is she trying to tell me I'm spoiling my kids? Does she think that? Or is she just too busy showing off her righteous skills to worry about what I think?

Or maybe she's just contributing her experiences to the lessons being discussed as is often done and quite often solicited, sharing how a principle has applied in your life is a stock aspect of LDS lessons. You kinda sound like someone complaining about the A student, "Why do they have to be so good at the subject? Why do they have to make everyone feel stupid and rub their understanding of the subject in everyone's face?" The idea that the complainer isn't the center of that person's universe and reason for doing things and that they are simply just doing their best to excel at the task and portion of life before them seems to just completely escape them.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Dravin

[carlimac]

Because for whatever reason you'd decided to judge yourself against her yardstick.

Or maybe she's just contributing her experiences to the lessons being discussed as is often done and quite often solicited, sharing how a principle has applied in your life is a stock aspect of LDS lessons. You kinda sound like someone complaining about the A student, "Why do they have to be so good at the subject? Why do they have to make everyone feel stupid and rub their understanding of the subject in everyone's face?" The idea that the complainer isn't the center of that person's universe and reason for doing things and that they are simply just doing their best to excel at the task and portion of life before them seems to just completely escape them.

Well, there is the A student who is good at the subject because they love it and have a keen mind. They go quietly about learning and absorbing the material without tooting their own horn. Then there is the A student who knows a lot about a subject but also makes sure everyone else knows they know it and when called upon in class ( at least minimum 3-5 comments per class) gives lengthy discourses about why and how they know the material and how they are applying it in their lives.

[Dravin]

Yes, how dare they answer questions when called upon in class! You do realize one of the big points of Church lessons is to discuss how to apply the material to our lives, right? What I see in this thread is you complaining that someone should hide their light under a bushel so you can feel better about your own insecurities.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Dravin

[carlimac]

Some people like that are my dearest friends: they are pure daring excitement, have lousy boundaries /who just love to share, and are super easy to love. Shazam! Sparkle sparkle sparkle.

Other people like that I don't have 2 seconds for: as they're just snotty, snarky, awfulness. I'd say narcissism run amok, but when isn't that the case with narcissism? Me me me me me.

Still others are sooooooo insecure, the only way they feel okay about their own lives is by one upping everyone else around them. I just feel sad for them, and move on.

As to if she's TRYING to make you feel bad... One of my favorite quotes is one about (paraphrase) if you take offe we where none is meant, you're a fool... And if you take offense when it IS meant, you're a bigger fool. (Which means I snicker a lot at PTA meetings when people get into their one upmanship put down game. Pun-Leeze. Try again, lady, and next time put some creativity into your put downs. Maybe I'll consider taking them seriously. < grin > or maybe not )

Oh! Oh! I forgot this quote:

"Never judge your insides by another person's outsides".

This person never fails to make my insides feel rotten to the core. They are a little rotten but she brings out the worst in me.

[carlimac]

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is not true. She might be embellishing; a lot of people like to embellish.

M.

I'm pretty sure it's all true. I just don't want to hear it. I want to plug along at my own natural pace rather than feeling pushed or pressured by someone else's. The fact that she is the mother of my kids' best friends means if I don't hear about it from the woman herself, I hear about it from my kids.

[Lakumi]

Sparkle sparkle sparkle.

someone finally says that and I can't give the proper rebuttal

[Guest]

What makes this world terrible is people who has to bring someone else down. When you're bad, especially very bad, somebody always finds a way to point it out and put you down. When you're good, especially very good, somebody always try to knock you down a peg or ten.

Who cares if she's tooting her own horn. Sit back, applause, and wish her well. Because, what's your other option, that you wish that her house of cards (if that is what it is) fall down all around her? Would that make you feel better?

Serve her. She probably needs it more than you know. Everything is not about you.

[NeuroTypical]

Sure is an awful lot of power to give to someone. Why are you giving so much power to this lady to drive you crazy? I mean, if she's your mom or sibling or something, that's one thing. But this is just some random lady in your ward? I don't get it.

[carlimac]

Yes, how dare they answer questions when called upon in class! You do realize one of the big points of Church lessons is to discuss how to apply the material to our lives, right? What I see in this thread is you complaining that someone should hide their light under a bushel so you can feel better about your own insecurities.

This is so far off base that I hardly even want to respond. You have missed the point. Do you want to know what the point is and try to understand my feelings on this or do you just want to spout off with your snarky remarks?

[Quin]

This person never fails to make my insides feel rotten to the core. They are a little rotten but she brings out the worst in me.

Ahhhhh... That's just the point though.

