What Is Anti-Mormon?

[Snow]

Restornu,

Sounds to me that someone is cutting and pasting from squirrely xtian websites too much without stopping to read just how goofy the quotes are. Take the absurd quote from Wescott. I know that in his day, he was a churchman or some note but now the guy just sounds like a sad clown. He thinks that the resurrection is better supported by evidence than any other historical event?

Excuse me but that is quite possibly one of the stupidist things ever said.

Think of the US revolution (which was history at the time Wescott was writing) There are countless accountsed contemporary, independent, verifiable, unbiased, eyewitnessed accounts of what happened from 1000's and 1000's of people.

On the other hand, the evidence for the ressurection = zero.

Gosh Restornu, zero vs countless. Your not a math guru are you?

[naomi]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 27 2004, 01:16 AM

Restornu,

Sounds to me that someone is cutting and pasting from squirrely xtian websites too much without stopping to read just how goofy the quotes are. Take the absurd quote from Wescott. I know that in his day, he was a churchman or some note but now the guy just sounds like a sad clown. He thinks that the resurrection is better supported by evidence than any other historical event?

Excuse me but that is quite possibly one of the stupidist things ever said.

Think of the US revolution (which was history at the time Wescott was writing) There are countless accountsed contemporary, independent, verifiable, unbiased, eyewitnessed accounts of what happened from 1000's and 1000's of people.

On the other hand, the evidence for the ressurection = zero.

Gosh Restornu, zero vs countless. Your not a math guru are you?

Poor Resty, bless her heart is a faithful LDS woman who has a learning disability. For her to cut and paste is remarkable all things considered. So please be nicer to her.

[Tr2]

I believe in and accept Christ based on faith, but am not afraid to state the truth of evidence regarding his existence. And, I believe in the BoM based upon my faith but also take comfort in the many non-archeological evidences for it.

Then why are you talking about of both sides of your mouth? Are you just interested in picking a fight? It certainly looks that way.

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by naomi@Mar 27 2004, 01:34 AM

Poor Resty, bless her heart is a faithful LDS woman who has a learning disability.  For her to cut and paste is remarkable all things considered.  So please be nicer to her.

Yeah right...I don't believe that bull for 1 sec.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by naomi+Mar 27 2004, 04:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (naomi @ Mar 27 2004, 04:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Mar 27 2004, 01:16 AM

Restornu,

Sounds to me that someone is cutting and pasting from squirrely xtian websites too much without stopping to read just how goofy the quotes are. Take the absurd quote from Wescott. I know that in his day, he was a churchman or some note but now the guy just sounds like a sad clown. He thinks that the resurrection is better supported by evidence than any other historical event?

Excuse me but that is quite possibly one of the stupidist things ever said.

Think of the US revolution (which was history at the time Wescott was writing) There are countless accountsed contemporary, independent, verifiable, unbiased, eyewitnessed accounts of what happened from 1000's and 1000's of people.

On the other hand, the evidence for the ressurection = zero.

Gosh Restornu, zero vs countless. Your not a math guru are you?

Poor Resty, bless her heart is a faithful LDS woman who has a learning disability. For her to cut and paste is remarkable all things considered. So please be nicer to her.

What relatoinship does she have to WhiteMountain?

[restornu]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 27 2004, 01:16 AM

Restornu,

Sounds to me that someone is cutting and pasting from squirrely xtian websites too much without stopping to read just how goofy the quotes are. Take the absurd quote from Wescott. I know that in his day, he was a churchman or some note but now the guy just sounds like a sad clown. He thinks that the resurrection is better supported by evidence than any other historical event?

Excuse me but that is quite possibly one of the stupidist things ever said.

Think of the US revolution (which was history at the time Wescott was writing) There are countless accountsed contemporary, independent, verifiable, unbiased, eyewitnessed accounts of what happened from 1000's and 1000's of people.

On the other hand, the evidence for the ressurection = zero.

Gosh Restornu, zero vs countless. Your not a math guru are you?

BF Westcott and FF Bruce are recognized scholars in the field whose writings have stood academic scrutiny for decades. Yet you consider pronouncing them "stupid" as a sufficient response.

Guess you just gotta keep them shoes dancing.

BTW, the quotes were not cut and pasted from a website. They were cut and pasted from personal research notes. I own the books they came from and I have read the entire books they came from. So your comment...

Sounds to me that someone is cutting and pasting from squirrely xtian websites too much without stopping to read just how goofy the quotes are.

... is a false conclusion.

Guess you just gotta keep them shoes dancing.

