Gun Control

[Blessed]

Yes, Outshined, I remember. I also remember that Jesus told Peter to put that sword away. :-)

[Outshined]

Yep, but he didn't say it was wrong to have it.

[Blessed]

You are correct, Outshined, but He did say, "But Jesus commanded him to return his sword, saying, He who taketh the sword shall perish with the sword." Mark 14:53

So you can keep your "sword." Just don't come running to me when you get poked by one.

[CrimsonKairos]

Comparing gun-related crimes from the USA and the UK is pointless. The population sizes are so different as to preclude any useful juxtaposition.

The difference between Americans and the British:

The British think 200 miles is a long distance;

Americans think 200 years is a long time. :)

Would Christ approve of me owning a gun, or of using it violently to preserve life and liberty? Ask the Israelites under Joshua. I seem to remember them entering the promised land with a bang...being commanded to exterminate entire cities and lands. Something like that.

[Dr T]

At one point he told them to only what? One tunic, one pair of sandals and a pen? You know what they say about a pen...

[CrimsonKairos]

...don't run while holding one (or scissors)!

Gwahahahahahaha!

[Dr T]

Good stuff CK.

[a-train]

Did these Brits not see the shooting in Manchester on Monday that I mentioned earlier in the thread? Or the racist shooting spree in London? Why are we still acting like shootings are so rare in the U.K. when a 16 year old kid smoked his 12 year old sister with an illegal firearm this very week in Manchester?!? He was on the front page of the BBC site.

Just a question: How many of the anti-gun people here have been a victim of a gun crime?

Me: Held at gun-point once, threatened with a gun in an attempted robbery, and lost my father to murderers who shot and robbed him

-a-train

[CrimsonKairos]

*CK clears his throat and makes sure everyone is listening...*

Booyah. B)

[Latter Days Guy]

Did these Brits not see the shooting in Manchester on Monday that I mentioned earlier in the thread? Or the racist shooting spree in London? Why are we still acting like shootings are so rare in the U.K. when a 16 year old kid smoked his 12 year old sister with an illegal firearm this very week in Manchester?!? He was on the front page of the BBC site.

Just a question: How many of the anti-gun people here have been a victim of a gun crime?

Me: Held at gun-point once, threatened with a gun in an attempted robbery, and lost my father to murderers who shot and robbed him

-a-train

Because shootings are rare in the UK. Like I have previously posted there was 50 gun related deaths in the UK in 2006, now compare that to the several thousand deaths in the same time period for the US.

Like someone has already said you cannot compare gun crime/culture in the UK with the US because we are such different cultures. You have the right to carry firearms, we do not. You feel safe because you have a gun, I feel save because I and 99% of the other people in the UK do not own a gun either. If it was legal for us to have guns in the UK, would I have one? Probably not, but then it would depend on where I was living and if gun crime was on the increase.

[BenRaines]

GB-UK. Stats are a little off. I posted earlier in the thread and the 53 deaths in UK by firearms was for fourth quarter 2006. 57 the previous quarter. Safe assumption that it was near 200 or more for the year. Still very much less per capita than the US.

Ben Raines

[Traveler]

If we are concerned about violence then we must understand that as long as incentives support violence or are interpreted by society to support violence then violence will continue with possible increases. Only when it is determined that the incentives against violence are sufficient will there be decreases.

Would you rather see a hero in you entertainment display a little violence against the deserving bad guys than a hero that is not quite as exciting? If you prefer a little violence then it is probably a good idea to blame guns or all the bad guys that misuse guns and act like you are not part of the enabling problem.

The Traveler

[Latter Days Guy]

GB-UK. Stats are a little off. I posted earlier in the thread and the 53 deaths in UK by firearms was for fourth quarter 2006. 57 the previous quarter. Safe assumption that it was near 200 or more for the year. Still very much less per capita than the US.

Ben Raines

Actually my stats are not wrong.

Gun crime in the UK is still rare with 50 deaths in 2005/2006 compared with 78 the year before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6386085.stm

The number of homicides committed with firearms has remained between a range of 46 and 97 for the past decade, standing at 50 in 2005/06 (a fall from 75 the previous year)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_..._United_Kingdom

Those who argue in defense of hand guns and say they should continue to be legal and easily obtained, in virtually unlimited numbers don’t have a good response to numbers such as these: in 2006, 46 people died in all of England as a result of shooting (this includes all guns, including handguns which are illegal in the U.K.). In the same period, in New York, which has about 20 percent of the population of the U.K had 579 gun deaths in 2006.

http://www.ihateitall.com/bm/politics/guns...ll-people.shtml

[CrimsonKairos]

I hardly think it's movies showing good guys enforcing the law with guns that leads to criminal violence.

How 'bout Rambo, Terminator, etc...? They don't really qualify as law enforcement in my book.

[Traveler]

I hardly think it's movies showing good guys enforcing the law with guns that leads to criminal violence.

How 'bout Rambo, Terminator, etc...? They don't really qualify as law enforcement in my book.

Often the only difference between the good guys and the bad guys is that the good guys are only violent against those that deserve it. If good guys rely on violence to enforce their beliefs - what then is the real difference? What is the incentive (perceived incentive) to end violence?

I would submit that to seek revenge or to seek harm of another in anger is evil regardless of the cause. For the most part it would seem that in our society the hero is not ready to face the adversary until they are angry and willing to be violent.

Especially is someone is armed with a weapon and with anger - it is more likely that an evil spirit will have more influence than a holy spirit.

The Traveler

[CrimsonKairos]

It's possible to be violent but not hateful.

Tracking someone down and executing them outside of the law is of course wrong.

I'm talking about movies like "Blackhawk Down" or "Braveheart." Yes, the "good guys" use weapons and violence to achieve their ends. However, it doesn't make me think, "Hey, I'm gonna' go snag a claymore and use it to rob that Wal-Mart!"

It does make me think that if an enemy is determined, armed and advancing, meeting them with force is a good idea.