"i Know Its True"

[Guest Shangdi Ai Ni]

Hello, I'm new to this whole forum thing and don't know if I'll be posting much, but recently I have been thinking about Mormonism a lot. I have been talking with missionaries from Utah and have really gotten into studying this religion. I am a follower of Jesus and do not claim any religion nor denomination, for these institutions (in my mind) always seek to decide for everyone the "correct" view and understanding of God. I was saved about five years ago through praying to God, reading the Bible and the witness of many Jesus followers.

I actually invited the missionaries over to my house not because I want to join the LDS church, but out of curiosity. Since giving my life to Christ, I have been greatly fascinated with the hundreds of religions that exist and why people are apart of them.

To get to the point, the one thing that has stuck out most to me about LDS is their testimony, that they know the church is the one true church, they know Joe was a prophet and that there are prophets today, etc. The three missionaries that visited me each slipped this in to the conversation when the dialogue got a little heated or difficult. And to me it felt quite strange. It was as though they thought that by repeating this mantra I would suddenly give up everything I have ever believed to join the LDS church.

I guess then my question centers around this: What would you who are LDS think if Christians/Jesus followers said to you that they know without a doubt Jesus has saved them from their sins, eternal Hell, separation from God, that they have been saved by grace apart from any works they can do, that with ever fiber of their being they know the LDS church is not the one true church, but that Jesus calls people every at all times apart from institutions to follow Him, there was no apostasy, etc, etc.? Would this do it for you? What is interesting is that everyone from every religion says they know their belief system to be the true one. Should our faith be on feelings, what people tell us, and what we think we know?

Just a thought I've had recently, really interested in your response. Thanks.

[BenRaines]

I would say, quoted from the eleventh article of faith.

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may"

Ben Raines

[Palerider]

I would say, quoted from the eleventh article of faith.

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may"

Ben Raines

I second that Ben......and if you dig into the forums I also think you will find a thread or two just like the one you started....... B)

[a-train]

Absolutely.

If God told you not to join the LDS church, believe Him. If he revealed to you that Joseph Smith was not a true prophet and that God had not spoken to him, believe it. Do whatever the LORD commands and believe all He tells you. I have full faith that He will never lead you astray.

I must say that the LORD has told me that He DID speak to Joseph Smith, that the Book of Mormon IS true, that Jesus of Nazereth IS the Messiah, and many other great things. I will make no assumption that you are anything less than completely honest and full of integrity. Do as the LORD commands.

As for me, I intend to do the same and until the LORD tells me otherwise I will believe what he has already told me and continues to tell me, that the LDS message is true.

GOD BLESS

-a-train

PS yeah, there already was a thread for this.

[Snow]

I guess then my question centers around this: What would you who are LDS think if Christians/Jesus followers said to you that they know without a doubt Jesus has saved them from their sins, eternal Hell, separation from God, that they have been saved by grace apart from any works they can do, that with ever fiber of their being they know the LDS church is not the one true church, but that Jesus calls people every at all times apart from institutions to follow Him, there was no apostasy, etc, etc.? Would this do it for you? What is interesting is that everyone from every religion says they know their belief system to be the true one. Should our faith be on feelings, what people tell us, and what we think we know?

Just a thought I've had recently, really interested in your response. Thanks.

I'd say fine.

But what I want to know from you is - are you referring to yourself? Do you know the Church of Jesus Christ to be untrue? How did you come by such knowledge?

[BenRaines]

Snow, long time no see. Welcome back

Ben Raines

[Snow]

Snow, long time no see. Welcome back

Ben Raines

Thank you.

I still read the board occassionally. Nice to see my old friends.

[LukeAir2006]

[Guest Username-Removed]

Shangdi Ai Ni,

I dont believe when most people say "I know it to be true" that they are trying to tear down someone elses belief.

You said, "It was as though they thought that by repeating this mantra I would suddenly give up everything I have ever believed to join the LDS church"

Actually, for most (and it is certainly for me) we indeed are not trying to offend. When something is given by the spirit, such as the truth of the gospel, and the truth of Joseph Smith, we not only enjoy sharing it with others; our testimony of its truthfulness is relived, expanded and reconfirmed. Its exciting to see others when they feel as we do, when they feel the spirit of truth too, from what we say.