DON'T judge your insides by her outsides.

Q

[carlimac]

What makes this world terrible is people who has to bring someone else down. When you're bad, especially very bad, somebody always finds a way to point it out and put you down. When you're good, especially very good, somebody always try to knock you down a peg or ten.

Who cares if she's tooting her own horn. Sit back, applause, and wish her well. Because, what's your other option, that you wish that her house of cards (if that is what it is) fall down all around her? Would that make you feel better?

Serve her. She probably needs it more than you know. Everything is not about you.

Actually you're not too far from the truth. (Except the part about everything not being about me. It is. Didn't you know that?

What I have picked up about this woman is that she is basically very insecure. Hence her intense need to be recognized for all she is doing. So how do you serve someone who is a tornado who piles on so much into her life that she's hard to even relate to? Sometimes I let her just talk my ear off and monopolize my time. But most of the time I try almost subconsciously to keep my conversations with her short and to the point. I'm afraid it comes off as unfriendly on my part but I do have boundaries to protect.

[carlimac]

Sure is an awful lot of power to give to someone. Why are you giving so much power to this lady to drive you crazy? I mean, if she's your mom or sibling or something, that's one thing. But this is just some random lady in your ward? I don't get it.

She is my neighbor and the mother of my kids' best friends. Our kids are almost as close as siblings. They spend huge amounts of time together everyday both in school and out. I can only avoid her to a point before it's just rude. Believe me, I have my protective defenses up but sometimes there are chinks in my armor and I let it get to me. Today was one of those days.

[Lakumi]

This person never fails to make my insides feel rotten to the core. They are a little rotten but she brings out the worst in me.

everyone brings out the worst in me, but knowing this is the first step to coming to terms with it, and perhaps moving on

[carlimac]

Please someone tell me that you've run across this type before. Their aire of perfection and flaunting their living the gospel without any hang-ups or weaknesses hampers your own self esteem. Not only do they do everything, they know everything, too. Their enthusiasm is suffocating. They volunteer for everything to the point that you know you don't have to because Sister X will do it. And you're content to just sit back and let her do it because it really isn't a competition and by golly if she wants to do it so bad- let her. I know intellectually that I shouldn't compare myself to her but in practicality it's nearly impossible not to because of all the examples she tells about in church and and to me personally of her family doing all these great, noble things. She seems to have a compelling need to let us all know.

[Guest]

I'll be really honest with you. There was a lady like that in our ward when we moved in. When she'd comment in class, sitting there with her perfect husband and smiling and being her perfect self, I'd inwardly roll my eyes and think there's no way in the world anyone could be that pollyanna.

Then she was assigned to be my VT. I got to know her. I learned that she really is that earnest in her striving to be righteous. She is sincere. She also has weaknesses and struggles that only those who are closest to her know about. She's not perfect, but she tries really hard to be the best she can be, in spite of some very real challenges, like occasionally debilitating depression.

One more anecdote. I've been getting to know a new young mom in my ward. She's a sweetheart and trying hard to find her way, like all of us are. She confided to me once that it was hard for her to come to our Marriage and Family Relations Class, because one of my best friends makes her feel so inadequate. I asked her what she meant, and she said all of her comments about how she runs things in her house so perfectly, and her kids are so great, and they seem to really have it together make her feel like a failure in her roles. I had to kind of laugh, because what I know is that my friend is commenting on things she is trying, and reporting back about what's working. What no one else hears are all the things that aren't working, and some terrible stuff they're going through at home, and why they're having to try so hard. So my young friend sees a perfect mom who outshines her, when in fact my friend feels very inadequate herself, is really struggling with some things, and could use someone encouraging her and patting her on the back for what's going right.

So I agree with the sentiments on this thread that maybe if you take the focus off of how bad her efforts make you feel, and try to actually get to know her and maybe even be her friend, your heart could change. It's worth praying about, at least.

[Lakumi]

Please someone tell me that you've run across this type before. Their aire of perfection and flaunting their living the gospel without any hang-ups or weaknesses hampers your own self esteem. Not only do they do everything, they know everything, too. Their enthusiasm is suffocating. They volunteer for everything to the point that you know you don't have to because Sister X will do it. And you're content to just sit back and let her do it because it really isn't a competition and by golly if she wants to do it so bad- let her. I know intellectually that I shouldn't compare myself to her but in practicality it's nearly impossible not to because of all the examples she tells about in church and and to me personally of her family doing all these great, noble things. She seems to have a compelling need to let us all know.

People tell me I have a very "uncaring" aura about me, and rarely try and show off anything because their achievements mean little in my eyes.