Restornu

[naomi]

Originally posted by Spencer+Mar 27 2004, 07:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spencer @ Mar 27 2004, 07:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -naomi@Mar 27 2004, 04:34 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Mar 27 2004, 01:16 AM

Restornu,

Sounds to me that someone is cutting and pasting from squirrely xtian websites too much without stopping to read just how goofy the quotes are. Take the absurd quote from Wescott. I know that in his day, he was a churchman or some note but now the guy just sounds like a sad clown. He thinks that the resurrection is better supported by evidence than any other historical event?

Excuse me but that is quite possibly one of the stupidist things ever said.

Think of the US revolution (which was history at the time Wescott was writing) There are countless accountsed contemporary, independent, verifiable, unbiased, eyewitnessed accounts of what happened from 1000's and 1000's of people.

On the other hand, the evidence for the ressurection = zero.

Gosh Restornu, zero vs countless. Your not a math guru are you?

Poor Resty, bless her heart is a faithful LDS woman who has a learning disability. For her to cut and paste is remarkable all things considered. So please be nicer to her.

What relatoinship does she have to WhiteMountain?

Beats me. She is a sweet spirit though.

[naomi]

Hi Spencer! How can I quote the last post only without the trail of stuff? I am having a Brain freeze at the moment? Nice Smilies.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 25 2004, 10:44 PM

John 10: 16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

this doesn't state any limit to whom He would go to....so that they also could hear his voice...

He is the Christ for the entire planet....

I understand the scripture you have quoted is often sited as evidence that Jesus visited other people. I'm sure you recognize how vague this scripture is. It fails to specify WHO these other "sheep" are. There is no basis to really know what he was talking about within the text of the scripture itself. Many biblical readers interpret the scripture to mean the "gentiles" of the middle east.

The next problem with your line of reasoning is that, until you come up with some actual reliable evidence, there is no basis to believe Jesus visited any particular group. A fish with twelve dots around it is hardly evidence without knowing the context or history behind the drawing.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 25 2004, 11:11 PM

Peace--you are driving me nuts!

LOL Sorry.

You seem to believe everything you hear. No offense, but your theories are really "out there today" girl! 

Yeah...I guess to a scientist it appears that way...LOL

There really were some studies...about Hagoth... B)

What studies? Unless you can site something.......?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Faerie@Mar 26 2004, 09:22 AM

How do you know someone wasn't taking a joy ride to Maui?? Maybe those glyphs were early "confetti" saing "Makalahaki was here"

Don't be so serious and PLEASE don't call Helaman "BC"

What? Helaman not BC?.............OK--open your BoM to Helaman, look at the date on the bottom right. What date do you see?

[Cal]

Originally posted by restornu+Mar 26 2004, 01:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (restornu @ Mar 26 2004, 01:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Snow@Mar 26 2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by -restornu@Mar 26 2004, 05:37 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Mar 25 2004, 10:07 PM

Restornu,

Do you think we just fell of the parsnip truck?

“It would never enter anyone’s head, to ask whether Jesus had lived, unless before asking the question the mind had been darkened by the wish that he had not lived.”

(Roderic Dunkerley, Beyond the Gospels, 29-30)

I think I that I can safely state, without fear of disagreement, that Roderic Dunkerley is a big freaking idiot.

Besides which Restornu, the point is not whether Jesus lived, the point is whether there is any evidence for it. You acted like there was but you were mistaken. Now, do you have some real evidence or are you going to put up more goofy quotes that make no sense.

Seriously, that quote was inane, demonstrably false and inane. Oh, did I already say inane?

There is more historical evidence for the life of Christ than most of the historical personages of comparable antiquity. Read Habermas' book and Please leave the snide comments behind.

ras--What? Evidence for Jesus----the ONLY thing that is purported to be written as a reference to Jesus by an independent historian alive at the time of Jesus was Josephus (and perhaps Titus--but that has big problems)-----------BUT, when you read Josephus' references to Jesus, it becomes MUCHO OBVIOUS that the references were put in AFTER the fact. They are all out of context with the rest of the text at that point, AND there were copies of the same Josephus texts that did not have the Jesus references. What does that tell you? Think hard!

The gospels were written well after the death of Jesus, and Paul's epistles, though written shortly after his death sound like the author knew virtually nothing of any real historical Jesus. So where does that leave you with all your supposed evidence of Jesus. Even if there was a man named Jesus, which I think there probably was, WHO he actually was is not evidenced by the gospels--these are all heresay, written well after the fact, by authors unknown.

I'm not saying all this proves he didn't live. You can't prove a negative. But your assertion that there is evidence he did is vacuous.