It is not we that expect you to " give up everything (you) have ever believed ". I believe much truth is found everywhere, in many religions and in many experiences in life. However, once you have found, discovered, and partaken of the sheer concentration of truth found in the LDS church, you may also realize that it is true for you as well. After all, if such a place existed, and was indeed created by God, isnt it worth a second look - especially if a person was looking for more truth to begin with?

[Outshined]

What would you who are LDS think if Christians/Jesus followers said to you that they know without a doubt Jesus has saved them from their sins, eternal Hell, separation from God, that they have been saved by grace apart from any works they can do

A local minister told me this a few years ago. He said that since he "accepted Christ", he can rape, steal, kill children, or anything else he wants to do and is still assured salvation.

[Guest mamacat]

<div class='quotemain'>

What would you who are LDS think if Christians/Jesus followers said to you that they know without a doubt Jesus has saved them from their sins, eternal Hell, separation from God, that they have been saved by grace apart from any works they can do

A local minister told me this a few years ago. He said that since he "accepted Christ", he can rape, steal, kill children, or anything else he wants to do and is still assured salvation.

sounds rather like my ex-husband.

[a-train]

Outshined,

Was this in the inner city?

-a-train

[Outshined]

Outshined,

Was this in the inner city?

-a-train

No, it's a large suburban Baptist church about a mile from my house. The scary part is that 1. he was serious, and 2. this is the man teaching an entire congregation the same thing.

I've actually heard the same sort of thing from a number of evangelicals. It's referred to as "once in grace, always in grace" doctrine.

[roman]

<div class='quotemain'>

What would you who are LDS think if Christians/Jesus followers said to you that they know without a doubt Jesus has saved them from their sins, eternal Hell, separation from God, that they have been saved by grace apart from any works they can do

A local minister told me this a few years ago. He said that since he "accepted Christ", he can rape, steal, kill children, or anything else he wants to do and is still assured salvation.

The minister is either crazy

Your making this all up

Your taking it out of Context

Either way its all wack

Its like me reporting that a TBM told me I must accept JS and practice polygamy to be saved -------and my uncle did tell me that

[Outshined]

sounds rather like my ex-husband.

I just noticed this post. Were you joking, or is he another one of the evangelical types who believe this?

[Guest mamacat]

not joking. everything he does is justified by God. even hating God, as he often is wont to do, since God doesn't give him more money, or he feels s****** by God, since God gives basketball players enormous salaries, that they don't deserve (this has a racial tinge), esp as they haven't studied as much as he has in school...etc etc etc etc etc.....

never mind that he is very highly intelligent, a good mind, a well functioning body, a decent job -- he simply hates, everything, most of the time, it seems. and feels that God justifies his doing so.

but yes, he accepted JC as his savior, did baptism, and this exonerates all the evil he feels is his right to inflict, and that includes whatever he desires or has the will to do. even murder, so he has stated.

[Guest Username-Removed]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

What would you who are LDS think if Christians/Jesus followers said to you that they know without a doubt Jesus has saved them from their sins, eternal Hell, separation from God, that they have been saved by grace apart from any works they can do

A local minister told me this a few years ago. He said that since he "accepted Christ", he can rape, steal, kill children, or anything else he wants to do and is still assured salvation.

The minister is either crazy

Your making this all up

Your taking it out of Context

Either way its all wack

Its like me reporting that a TBM told me I must accept JS and practice polygamy to be saved -------and my uncle did tell me that

Here is a really good reference to the true meaning of the "calling and election made sure". There are some very good scriptural references including some from the New Testament.

LDS Website:Calling & Election

[Outshined]

Apparently no one has told roman that "ignore" means his posts don't show up on my computer. I don't see anything he posts until you quote his nonsense; so don't. I can see when he is on the board or has posted, but his posts say only: 'You have chosen to ignore all posts from: roman.' That rules. We do not communicate. Period. I prefer it that way, as he is only here for contention. I have better things to do than read anything he cares to type.

And look, it's more false accusations and conjecture. No surprise. If you can't deal with it, accuse them of lying... Foolishness. In any case, the minister is not "crazy", and I'm sure his credentials are much more in order than roman's. He is simply an evangelical, and it is a common belief among them. Perhaps not in roman's particular little sect, but it is among others, like the Baptists.

For the last time: roman, do not address me in any way. Ever. I do not respect you or your opinions, and have you on ignore for that reason. Thank you.