While no one at church tried to "let me know" how great their family is (I think such a thing would be an odd thing for someone to just go up to an investigator and say, especially one without a family) I have met those sorts of people before.

Though church is really the only place where my cruel and spiteful thoughts go away for a short time, but I am pretty anti social and bring out one of the BJD's if I feel the need to be left alone:lol:

[LittleWyvern]

The problem for me is not that she's doing all this but that she subtly and not-so-subtly lets you know about all she's doing.

We have a word for that, it's called pride. Those who struggle with perfectionism can often fall victim to this kind of pride. Just remember that personal perfection is called personal for a reason: everybody's "perfect" is different.

[Dravin]

Do you want to know what the point is and try to understand my feelings on this or do you just want to spout off with your snarky remarks?

I understand your point. You're just taking it as a given that it must all be some sort of act to make you feel inferior (or showboat), that it is simply sincere effort is conspicuously absent in your post filled with a lot of detail about this women that isn't particularly relevant to the issue of how to avoid mentally competing with others in the Gospel. People tend to be conceited, myself included, by trying to place the acts of others as if they are all considered with them, their strengths, and their weaknesses in mind. It's one thing to say she does things and they annoy you, but you cast it as if she's doing them to one-up you is something else, and that really is the impression your OP gives.

You stated the truth of things earlier:

But honestly, being a good Mormon isn't a competition.

It takes two to compete, even if she is doing things with an eye of competing and demonstrating her winning the supposed game of being Mormon, ultimately it isn't a competition unless you join in on trying to keep score. And when you hear her example of how she applies gospel principles within her own family and you feel like a bad mom because you did it differently, that's you keeping score.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Dravin

[Guest]

Actually you're not too far from the truth. (Except the part about everything not being about me. It is. Didn't you know that?

What I have picked up about this woman is that she is basically very insecure. Hence her intense need to be recognized for all she is doing. So how do you serve someone who is a tornado who piles on so much into her life that she's hard to even relate to? Sometimes I let her just talk my ear off and monopolize my time. But most of the time I try almost subconsciously to keep my conversations with her short and to the point. I'm afraid it comes off as unfriendly on my part but I do have boundaries to protect.

If it was me, I'd ask her and her whole family to come over and help you with dinner.

You might say... anatess has gone nuts...

I haven't. This is my answer to most problems involving conflicts with friends. You won't believe how much working together in one kitchen can bring to a higher level of understanding and companionship. When you go to a Filipino party, you know who is not yet in the "circle" or who has a gripe because they ask what they can do to help or they sit back and wait to be called to dinner. :) Those who have that higher level of companionship just goes and does their thing in the kitchen, sometimes getting an debate going for using the wrong spoon. But everyone is free to be who they are... The real them, not the public face. Because they feel safe in that kitchen to be who they are without fear of getting thrown out the door.

Edited October 28, 2013 by anatess

[Guest]

Please someone tell me that you've run across this type before. Their aire of perfection and flaunting their living the gospel without any hang-ups or weaknesses hampers your own self esteem. Not only do they do everything, they know everything, too. Their enthusiasm is suffocating. They volunteer for everything to the point that you know you don't have to because Sister X will do it. And you're content to just sit back and let her do it because it really isn't a competition and by golly if she wants to do it so bad- let her. I know intellectually that I shouldn't compare myself to her but in practicality it's nearly impossible not to because of all the examples she tells about in church and and to me personally of her family doing all these great, noble things. She seems to have a compelling need to let us all know.

I know people who come off as perfect. Even those who brag and showcase. I've even heard that people think that about me. At least somebody told me that so-and-so said that about me. I'm not bothered by it because I feel that it is her problem until she comes to me and tells me about it herself instead of having someone else tell me as I know that it isn't my intention to come off as Miss Perfect.

[Lakumi]

If it was me, I'd ask her and her whole family to come over and help you with dinner.

You might say... anatess has gone nuts...

I haven't. This is my answer to most problems involving conflicts with friends. You won't believe how much working together in one kitchen can bring to a higher level of understanding and companionship. When you go to a Filipino party, you know who is not yet in the "circle" or who has a gripe because they ask what they can do to help or they sit back and wait to be called to dinner. :) Those who have that higher level of companionship just goes and does their thing in the kitchen, sometimes getting an debate going for using the wrong spoon. But everyone is free to be who they are... The real them, not the public face. Because they feel safe in that kitchen to be who they are without fear of getting thrown out the door.

Oh jeez, the kitchen brings out the worst in me, I go all Gordon Ramsay on people lol