Bottom line--you truely have to have FAITH in Christ, because the evidence isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 26 2004, 02:19 PM

I'm wouldn't consider myself "anti-mormon", I'm just pro-bible. If they happen to be the same thing, then that's life.

TR2--your position makes ZERO logical sense--if you are going to doubt mormonism, then you have just as much, if not more reason to doubt the claims of the bible. At least mormons believe in something based on someone who can be proven to actually live--Joseph Smith. His claims may or may not be totally credible, but at least we know who he was, who wrote the mormon scriptures and who the early players in the formation of the church really were.

Can you say that about Jesus and his disciples, considering that the gospels are all heresay, and Paul, apparantly knew ZIP about the historical Jesus.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 26 2004, 06:32 PM

Interestingly, there is no (contemporary) historical evidence for the existence of Christ either.

Funny, I have been saying the same thing about the golden plates, but you don't seem to need evidence to believe in those! You may need to make up your mind why you believe what you believe.

Tr2--you are losing crediblility by the minute here. There is signed eyewitness testimony as to the existance of the Plates. What the plates were can be questioned, but not the fact that they existed.

[porterrockwell]

So Cal, IF evidence of the BOM surfaced, or was discovered , would it in fact give the BOM enough weight. Would it in fact start to tie the BOM to the Bible? The thing about most "other" peoples religious interpertation of the Bible(whether they like to admit it or not) is that it is based upon a concept that was derived MANY years after the death of the Apostles. There is also no outstanding evidence that the Trinity was the correct interpertation of the Godhead previous to the Council of Nicea. Thus I don't see a strong case on either. What kills me is that the evidence clearly points out that they institutionalized an Imperialistic concept of the Godhead, that in itself shaped "mainstream Christianity" to what it is and was throughout the great apostasy. In which case that scripture has equal weight for both sides. But the fact that there is a BOOK that we possess claiming to be another testament of Jesus Christ and his visit to the americas is pretty difficult to refute.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by naomi+Mar 27 2004, 01:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (naomi @ Mar 27 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Spencer@Mar 27 2004, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by -naomi@Mar 27 2004, 04:34 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Mar 27 2004, 01:16 AM

Restornu,

Sounds to me that someone is cutting and pasting from squirrely xtian websites too much without stopping to read just how goofy the quotes are. Take the absurd quote from Wescott. I know that in his day, he was a churchman or some note but now the guy just sounds like a sad clown. He thinks that the resurrection is better supported by evidence than any other historical event?

Excuse me but that is quite possibly one of the stupidist things ever said.

Think of the US revolution (which was history at the time Wescott was writing) There are countless accountsed contemporary, independent, verifiable, unbiased, eyewitnessed accounts of what happened from 1000's and 1000's of people.

On the other hand, the evidence for the ressurection = zero.

Gosh Restornu, zero vs countless. Your not a math guru are you?

Poor Resty, bless her heart is a faithful LDS woman who has a learning disability. For her to cut and paste is remarkable all things considered. So please be nicer to her.

What relatoinship does she have to WhiteMountain?

Beats me. She is a sweet spirit though.

Just very curious since they both come from the exact same ip. thought you may know since you seemed to know her.

Spencer

[naomi]

Originally posted by Spencer@Mar 27 2004, 01:49 PM

Just very curious since they both come from the exact same ip. thought you may know since you seemed to know her.

Spencer

Cutting off quotes is easy (d'oh) I do not know her personally but met her online. She is really challenged and flusters easily. And as those lovely Philosophy 101 classes teach, the reality of any other human being is debatable. Hope that sort of helps.

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by naomi+Mar 27 2004, 01:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (naomi @ Mar 27 2004, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Spencer@Mar 27 2004, 01:49 PM

Just very curious since they both come from the exact same ip. thought you may know since you seemed to know her.

Spencer

Cutting off quotes is easy (d'oh) I do not know her personally but met her online. She is really challenged and flusters easily. And as those lovely Philosophy 101 classes teach, the reality of any other human being is debatable. Hope that sort of helps.

Then how do you know "she's" not lying to you?

Once again, I don't believe this for 1 sec

[naomi]

Originally posted by AFDaw+Mar 27 2004, 02:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Mar 27 2004, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -naomi@Mar 27 2004, 01:04 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Spencer@Mar 27 2004, 01:49 PM

Just very curious since they both come from the exact same ip. thought you may know since you seemed to know her.

Spencer

Cutting off quotes is easy (d'oh) I do not know her personally but met her online. She is really challenged and flusters easily. And as those lovely Philosophy 101 classes teach, the reality of any other human being is debatable. Hope that sort of helps.

Then how do you know "she's" not lying to you?