And I consider "calling and election made sure" a very different thing than the evangelical "once in grace" belief.

but yes, he accepted JC as his savior, did baptism, and this exonerates all the evil he feels is his right to inflict, and that includes whatever he desires or has the will to do. even murder, so he has stated.

Exactly. I have a former SIL who follows that belief as well. Scary and sad.

[roman]

Boy for being on ignore-------------which obviously I wasn't--------------i sure get some excited.

the reason some are so worked up is because I caugth them in untruths------posted several times that they could not defend or prove

now just because I hooked onto a certain post in now way means that i was ONLY addressing the author--------------------I mean this is an OPEN forum. Geezzz the simplest thing get by some.

I ain't addressing any one person here Outshined flat out got caught with his pants down in falsehoods ---------false agruments and repeated them often. He doesn't like it that he got caught------he dug the hole not me-----he jumped in-------------------no one pushed him.

Now to the minister with the wacked out view. That is NOT a typical Evag. view[another wrong statement by someone} One living with that view -------is on the outher fringe of theolgical understanding of what forgiveness is. And has no understanding of grace

I can even look down and see that someone is reading this post after I post it------------------on ignore---------I doubt it ---so I will do it---------Ignore button here I come

[Outshined]

Here is a really good reference to the true meaning of the "calling and election made sure". There are some very good scriptural references including some from the New Testament.

LDS Website:Calling & Election

Again, I see a very large difference in the teachings. "Once in grace" teaches that once you are "saved", you can do anything you want, no matter how bad, and never fear loss of salvation. It is a very common belief among evangelicals, especially Baptists here in the south; I know of many churches who teach this.

Some reading:

http://www.white-fields.org/ibs/onceingrace.html

[Traveler]

Apparently no one has told roman that "ignore" means his posts don't show up on my computer. I don't see anything he posts until you quote his nonsense; so don't. I can see when he is on the board or has posted, but his posts say only: 'You have chosen to ignore all posts from: roman.' That rules. We do not communicate. Period. I prefer it that way, as he is only here for contention. I have better things to do than read anything he cares to type.

And look, it's more false accusations and conjecture. No surprise. If you can't deal with it, accuse them of lying... Foolishness. In any case, the minister is not "crazy", and I'm sure his credentials are much more in order than roman's. He is simply an evangelical, and it is a common belief among them. Perhaps not in roman's particular little sect, but it is among others, like the Baptists.

For the last time: roman, do not address me in any way. Ever. I do not respect you or your opinions, and have you on ignore for that reason. Thank you.

And I consider "calling and election made sure" a very different thing than the evangelical "once in grace" belief.

<div class='quotemain'>

but yes, he accepted JC as his savior, did baptism, and this exonerates all the evil he feels is his right to inflict, and that includes whatever he desires or has the will to do. even murder, so he has stated.

Exactly. I have a former SIL who follows that belief as well. Scary and sad.

It appears that you and I have some things in common. Some times the things a person does thunders so laud that you can't hear a word they are saying.

The Traveler

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

What would you who are LDS think if Christians/Jesus followers said to you that they know without a doubt Jesus has saved them from their sins, eternal Hell, separation from God, that they have been saved by grace apart from any works they can do

A local minister told me this a few years ago. He said that since he "accepted Christ", he can rape, steal, kill children, or anything else he wants to do and is still assured salvation.

My father was Baptist minister, he burned me with ciggiretts,(to teach me the pain and fear of Hell), he held our heads under water,(to see if we were in the spirit), he beat us, was an alcoholic, and he took my virginity when I was 12 years old....all while preaching the gosple of grace! I thank God every day that I found the LDS church, and my kids will never be subjected to what I saw growing up!!!!!!!

[Dr T]

Do not blame the Baptist church for the atrocities it's members carried out. Those behaviors are not of God.

[Guest Yediyd]

Outshined,

Was this in the inner city?

-a-train

It's hard for you to believe, A-train, but I was raised in this kind of church...And we were taught to avoid the Mormons AT ALL COST, I think that was my motivation for investigating this church, I wanted to see what they were so afraid of, ( and maybe...a little rebellion contributed to my decision to invite the missionaries into my house), but I will never regret my decision to convert...I've finally found a God I can trust! I spent my whole life confused about a god who would "save" someone, then allow him to hurt his family so bad, and let it all fall under "grace". ICKY!

[Dr T]

but I will never regret my decision to convert