Once again, I don't believe this for 1 sec

Her writing style has been fairly consistent. For example, cutting and pasting a lot of apparently tangential information (to avoid too many misspellings) is a way she gets her point across. She needs prayer rather than criticism IMO. And how sad to live paranoid when we have the Lord speaking to us. I prayed and asked if this was the real Restornu and got a spiritual confirmation. So I am puzzled about the venom you are spewing here and I am sort of offended. I just came back to full activity at church due to Restornu's guidance (in no small measure) and I feel you are doubting my testimony of the true church.

[Faerie]

sorry..thought you meant "bull crap" rofl..carry on

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by naomi+Mar 27 2004, 05:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (naomi @ Mar 27 2004, 05:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -AFDaw@Mar 27 2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by -naomi@Mar 27 2004, 01:04 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Spencer@Mar 27 2004, 01:49 PM

Just very curious since they both come from the exact same ip. thought you may know since you seemed to know her.

Spencer

Cutting off quotes is easy (d'oh) I do not know her personally but met her online. She is really challenged and flusters easily. And as those lovely Philosophy 101 classes teach, the reality of any other human being is debatable. Hope that sort of helps.

Then how do you know "she's" not lying to you?

Once again, I don't believe this for 1 sec

Her writing style has been fairly consistent. For example, cutting and pasting a lot of apparently tangential information (to avoid too many misspellings) is a way she gets her point across. She needs prayer rather than criticism IMO. And how sad to live paranoid when we have the Lord speaking to us. I prayed and asked if this was the real Restornu and got a spiritual confirmation. So I am puzzled about the venom you are spewing here and I am sort of offended. I just came back to full activity at church due to Restornu's guidance (in no small measure) and I feel you are doubting my testimony of the true church.

And how do you get your point across "Naomi"? By lying and deceiving? You may be fooling some around here, but I know who you are :)

[naomi]

Originally posted by AFDaw+Mar 27 2004, 07:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Mar 27 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -naomi@Mar 27 2004, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by -AFDaw@Mar 27 2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by -naomi@Mar 27 2004, 01:04 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Spencer@Mar 27 2004, 01:49 PM

Just very curious since they both come from the exact same ip. thought you may know since you seemed to know her.

Spencer

Cutting off quotes is easy (d'oh) I do not know her personally but met her online. She is really challenged and flusters easily. And as those lovely Philosophy 101 classes teach, the reality of any other human being is debatable. Hope that sort of helps.

Then how do you know "she's" not lying to you?

Once again, I don't believe this for 1 sec

Her writing style has been fairly consistent. For example, cutting and pasting a lot of apparently tangential information (to avoid too many misspellings) is a way she gets her point across. She needs prayer rather than criticism IMO. And how sad to live paranoid when we have the Lord speaking to us. I prayed and asked if this was the real Restornu and got a spiritual confirmation. So I am puzzled about the venom you are spewing here and I am sort of offended. I just came back to full activity at church due to Restornu's guidance (in no small measure) and I feel you are doubting my testimony of the true church.

And how do you get your point across "Naomi"? By lying and deceiving? You may be fooling some around here, but I know who you are :)

Who am I? Please let me know. I would be terribly curious to know my cyber alter identity (I did not know I had one but hopefully he or she is a lot more "fun" than I am).

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by naomi@Mar 27 2004, 07:30 PM

Who am I?  Please let me know.  I would be terribly curious to know my cyber alter identity (I did not know I had one but hopefully he or she is a lot more "fun" than I am). 

You're from CF. You use to be a member but you left the church, I can't remember why, not sure if you explained exactly, at least you didn't in the posts I read. Quite a few of us know that Restornu isn't an elderly LDS woman, so I don't know why you would lie about that. So what are your intentions?

[naomi]

Originally posted by AFDaw+Mar 27 2004, 08:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Mar 27 2004, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--naomi@Mar 27 2004, 07:30 PM

Who am I?  Please let me know.  I would be terribly curious to know my cyber alter identity (I did not know I had one but hopefully he or she is a lot more "fun" than I am).  

You're from CF. You use to be a member but you left the church, I can't remember why, not sure if you explained exactly, at least you didn't in the posts I read. Quite a few of us know that Restornu isn't an elderly LDS woman, so I don't know why you would lie about that. So what are your intentions?

She is in her mid 50's I think. Sorry, you have me confused with someone else.

[restornu]

Originally posted by naomi@Mar 27 2004, 08:30 PM

Who am I?  Please let me know.  I would be terribly curious to know my cyber alter identity (I did not know I had one but hopefully he or she is a lot more "fun" than I am). 

I love cats, but I have a dog's brain